Covid-19 pandemic & Fake News - How you can help

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
I think you can kill the mask debate by looking at our very public study groups - GOP and the Trump administration have been very lax on basic measures like distancing and mask wearing vs the Democratic parties very strong "on message" stance with masks etc.


The sheer number of infections in the GOP should give you at least an anecdotal confirmation.


On the UK and the Pfizer vaccine, the NHS have already been in contact with my mother to line her up. We had a bit of back and forth and I've managed to persuade her that getting vaccinated is a Good Thing. Key workers and the oldest down will hopefully save lives, and certainly when it comes to care homes, some relatives may live to see a couple more Christmases.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I've already seen the odd idiot on Facebook here claiming that the vaccine will give you Aids. They've been shut down reasonably quickly too by fellow Kiwis with some very direct Kiwi language. We won't be getting the vaccine until the new year and it will be going to the frontline border and quarantine personnel first.

With the summer break over Christmas and New Year coming, most of the country will be on the move. The government has started a media campaign to reinforce the message about using the government COVID-19 tracing app, basic hand hygiene, and compulsory mask usage on public transport. We are being told if we fail to follow the guidelines, we'll risk losing summer. No beaches, no watching the cricket, no live concerts.

We understand the risks and costs of COVID-19 escaping from the Managed Isolation Quarantine Facilities because that was the cause of the August outbreak in Auckland earlier this year.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
I've already seen the odd idiot on Facebook here claiming that the vaccine will give you Aids. They've been shut down reasonably quickly too by fellow Kiwis with some very direct Kiwi language. We won't be getting the vaccine until the new year and it will be going to the frontline border and quarantine personnel first.

With the summer break over Christmas and New Year coming, most of the country will be on the move. The government has started a media campaign to reinforce the message about using the government COVID-19 tracing app, basic hand hygiene, and compulsory mask usage on public transport. We are being told if we fail to follow the guidelines, we'll risk losing summer. No beaches, no watching the cricket, no live concerts.

We understand the risks and costs of COVID-19 escaping from the Managed Isolation Quarantine Facilities because that was the cause of the August outbreak in Auckland earlier this year.
you've got the advantage of time - Covid is pretty much sorted in Kiwi-land in terms of daily infection rates - no reason at all to hurry into a vaccination program - definitely, get one done but you can literally take some time and work out what one works, is easiest to store/transport and which is most efficacious.

BZ
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
you've got the advantage of time - Covid is pretty much sorted in Kiwi-land in terms of daily infection rates - no reason at all to hurry into a vaccination program - definitely, get one done but you can literally take some time and work out what one works, is easiest to store/transport and which is most efficacious.

BZ
Indeed, NZ is just about the only place on the planet with the luxury of waiting to see which vaccine product is best. Hopefully there isn’t a bad choice for countries that must proceed now.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well, the major driver behind the speed of getting a tested vaccine to market is money - usually arranging human trials in any numbers is expensive. With the current situation, well, I'm reminded of Gene Krantz's comment when his "failure is not an option" quote started to get used in mainstream management.
"When failure is not an option, success can get pretty expensive"
You can't fix *everything* by throwing a billion or two at the problem but it seems to have worked in this instance.

And hey, if we do all start growing spare heads, you can sit back, point and laugh :)

We're underway with vaccinations and thankfully, so far, that seems to be going smoothly, possibly because the purchase and delivery isn't dependent on the contract being awarded to a company incorporated last month by one of the PM's mates. Koff:pPE..
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
Another solid look at the state of misinformation during the pandemic, ranging from the efficacy of lockdowns to an interesting examination of how Sweden has actually responded to the crisis.

 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 1 of 3: Delta from 0% to over 80% in 10 weeks

Here in the UK official guidance is that you should have both doses of any of the vaccines for which the manufacturers recommend two doses, but giving a third dose of a different vaccine as a booster is currently being considered.

