Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[buffy9]

Would a Ghostbat be able to embark from a Canberra LHD? now that would be something.

I was wondering why the cancellation of the MQ-9b Skyguardian was cancelled?
Would be great to have the sea guardian able to embark from the Canberra class to proved surveillance and even strike options.

could this be a possible asset ?

I doubt the Ghostbat (in its current form) could take off from an LHD - it is not a STOVL aircraft and many of the reasons for not pursuing the F-35B exist for a Canberra launched MQ-28 as well.

The MQ-9B would never have deployed from the LHDs, it would have required a base ashore. The only platform that could maybe do so is the STOL version of the MQ-9, which notably lacks the 'vertical' part to actually recover it efficiently. In any case, these drones arguably aren't survivable in a modern environment (LHD or not..) and would take up a decent chunk of the hangar for their use.

The LHDs can currently field the Tiger ARH and Camcopters (?) for ISR, with Apache w/ Longbow and Integrators (?) in the future also. If the goal is providing surveillance and strike options, in an amphibious context*, there are means to do that.

*The LHDs are also amphibious ships. They can mount strikes with rotary-winged aviation sure, they're flexible, but they aren't an aircraft carrier in the traditional sense. Fitting them to do so isn't also a matter of just buying the drones - the ships would need major changes, and an entire system set up that would detract from their amphibious role. Drone carriers, as a concept, have also never been tested.

 

[Stampede]

I doubt the Ghostbat (in its current form) could take off from an LHD - it is not a STOVL aircraft and many of the reasons for not pursuing the F-35B exist for the MQ-28 exist as well.

The MQ-9B would never have deployed from the LHDs, it would have required a base ashore. The only platform that could maybe do so is the STOL version of the MQ-9, which notably lacks the 'vertical' part to actually recover it efficiently. In any case, these drones arguably aren't survivable in a modern environment (LHD or not..) and would take up a decent chunk of the hangar for their use.

The LHDs can currently field the Tiger ARH and Camcopters (?) for ISR, with Apache w/ Longbow and Integrators (?) in the future also. If the goal is providing surveillance and strike options, in an amphibious context*, there are means to do that.

*The LHDs are also amphibious ships. They can mount strikes with rotary-winged aviation sure, they're flexible, but they aren't an aircraft carrier in the traditional sense. Fitting them to do so isn't also a matter of just buying the drones - the ships would need major changes, and an entire system set up that would detract from their amphibious role. Drone carriers, as a concept, have also never been tested.

This space will evolve as evident on Türkiye's TCG Anadolu.

Turkiye's Drone Carrier TCG Anadolu Starts Official Sea Trials - Naval News

The Turkish Navy's future LHD, TCG Anadolu, was spotted at sea on June 20, 2022. The officials confirmed that the LHD has begun sea trials.

www.navalnews.com

Will watch with interest if the ADF sees a future in this space.

Cheers S

 

[Redlands18]

Australia – Advanced Anti-Radiation Guided Missiles- Extended Range (AARGM-ERs) | Defense Security Cooperation Agency (dsca.mil)
Australia has been cleared to acquire the AARGM-ERs for its Growler fleet.
Commonwealth commits to RAAF Growler upgrade | ADBR
This would be part of the recently announced $2B fleet upgrade, to keep pace with the USN fleet.

 

[Redlands18]

New Australian-built armed drone unveiled at Avalon - Australian Defence Magazine
Avalon Air Show opened today Tues 28/2.
The first big news story to break was, the Styx armed VTOL UAV being developed by BAE Systems Australia and Perth Based company, Innovaero.

 

[Redlands18]

New Australian-built armed drone unveiled at Avalon - Australian Defence Magazine
Avalon Air Show opened today Tues 28/2.
The first big news story to break was, the Styx armed VTOL UAV being developed by BAE Systems Australia and Perth Based company, Innovaero.

Lockheed Martin hopes to deliver more F-35s to Australia (msn.com)
A further update, Marles has said in a pre-airshow speech today that the DSR will be released in April, Albanese had said last week, before the May Budget, so no real surprise.

 

[Bob53]

A slightly better image attached. I can see utlitity for this type of drones across the ADF services. If it could be landed on a Arafura that would be an interesting surveillance capability Without the need to use a P8 or Triton.

