Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

seaspear

Active Member
This article goes into some detail about Russias newest drone and its roles and capabilities
This is a comparison of other drones also from Russia
These articles might suggest the pathway of the 'Loyal Wingman" program
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
The full potential of AI has yet to be realised. Really just about anything that flies, swims or moves can utilise AI. The AI brain itself doesn't even need to be physically inserted into the platform it is controlling. Remotely controlled aircraft such as the Triton or SkyGuardian could be controlled by AI without any modification to the airframe itself.

So when you read stories like this just remember that if it can be flown remotely it could potentially be flown by AI.


I can't think of any reason AI could not be fitted into missiles, seamines, torpedos, bombs or other munitions either. Imagine a cruise missile with full situational awareness weaving its way through your air defences. Scary stuff really.
 
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spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Loyal Wingman's progress is encouraging, but it's bit early to say to tout it as a success; I believe they have done less than a dozen flights so far.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Loyal Wingman's progress is encouraging, but it's bit early to say to tout it as a success; I believe they have done less than a dozen flights so far.
Indeed, it’s technological achievements are hardly on the scale of say Gremlin for instance…
 

76mmGuns

Active Member
Loyal Wingman's progress is encouraging, but it's bit early to say to tout it as a success; I believe they have done less than a dozen flights so far.
Online reports say it could be linked with E7 Wedgetails and P8 Poseidens. I wonder why the LW isn't bigger, for longer range. It can keep up with a F-35/F-18, but not anything else. Perhaps it's early days and after the prototypes are done, they'll make larger versions, with both more fuel and internal weapons?

 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Online reports say it could be linked with E7 Wedgetails and P8 Poseidens. I wonder why the LW isn't bigger, for longer range. It can keep up with a F-35/F-18, but not anything else. Perhaps it's early days and after the prototypes are done, they'll make larger versions, with both more fuel and internal weapons?

Because its an experimental proof of concept program, that is why. I posted the official RAAF description earlier in the thread. Read that instead of trying to insinuate something that is not there.
 

Zorborg

New Member
Perhaps it's early days and after the prototypes are done, they'll make larger versions
To save this topic from passive aggressive mod comments, I'll summarize: Loyal Wingman is a test program. Only six have been ordered.
I too share in the skeptisism and hope of some users here that Loyal Wingman actually has some utility and capability beyond buzzwords, and I too share in the hope that only a small number of Loyal Wingmans are made, in the hope that a larger and more useful aircraft is born.

"However, the recent FSP2020 document does not specifically mention F-35s, instead referring to an ‘additional air combat capability’ from around 2025. The funding for this capability is projected to be between $4.5 and $6.7 billion, but is separate to funding for the RAAF’s Teaming Air Vehicles (Boeing Loyal Wingman) program, which will see between $7.4 and $11 billion spent from around 2027. "
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
To save this topic from passive aggressive mod comments, I'll summarize: Loyal Wingman is a test program. Only six have been ordered.
I too share in the skeptisism and hope of some users here that Loyal Wingman actually has some utility and capability beyond buzzwords, and I too share in the hope that only a small number of Loyal Wingmans are made, in the hope that a larger and more useful aircraft is born.

"However, the recent FSP2020 document does not specifically mention F-35s, instead referring to an ‘additional air combat capability’ from around 2025. The funding for this capability is projected to be between $4.5 and $6.7 billion, but is separate to funding for the RAAF’s Teaming Air Vehicles (Boeing Loyal Wingman) program, which will see between $7.4 and $11 billion spent from around 2027. "
FYI this particular Mod doesn't do passive aggressive. I just tell it as it is.

You are a newbie here so I strongly suggest that you read the rules. This is a professional defence forum and we have standards that the forum owner requires all posters to follow and the Moderators to ensure that the standards are adhered to.
 

cdxbow

Well-Known Member
Nice rendering of the RAAF loyal wingman from all angles, It 'looks' accurate compared with published images. The artist has rendered what appears to be a central bay.

loyawingman.jpg

The 3D model the image is based on is available for free from here - Boeing Loyal Wingman Drone by mech-G - Thingiverse There are instructions how to 3D print the model but nothing of it's provenance.
 

cdxbow

Well-Known Member
More Loyal Wingman. The Strategist has an article looking at it's performance. Design of Boeing’s loyal wingman gives clues about performance and roles | The Strategist (aspistrategist.org.au) He does comment on the apparent payload bay doors, which he says are for 'stores' 1.8m long. That's only about half the length in the illustration (previous post). He estimate it's weight to be only 3 ton and maximum speed on the level to be high subsonic.

I thought this was interesting:
'The ATS is 11.6 metres long, which reveals the dispersal mode: it will fit in a standard 40-foot (12.2-metre) shipping container. The wing is a single piece with a span of 7.3 metres, clearly designed to lift off and lay in the same container.'
 

the road runner

Active Member
I know there is a few assumptions by ASPI .... A 1.8 meter long weapons bay i assume would only be able to carry SDB's ...You would not fit an AMRAAM or Aim 9X Air to Air missile in that 1.8 meter weapons bay.. Guess time will tell how the program pans out as to if Australia ends up purchasing any loyal wingman in large numbers AND if weapons bays can be enlarged to 3- 4 meters to fit Air to Air missiles in them
Time will tell !
 

MARKMILES77

Active Member
I know there is a few assumptions by ASPI .... A 1.8 meter long weapons bay i assume would only be able to carry SDB's ...You would not fit an AMRAAM or Aim 9X Air to Air missile in that 1.8 meter weapons bay.. Guess time will tell how the program pans out as to if Australia ends up purchasing any loyal wingman in large numbers AND if weapons bays can be enlarged to 3- 4 meters to fit Air to Air missiles in them
Time will tell !
There are a growing number of potential weapons in the 1.8 metre class.
SDB, Brimstone and SPEAR III for example in the Air to Ground role.
If "Peregrine" comes to fruition then a suitable medium range Air to Air Missile will also be available.
 

cdxbow

Well-Known Member
There are a growing number of potential weapons in the 1.8 metre class.
SDB, Brimstone and SPEAR III for example in the Air to Ground role.
If "Peregrine" comes to fruition then a suitable medium range Air to Air Missile will also be available.
The length of the bay doors appear to be around 3m on the models, maybe the bay is internally restricted to 1.8m length. We will see.

I enjoyed this one, also about the LW; Loyal wingmen could be the last aircraft standing in a future conflict | The Strategist (aspistrategist.org.au)
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The length of the bay doors appear to be around 3m on the models, maybe the bay is internally restricted to 1.8m length. We will see.

I enjoyed this one, also about the LW; Loyal wingmen could be the last aircraft standing in a future conflict | The Strategist (aspistrategist.org.au)
The Loyal Wingman a proof of concept program. There's no intention for it to go into combat. However if it is decided to advance to an operational program then that we be informed by the learnings from the Loyal Wingman program. This has to be a crawl, walk, run process otherwise the probability of failure is to risky. Loyal Wingman is IIRC subsonic, but for such a capability to work with the F-35, it must have supersonic and supercruise capability, as well as a similar speed and and combat radius to the F-35. Otherwise it's a waste of time and treasure.
 
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