Almost 90% of adults here have now had one dose, & about 65% two doses, & I think the plan is to fully vaccinate everyone willing before starting on boosters.
1. UK despite its high vaccination rate is having difficulty in managing the spread of the Delta (aka one of the coronavirus variants first detected in India - the B.16172) and the British variant B.1.1.7. I also worry about the spread of the B.1.525 ("Nigerian") coronavirus variant that combines traits of B1.1.7 (British) with B.1.351 (South-African). Almost 45.7 million people in UK have had a first vaccine dose - about 87% of the adult population - and more than 34 million have had a second. The number of first doses administered each day is now averaging at about 98,000 in UK - far below a peak of some 500,000 in mid-March. An average of more than 160,000 second doses are now being given a day, with the delivery of second doses accelerated in UK in response to the emergence of the Delta variant, first identified in India.
(a) Likewise, Israel is a 60% 2-dose Pfizer vaccinated country is also struggling with the Delta variant. Israel said the country will begin offering a third dose of Pfizer Inc's vaccine to adults with weak immune systems but it was still weighing whether to make the booster available to the general public. Israeli data shows that in June it had 2,395 Covid-19 cases​
  • 57% unvaccinated = 1373
  • 4% partially vaccinated = 90
  • 39% vaccinated = 932
Today, there are 34 severely ill patients in hospital​
  • 59% unvaccinated = 20
  • 6% partially vaccinated = 2
  • 35% vaccinated = 12
(b) In the latest sign of the uneven state of the coronavirus pandemic around the world, a slew of countries in the Asia-Pacific region are rushing to impose restrictions on movement to contain surging cases, a full year and a half into a pandemic that many had originally handled deftly. Thailand is introducing a seven-hour nightly curfew, South Korea is introducing curbs in capital Seoul and Vietnam is locking down after setting fresh records for daily case numbers or deaths this week. Indonesia has had to source emergency oxygen supplies from neighboring Singapore as it struggles with shortages, the Associated Press reported.​

2. A study in Singapore showed that the B.16172:

(a) has a higher viral load (Australian studies show that previous or earlier variants spread to 25% of household members vs 100% spread to household members) and fleeting exposures of just 5-10 seconds is now enough with the new Delta variant;​
(b) is able to spread to vaccinated (2 shots) to unvaccinated, which led to large transmission chains in Singapore that even our world class contact tracing and testing regime struggled to cope with for 2 to 3 weeks; in a Singapore Delta variant cluster that was in the study, among 29 vaccinated who got infected, 21 transmissions events were between vaccinated-to-vaccinated or vaccinated-to-unvaccinated; and​
(c) has been shown to cause more unvaccinated people who are infected (by percentage) to be hospitalised and increases the need of the infected for oxygen to survive, which increases the load on hospitals.​

3. A 90-year-old woman who died after falling ill with Covid-19 was infected with both the B.1.1.7 (Alpha) and B.1.351 (Beta) variants of the coronavirus at the same time, researchers in Belgium said on 10 July 2021, adding that the rare phenomenon may be underestimated. The unvaccinated woman, who lived alone and received at-home nursing care, was admitted to the OLV Hospital in the Belgian city of Aalst after a spate of falls in March and tested positive for Covid-19 the same day. While her oxygen levels were initially good, her condition deteriorated rapidly and she died 5 days later. According to the CDC, there are four notable variants in the US:
  • B.1.1.7 (Alpha): This variant was first detected in the US in Dec 2020. It was initially detected in the UK.
  • B.1.351 (Beta): This variant was first detected in the US at the end of Jan 2021. It was initially detected in South Africa in December 2020.
  • P.1 (Gamma): This variant was first detected in the US in Jan 2021. P.1 was initially identified in travelers from Brazil, who were tested during routine screening at an airport in Japan, in early January.
  • B.16172 (Delta): This variant was first detected in the US in Mar 2021. It was initially identified in India in Dec 2020.
These variants seem to spread more easily and quickly than other variants, which may lead to more cases of COVID-19. An increase in the number of cases will put more strain on healthcare resources, lead to more hospitalizations, and potentially more deaths; and vaccines alone is not the solution for the Asia-Pacific region, Europe, UK or North America.