 

[buffy9]

New Australian-built armed drone unveiled at Avalon - Australian Defence Magazine
Avalon Air Show opened today Tues 28/2.
The first big news story to break was, the Styx armed VTOL UAV being developed by BAE Systems Australia and Perth Based company, Innovaero.

A slightly better image attached. I can see utlitity for this type of drones across the ADF services. If it could be landed on a Arafura that would be an interesting surveillance capability Without the need to use a P8 or Triton.View attachment 50090
View attachment 50091

Its very interesting to think of MUM-T with regards to this and the Apache operating together; similar to manned fighters and the MQ-28. Being able to operate out of the same heliport might also have its advantages.

Its still early days though. Its a pitch prior to the DSR being released and probably leveraging SkyGuardian being cancelled (even though they do not necessarily fill the same niche).

I'd be interested to know whether it predates events elsewhere in the world, possibly leveraging the publicity of the TB2 and/or Harop.

 

[Bob53]

Well the Styx is another Australian design along with Ghost Bat according to the release so I’m sure that would be an attractive point for the gov of the day. Regardless of the drone chosen, it sounds certain the ADF is going to get long range armed drones possibly across all 3 services. I read elsewhere here on the ADF thread, that rumours are circulating the Triton may be cancelled in favour of an armed alternative.

 

[Reptilia]

Be interesting to see what the real cost is, if it’s close to 10 mill that would seem quite expensive. The closest comparison would be the Bayraktar tb2 which is just under 5 mill. no runway the only significant difference.

 

[Reptilia]

video of the bae strix

 

[Stampede]

video of the bae strix

VTOL is a game changer.
If they can make this work both on land and at sea it will be a go to platform for many duties.

Containerised and deployable, what a package!

Best of luck with the development.

Cheers S

 

[Maranoa]

If BAE Systems Australia has been reported correctly and the Strix will be in the $AUD10 million range that in my humble opinion is just too dear for an attritable ISR platform with a minor secondary strike capability. That type of money buys a couple of BGM-109s (five or six) and even one or two RIM-174 SM6 or similar. People seem to be forgetting that these systems were meant to be 'cheap' not ten or eleven to the F-35A in dollar terms.

 

[Reptilia]

A smaller 2 rotor or single rear motor runway version is always a possibility. Having 4 is obviously costly.

 

[WaveWalker]

I doubt it. This has been designed to meet a requirement, and was probably the reason why the Reaper was cancelled. Newer tech and VTOL, no point in having an airfield dependent UAV in the modern world.

 

[Reptilia]

Who said airfield?, we have 2 lhds…

 

[seaspear]

This recent article on drone warfare in Ukraine suggests that there are a widespread use of drones of different capabilities and purpose ,but there are no conventions on their use and it might be possible to remove the need for operators of the drones in future
Ukraine’s War Brings Autonomous Weapons to the Front Lines | WIRED
This article suggests that most cheap drones used in Ukraine are Chinese and this company has the ability to hack these drones
The Ukraine-Russia Drone War Is Crowdsourced and Made in China (foreignpolicy.com)

 

[John Fedup]

This recent article on drone warfare in Ukraine suggests that there are a widespread use of drones of different capabilities and purpose ,but there are no conventions on their use and it might be possible to remove the need for operators of the drones in future
Ukraine’s War Brings Autonomous Weapons to the Front Lines | WIRED
This article suggests that most cheap drones used in Ukraine are Chinese and this company has the ability to hack these drones
The Ukraine-Russia Drone War Is Crowdsourced and Made in China (foreignpolicy.com)

AI controlled drones, this is a genie that is out of the box and like nukes, they won't be leaving. Drones will become more advanced and their use more frequent. As for DJI, they will obey any order the CCP gives even if it means a total loss of their commercial market (in the West anyway). Just my two cents.

 

[swerve]

I doubt it. This has been designed to meet a requirement, and was probably the reason why the Reaper was cancelled. Newer tech and VTOL, no point in having an airfield dependent UAV in the modern world.

How do you get a small or rotary-wing UAV a few thousand km from home or doing persistent watching of an area?

Not all UAVs are for battlefield use.

 

[WaveWalker]

On the back of a truck in the container shown and launched within range for the task. If it can’t go far enough there are other assets that can be used.

 

[swerve]

Yes - such as UAVs that need a runway. That's the point.