4. To combat the spread of Covid-19, TraceTogether, SafeEntry requirements to be reintroduced in supermarkets in Singapore. Singapore’s MOH said the high volume of patrons in supermarkets increases the risk of transmission. The reintroduction of the rule requirement will facilitate more targeted contact tracing for those who visited indoor buildings at the same time as an infected person, the ministry said. In Singapore on 9 July 2021, 3.9 million first doses of the vaccine has been administered and 1/3 of the population or 2.3 million have completed the full vaccination regimen of the 2nd dose.
(a) Singapore encourages mask wearing even after vaccination but will move to a new normal after a large percentage is vaccinated — the tiny country is on track after relaxing the latest round of restrictions on 13 June 2021 and is currently providing 60,000 vaccine jabs per day.​
(b) From 12 Jul 2021 onwards: (i) groups of 5 allowed to dine in; (ii) resumption of wedding receptions — weddings with no more than 250 attendees allowed with pre-event testing. For wedding receptions with 50 attendees or fewer, pre-event testing will be required for the wedding party only; (iii) the cap on group sizes for indoor activities such as gyms raised to 5; and (iv) gatherings at the workplace must be limited to a total size of no more than 5 people.​
(c) From 15 July 2021: mandatory, routine fast and easy tests for staff in higher-risk settings to start. From 16 July 2021 onwards, antigen rapid tests kit will be sold at supermarkets, and convenience stores.​
5. With its testing capacity and ability to acquire vaccine stocks for its entire population, Singapore has been punching above its weight in fighting against the Covid-19 pandemic. In addition:
(a) Blood samples from 3 patients in Singapore were used to develop the experimental antibody cocktail used to treat former US President Donald Trump after he tested positive for the coronavirus. Singapore’s National Centre for Infectious Diseases (NCID) had responded to a collaboration request from US biotechnology firm Regeneron - the company which developed that antibody cocktail - with no claim of intellectual property right over the treatment.​
(b) Regeneron eventually used 3 of the 5 Singapore patient samples as the research starting point to develop the antibodies. Regeneron's treatment, called REGN-COV2, is a combination or 'cocktail' of two antibodies, which are infection-fighting proteins that were developed to bind themselves to the virus and inhibit it from invading human cells.​
(c) The key is having a large enough sample of infected to develop the science of treatment and having a superb contact tracing capability in Singapore to gather reliable data and study the spread of new variants.​

6. In the US, Covid-19 is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated, according to the head of the US CDC. In Alabama, state officials report 94% of COVID hospital patientsand 96% of Alabamians who have died of COVID since April were not fully vaccinated. Every new case provides chance for further mutation. Delta went from 0% to over 80% of cases in 10 weeks. As children get infected, any mutation that can better infect their vaxxed parents (and their parents' friends) will have a selection advantage.
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 2 of 3: Delta from 0% to over 80% in 10 weeks

7. The Covid-19 virus will continue to mutate and this testing and vaccination program will go in circles in the years to come (becoming treated like a very serious type of seasonal flu for those vaccinated). To combat this Delta variant spread, alternatives to PCR tests being rolled out or evaluated in Singapore including antigen rapid tests, saliva tests, breathalysers and wastewater surveillance.

8. Please wear a mask at in-door public areas and on public transport — even people who have been vaccinated can be infected or in some cases re-infected by Covid-19. The danger posted by the Delta variant is real, get vaccinated (or many more will die). I am not against people like Olivia Guidry choosing not get vaccinated and to die from Covid-19. The issue is how many more these people will infect before they die or get others killed from them spreading the virus.

9. Long COVID is a real multi-system syndrome that occurs in those infected (far more common than in uninfected controls) — predominantly impacting the young. The majority of those affected are <50 yrs. And it affects children.
(i) Between 10-13% of children have symptoms for 5 wks or more, and 7-8% of children had symptoms for 12 wks or more compared with <2% of controls. Also these symptoms are not mild. Of the ~1 million people affected, 2/3rds said it impacted their day to day activity. And 400,000 have had persistent symptoms for more than a year.​
(ii) For most affected, this wasn't a single symptom. It was a combination of many symptoms. e.g. 20% of those infected reported 3 or more symptoms and 17% reported 4 or more symptoms at 12 weeks. If symptoms persist for 12 weeks as they do in 1 in 3 people as per the REACT-1 study, they tend to persist for much longer (up to 22 weeks or more). Also 1/3rd of those with one symptom persisting said it impacted their day to day activities.​
(iii) The cognitive symptoms (brain fog, memory loss, difficulty concentrating, sleep disturbances) tend to become prominent later in long COVID, & also last longer. These are worrying also because there are now studies showing the virus affects the brain, even in younger people. More and more evidence accruing that SARS-CoV-2 causes significant persistent effects on the brain. We now have multiple strands supporting this:​
  • long-term symptoms-brain fog, memory loss
  • higher risk of stroke/neuro diseases
  • structural brain changes
  • virus persistence in brain
10. Israeli MoH beginning to suspect that the Pfizer vaccine's immunity is waning given the spread of Delta. The B.1.617.2 or delta variant has spread worldwide. In a test-negative case–control study, the effectiveness of two doses of BNT162b2 was 94% against the B.1.1.7 variant and 88% against delta; with ChAdOx1 nCoV-19, effectiveness was 74% and 67%, respectively. In US, Singapore and Israel, we have data that show that while vaccines sharply reduce the likelihood of infection — and serious illness and death — vaccinated people have gotten Covid-19.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 3 of 3: Delta from 0% to over 80% in 10 weeks

11. The Singapore Government previously thought that as long as the number of COVID-19 cases remained at about 40 to 60 per day, Singapore could “maintain the posture” while keeping clusters under control, said Health Minister and task force co-chair Ong Ye Kung. “Unfortunately every day makes a difference, and the public health situation changed in a short few days,” he added. From 22 July 2021 to 18 August 2021 (both dates inclusive), social gathering group sizes will be reduced to a maximum of 2 persons and dining-in at all F&B establishments in Singapore will cease. The Land Transport Authority said in a separate statement that the updated restrictions on group sizes will apply to passengers in taxis and private hire cars. More than two passengers can only travel together if they all live in the same household.

(a) “We know that this news is extremely disappointing and frustrating to many, in particular for businesses in sectors such as F&B. These sectors have been very badly hit given the earlier restrictions, they have been working very hard to adapt to the changing regulations,” said Mr Gan Kim Yong, who is also Minister for Trade and Industry.​
(b) The large cluster of Covid-19 cases involving those who visited KTV lounges where Safe Management Measures were often breached is in fact not to blame for the tightening of restrictions taking place from 22 July 2021. Mr Ong explained that what caused the "slide back" to the tighter measures under Phase 2 (Heightened Alert) — where dining in is prohibited and social gatherings are limited to two persons — was actually the Jurong Fishery Port cluster.​
(c) Mr Ong posed a hypothetical scenario in which a group of 5 friends met for dinner, and each member of the group is part of a household of 5 persons, who then meet with their own groups of 5. In such a scenario, Ong said, "we have a network of 5x5x5=125 connections for the virus to work itself through. This will turbo charge the Jurong Fishery Port cluster further."​
(d) Mr Ong also said that half of Singapore’s population have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19. But there remains about 200,000 seniors above 60 years old who have not received their shots.​
(e) The MOH is also investigating likely Covid-19 transmission at blocks in Sims Avenue. This comes after Covid-19 viral fragments were detected in wastewater samples collected from these blocks. Mandatory testing for residents of these 4 blocks will be done from July 22 to 23.​

12. IMO, Singapore as a country can aim for between 80% to 90% vaccination rate for the general population; but a higher vaccination number for the elderly.

13. In other related news, Singapore will send regular shipments of emergency oxygen supplies to Indonesia to aid the country’s fight against the current surge of COVID-19, Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) said on Monday (Jul 19). This arrangement, known as the “Oxygen Shuttle” programme, is at Indonesia’s request and will supplement the urgent need for oxygen in medical facilities there, added MFA.

(i) The “Oxygen Shuttle” programme is in addition to assistance from the Singapore Government to Indonesia in the form of oxygen cylinders, oxygen concentrators, ventilators, as well as other medical supplies and equipment, sent in earlier batches on Jul 9 and Jul 11.​
(ii) The programme is coordinated by MFA, with support from the Ministry of Defence, and the Changi Regional Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief Coordination Centre. Singapore is sending over 500 tonnes of liquid oxygen in regular shipments till August. 4 ISO tanks carrying a total of 80 tonnes of liquid oxygen arrived in Tanjung Priok, Jakarta on 19 July. This is in addition to the 2 ISO tanks (40 tonnes) sent over on the RSS Endeavour on 11 July. The next shipment will arrive next week.​
(iii) Even the Indian Navy is starting to send Oxygen and other Corvid-19 supplies to Indonesia.​

Bugger. She who must be obeyed and I had our second Pfizer jab this morning. Now I am just waiting for the 3 heads and horns to start growing. :D
14. I am waiting for my second jab, which is scheduled for next week — I felt slightly unwell for 2 days after my 1st jab — muscle stiffness on the injected site. I have a history of allergic reactions to insect stings, shell-fish and other unknown triggers — which made me ineligible for earlier vaccination. Singapore’s MOH only cleared people like me, from 4 Jun 2021 onwards — that is the main reason for my delay in getting vaccinated. In this regard, MOH does a good job of keeping us informed.

15. As of 23 July 2021, 12pm, the MOH has verified the number of new cases in Singapore has increased from 178 cases in the week before to 961 cases in the past week. We are likely to continue to see high number of cases in the coming days as we step up efforts to detect them to contain their spread in the community. The number of unlinked cases in the community has also increased from 18 cases in the week before to 97 cases in the past week. The 7-day moving average number of all linked community cases and all unlinked community cases are 123.4 and 13.9 respectively. There is continuing evidence that vaccination helps to prevent serious disease when one gets infected. Over the last 28 days, 10 local cases required oxygen supplementation, were admitted to ICU or passed away. 8 are unvaccinated, 2 are partially vaccinated and none was fully vaccinated.

16. As of 24 Jul 2021, 12pm, MOH has confirmed that there are 130 new cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore — with a total of 63,924 infected from the start of the pandemic. 127 of the cases are locally transmitted, of which 75 are linked to the Jurong Fishery Port cluster while five belong to the KTV cluster. Here are the daily case numbers in the past week:
  • July 18: 92
  • July 19: 172
  • July 20: 195
  • July 21: 181
  • July 22: 170
  • July 23: 133
  • July 24: 130
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Post 1 of 2: Anti-vaxxer Australians and Americans are killing themselves with Covid-19 misinformation by ignoring the science of pandemic management — please wear a mask!

1. In America, Dr. Vivek Murthy released the first surgeon general's advisory of his time serving in the Biden administration, describing the "urgent threat" posed by the rise of false information around COVID-19 — one that continues to put "lives at risk" and prolong the pandemic. Murthy says Americans must do their part to fight misinformation. In Singapore, guidance given under DORS is taken seriously by all religious groups, such that churches, mosques and temples are closed at the appropriate time; and even when it is reopened, masks and temperature screening are mandatory and no church in Singapore is claiming that religious faith alone would protect its members.
As I see it, Stephen Harmon’s prayers were answered by his God — his life and death serves as a powerful testimony of his failure to listen to God. God provided him scientists to give him some guidance, masks to keep the disease from spreading, and ultimately a vaccine — all of which he ignored.

2. With the spread of the Delta variant, nearly 60 major medical organizations in America, including the American Medical Association and the American Nurses Association, called for mandatory vaccination of health care workers. Unlike Singaporeans, Americans don’t trust others or the government enough to get a vaccine jab.

(a) "The delta variant of the coronavirus spreads as easily as chickenpox, according to an internal Federal health document." Political division, disinformation, and stupidity made:​
(i) a large segment of Americans; and​
(ii) a significant minority of Australians, Canadians and the British,​
unwilling to listen to facts — including idiots like Stephen Harmon from L.A., Curt Carpenter from Alabama and Olivia Guidry (an Emergency Room Nurse at Ochsner Lafayette General)— choosing not to get vaccinated and dying from Covid-19. While deaths due to stupidity is normal, these three deaths are part of an infection chain in America that harms society at large. Tests in Singapore have shown that the viral load in infected persons who are fully vaccinated falls to a very low level after 9 days — whereas an unvaccinated person, who is only slightly sick, has to stay in quarantine for at least 21 days. Singapore’s MOH is now discharging fully vaccinated persons from isolation after 14 days from onset of illness with a 7-day leave of absence, so long as their tests show that they are Covid-19 negative or have very low viral loads.​
(b) In early April 2021, YouTube took down a video featuring Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and a group of controversial scientists at a coronavirus roundtable. The online video platform, cited as its rationale that the video contained false statements about the efficacy of children's mask-wearing. Political division, disinformation, and stupidity has created an environment in which enough people in America, Australia or Britain will NOT change their minds, because to accept the science now is to admit that the favorite information sources of COVID-19 idiots have been wrong all along.
(c) The US CDC finally released that worrisome unpublished analysis from Massachusetts showing the mega outbreak of 469 infected had 74% being breakthroughs, and that among the breakthroughs— viral loads were similar in vaxxed and unvaxxed during the infectious phase. This is why CDC ultimately had to reinstate masks.​
(d) A new global report has found that out of 29 countries, willingness to get vaccinated against COVID-19 has risen over time, with Australia the only exception. A new report by Reset Australia has found that the rise in vaccine hesitancy has coincided with a 280% increase in anti-vaxx group membership on Facebook. To help tackle misinformation and uncertainty surrounding vaccines for COVID-19 and other diseases, the Australian Academy of Science has launched a new Science of Immunisation booklet.​
(e) In contrast to the delays in vaccine roll-out or lack of acceptance, in America or Australia, 66.6% of Singapore’s population (over the age of 12) will be fully vaccinated by 9 Aug 2021. By end Sept 2021, more than 80% of our population (over the age of 12) will be vaccinated, to enable our economy to reopen. MOH has also reduced the dose interval to 4 weeks — that way, 60% of infected can recover in community care facilities in just 14 days (instead of being in acute care for a much longer period). This speeded up 2nd jab will allow more of the population in Singapore to complete their vaccination of two doses sooner.​
(f) As of 30 June 2021 noon, Singapore reported 131 new locally transmitted COVID-19 infections. The Jurong Fishery Port cluster has grown to 999 cases and remains the largest active cluster in the country. Among the new cases, one person is above the age of 70 who is partially vaccinated, and at risk of serious illness, said MOH. Total vaccine doses administered (as of 29 Jul): 7,429,918. From the above data, it is clear we have a government that cares and citizens who cooperate that is why out of the 64,861 Corvid-19 cases that occurred, we only have 37 deaths.​

3. In every country, there are children and elderly out there with cancer with very weak immune systems who cannot afford to have COVID-19 spread to them by a person who is asymptomatic or slightly sick. Sadly for the people who Stephen Harmon infected and his followers, he chose indulge in the sin of pride instead of humility — he failed to have the humility to listen to the medical professionals who had to take risk to care for him on his death bed. Epidemiologists who use mathematical modeling to calculate disease spread have found the following:

One, the initial R0 of COVID-19 was estimated as between 2.3-2.7 (one infected person is likely to infect 2.3 to 2.7 unaware people) — which made pandemic spread of the virus difficult to control.​
Two, the Delta variant is much more highly infectious with a R0 of between of 5-8 (one infected person is likely to infect 5 to 8 unaware people). This means that Stephen Harmon’s COVID-19 mis-information is causing more harm to a greater number of people, because the virus has mutated to be more infectious. The maths for arithmetic progression at a R0 of 2.5 calculated against 5, in 6 rounds of progression is 610 vs 78,125 (of infected people).​
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Long COVID even after vaccination

1. Some data supporting a 3rd booster. What keeps me up at night: a post-Delta variant for which vaccines have lower effectiveness for severe outcomes overlapping with the Northern hemisphere winter. IMHO, America and UK are increasing the possibility of such a variant emerging by not acting urgently.

2. Some more good news. Tens of thousands of young Americans (12 to 17) are going out and getting vaccinated — these are the responsible young that will Make America Great Again (and not the 6 Jan 2021 US Capitol attackers). This is an example of a behaviour change without a governmental mandate — by the young to avoid infection. Folks who say "government lock downs kill more people than Covid kills," often forget that people themselves change their behavior in the absence of a governmental mandate.

3. Severe cases among vaccinated people are possible but extremely rare — the vaccines dramatically reduce the risk of serious illness that leads to hospitalization or death.
(a) In America, 97% of those currently hospitalized with COVID-19 are unvaccinated, according to Walensky. With the delta variant taking over — which spreads about many times faster than the original strain — there will be more cases among everyone, vaccinated and unvaccinated, said John Moore, professor of microbiology and immunology at Weill Cornell Medicine.​
(b) "But its ability to infect fully vaccinated people is much less than those who are not vaccinated," he said. "In other words, the vaccines still work, just a bit less well." Saad Omer, director of the Yale Institute for Global Health put it this way: Previously you might have thought of your vaccination as "providing a bit of a force field, but that's not the case anymore," he said. "It's still pretty strong armor. But it's penetrable armor.”​
(c) It also turns out (surprise!) that a lot of young people don't want to get infected, don't want long COVID, and don't want to die. Even without a government-mandated stay-at-home order, many young people have changed their behavior 'spontaneously' by wearing masks and getting vaccinated to avert suffering and death — as is the case with NSW or in America.​

4. As NPR reported, researchers at the Sheba Medical Center in Israel tracked nearly 1,500 vaccinated health care workers — among them, 39 people got sick with COVID-19, and of those, seven people had symptoms that lingered beyond six weeks. Gili Regev-Yochay, who led the study, said these patients had symptoms such as severe fatigue, loss of taste and smell, muscle pain and headaches.

5. "This study is the first to give us an indicator that we may be seeing long COVID even after vaccination," said Dr. Eric Topol, a professor of molecular medicine at Scripps Research. "We had hoped that when you get vaccinated even if you did have a breakthrough infection, you would have enough of an immune response that would block this protracted symptom complex."

6. Vaccination for the young carries some risk but that risk is much lower than getting infected without vaccination. The paper on “Risk of Myocarditis from COVID-19 Infection in People Under Age 20: A Population-Based Analysis,” shows that the risk of myocarditis from COVID-19 "exceeds the known risk from vaccination by a considerable margin.”
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Post 2 of 2: Anti-vaxxer Australians and Americans are killing themselves with Covid-19 misinformation by ignoring the science of pandemic management — please wear a mask!

Edit: Please note that “Covid-19” is the correct way to state the name of the virus (the auto correct feature has a tendency to insert the wrong word, as “Corvid). h/t to tonnyc for letting me know.

4. Doctors are humans and in a pandemic, they are trying to save lives. Be kind to them — go get vaccinated. If an anti-vaxxer makes it to ICU with Covid-19, esp. if he ends up on a ventilator he has to STAY A VERY LONG TIME. Melbourne data last year - median ICU stay was 16 days (UK data average stay in ICU was 30 days). So just 1 severe Corvid-19 patient = estimated 20 heart or major cancer surgeries, postponed due to a lack of ICU beds.

5. Doctors are taking calculated risks, to care for their patients. For example, being sneezed on by a child, likely to have Covid-19 is no fun.

6. To those out there, knowingly peddling vaccine conspiracy theories, I would not be willing to do what a doctor who says ‘FU’ after catching Covid-19 but I have a better idea — people like that should be sent to Afghanistan to discuss their masking and rights with the Taliban or be sentenced to helping out in the morgue to handle those who have died from Covid-19.

7. America is so lucky to have the wealth and know how to produce and distribute vaccines to fight the contagious Delta, while much of the 3rd world, like Brazil (556K dead), India (424K dead), Mexico (241K dead) and South Africa (4.2 million dead), is deep in the throes of Covid-19 death and misery.
(a) U.S. President Joe Biden encouraged small and medium-sized businesses to take advantage of federal programmes covering the cost of paid leave for staff to use to get vaccinated. This would be extended to cover paid leave for employees to take family members to get vaccinated.​
(b) “We are going to use the full set of carrots and sticks,” White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain told MSNBC after the U.S. President concluded his remarks. The idea that there is a need incentivize American citizens wear masks or to get vaccinated is deeply disturbing — if this is not done, the American Covid-19 death toll can exceed that of Brazil or India combined, in the 31 Dec 2022 tally. Currently, over 613,000 Americans are dead from Covid-19. Stop with the misinformation. Save lives.​
 
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John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Post 2 of 2: Anti-vaxxer Australians and Americans are killing themselves with Covid-19 misinformation by ignoring the science of pandemic management — please wear a mask!

4. ….

5. Doctors are taking calculated risks, to care for their patients. For example, being sneezed on by a child, likely to have Covid-19 is no fun.

6. To those out there, knowingly peddling vaccine conspiracy theories, I would not be willing to do what a doctor who says ‘FU’ after catching Covid-19 but I have a better idea — people like that should be sent to Afghanistan to discuss their masking and rights with the Taliban or be sentenced to helping out in the morgue to handle those who have died from Covid-19.

7. ….
I think being sent to Afghanistan is the end of the earth and one would be pretty much &ucked so you and the doctor are on the same page.;)
 
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ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The International Science Council has concerns that the pollies believe that vaccines are the magic bullet and once they take effect everything resets to pre-COVID-19 normal. In fact the Council argue that is far from the truth and that we are in an arms race with the virus. The fact that at present the richer countries have greater access to vaccines than third world nations adds to the problem giving the virus the advantage. This has widespread across the board global ramifications from social cohesion to geostrategic ramifications.

 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
The International Science Council has concerns that the pollies believe that vaccines are the magic bullet and once they take effect everything resets to pre-COVID-19 norma
I know their actual massage/agenda is to push more equitable vaccine distributions, and I support that. However we as human already treat vaccine as magic bullet for virus related prevention for quite some time.


Just put this to shown that 100 years after Spanish Flu, Influenza still kill around 200K - 500K people annualy around the world. That's actually quite a big number. We practically ignored that cause there're ample supply of Flu Shoots available.

That's I believe what happen with Covid. The problem right now, it's still new virus. Thus the amount of mutations still high. Especially if it get loose in large population area, like India that create Delta, South Africa, South America and I'm prety sure some mutation happen also in Indonesia due to current spike. The other thing that vaccines still not well distributted globally.

However in the end Vaccine, and new combination of medicine will adjust that. I agree with the scientist that large populated countries need to build their own vaccine Industries to keep up with new virus that can create potential pandemics. However until we can create nano boots that can clean up problematic virus in the body, or create DNA treatment that manage super antibody, we will depend on Vaccines.

I can see that annual booster will be use at least for every international traveller for some time in future. Communities will adjust, because that what they need to do to back to normal conditions. There will be new normal due to Covid, and Vaccine is still the magic bullet that mostly being used to achieve that.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
With the flu I suppose familiarity breeds contempt, but I believe the 1918 Spanish Influenza was a particularly nasty variant. It was a variant of the A Influenza H1N1 an avian variety that in this case had a mean streak to it. It is believed to have killed between 20 - 50 million people. Source is Wiki.

The only reason that I get the flu jab now was that in 1994 my son and I got a real bad dose of the flu and both of us were crook as dogs (really sick) for 3 weeks. Never been so crook in my life. So now the whole family religiously get the flu jab every year.

I think that the COVID-19 will go the same way and I would say that you are fairly right WRT booster jabs. I do see that there is a bit of chatter about possibility of third jabs being required for current vaccine programmes but not necessarily the same vaccine that you've had. There have been suggestions that a 2+1 mix may be more effective than 3 othe same.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The problem right now, it's still new virus. Thus the amount of mutations still high.
Mutations have nothing to do with being new. A mutation spreads if it has an advantage over other variants, such as eliminating or circumventing defensive immune reactions, increasing contagiousness or widening its host base. While there are a couple hundred mainstream variants of SARS-CoV-2 by now - and a few dozen variants of concern - only a handful individual variants tend to dominate the global picture by relatively quickly achieving 90+% of new infections after a few weeks.

From an evolutionary standpoint the vaccines - as currently designed - have assisted the virus insofar as keeping their host alive, although no variant has so far emerged that uses this by e.g. increasing the time of optimized contagiousness. What little immune reaction the vaccines imparted has been eliminated by variants by now, thus making vaccinated as contagious as unvaccinated (even worse so in reality, due to lowered symptoms in vaccinated ensuring their infection is caught later or not at all).
 

tonnyc

Well-Known Member
Mutations have nothing to do with being new. A mutation spreads if it has an advantage over other variants, such as eliminating or circumventing defensive immune reactions, increasing contagiousness or widening its host base. While there are a couple hundred mainstream variants of SARS-CoV-2 by now - and a few dozen variants of concern - only a handful individual variants tend to dominate the global picture by relatively quickly achieving 90+% of new infections after a few weeks.

From an evolutionary standpoint the vaccines - as currently designed - have assisted the virus insofar as keeping their host alive, although no variant has so far emerged that uses this by e.g. increasing the time of optimized contagiousness. What little immune reaction the vaccines imparted has been eliminated by variants by now, thus making vaccinated as contagious as unvaccinated (even worse so in reality, due to lowered symptoms in vaccinated ensuring their infection is caught later or not at all).
Having a new variant that can get past current vaccines means we will make new vaccines that specifically target that variant. Given this, it's preferable to vaccinate everyone today with the vaccines we have now. Not only it will save lives, but given that the reduced symptoms often means not needing hospitalization, it saves money. Having to spend two weeks at home watching Netflix is way cheaper that spending two weeks in the hospital.

New technology means we can develop vaccines faster than before. Astrazeneca for example said February that they need 6-9 months to produce new vaccines effective against the new variants. Assuming a shortened clinical trial phase because this is a variant of an existing vaccine rather than a totally new one, we may see a vaccine designed against the delta variant before the end of the year.

Elsewhere the antivax crowd has tried to cast the emergence of delta variant as proof that vaccination is useless. They're stupid. See the paragraph about watching Netflix at home versus spending the time in a hospital. Also the part where we'll just develop new vaccines to deal with the new variant.
 
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