The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
There's chatter of conscripts being sent straight to the Ukrainian front without any training. The chatter is coming from Ukrainian sources and I am tending to dismiss it as propaganda because as @Feanor has pointed out, under Russian law conscripts cannot be sent to combat zones outside of Russian territory. However when Putin gets the illegal annexation law rubber stamped by the Duma, then Russian conscripts can be sent to face the righteous wroth of the Ukrainians. Whether they are trained or untrained is another story.

As a veteran myself, I find that practise absolutely abhorrent and the general Russian treatment of their troops as cruel, uncivilised, and criminal. No soldiers / sailors / marines / or aviators should ever be treated like that. No wonder they have a morale problem. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if more than one officer isn't fragged or given a warning shot between the eyeballs by his own troops. Then there is their treatment of POWs. That is a war crime for a start. Just to be clear, I also believe that the American treatment of people captured in the War On Terror is technically a war crime as well.
The legal status of the newly mobilized personnel has been equated with that of contract soldiers. They can be sent to the front line. How much training they will get is an open question. Let's wait and see. Volunteer btlns typically got 30-60 days of training. But this is different.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Russia losing harder than usual — seems to have missed a chance during the battle in Lyman for an organised retrograde.
Russian sources are confirming operational encirclement of Liman. Every road out is under Ukrainian fire. It's unclear what happens next. If Russia doesn't have reserves to counter-attack with, we might be looking at the first major surrender of Russian troops.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The legal status of the newly mobilized personnel has been equated with that of contract soldiers. They can be sent to the front line. How much training they will get is an open question. Let's wait and see. Volunteer btlns typically got 30-60 days of training. But this is different.
Russia's Far East MD is apparently training their reservists. Unclear on everyone else. This isn't too surprising, Primor'ye region trained their volunteer btln on the basis of the 155th MarBde as a de-facto 4th btln. Other areas may not be so well organized.

 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
Russia's Far East MD is apparently training their reservists. Unclear on everyone else. This isn't too surprising, Primor'ye region trained their volunteer btln on the basis of the 155th MarBde as a de-facto 4th btln. Other areas may not be so well organized.

Is there any reports on the refurbishment of tanks to be added to these new recruits ,certainly this older article suggests some 3 thousand t-80s but have they ?
Russia Preparing to Return 3,000 Older Tanks Into Service (popularmechanics.com)
Certainly the Armata tank has not known to have been involved in the Ukraine
Russia to Start Mass Producing T-14 Armata Tanks in 2022 (thedefensepost.com)
 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
Russia's Far East MD is apparently training their reservists. Unclear on everyone else. This isn't too surprising, Primor'ye region trained their volunteer btln on the basis of the 155th MarBde as a de-facto 4th btln. Other areas may not be so well organized.

Two things come to mind on this

1. It is apparent that some are getting proper training while others are getting little to no training. As these forces are deployed it's highly likely Ukraine will scout the line of battle for those units that lacked any worthwhile training and hit there as they would be more likely to collapse.

2. As at present the fat MD seems to be the most organised in training new forces (from what I have personally read, not necessarily fact on the ground) what sort of throughput do they have? (How many troops can the effectively train in a particular time period before the training is effected by too many conscripts being rushed through.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 1 of 3: Russian AofI around Lyman & Ukraine’s shifting FSCL

Russian sources are confirming operational encirclement of Liman. Every road out is under Ukrainian fire.
1. If you remember, I mentioned battlefield geometry in the past. Looks like the Russian G3 (Operations and Plans) has failed in his plans and reaction to consider battlefield geometry during the battle in Lyman.

2. Ukrainian military officials noted that Russian forces have already committed mobilized men to Kharkiv Oblast who have since told the Ukrainian forces that they did not receive any training prior to their deployment around 15 Sep 2022. A Russian BTG has a limited area of influence (AofI). The BTG’s over rated AofI does not matter in the fiction of war, especially if the men sent to the front are untrained or minimally trained.
(a) In contrast to the military reality on the ground (as Russian forces face envelopment at Lyman), Russia’s annexation announcement seems like cheap propaganda. Putin’s primary complaint isn't NATO expansion, which gets only a cursory mention. According to him, the West is greedy and seeks to enslave and colonise other nations, like Russia.​
(b) Putin says that the West uses the power of finance and technology to enforce its will on other nations. To collect what he calls the "hegemon's tax". Putin added that the rules-based order the West goes on about is "nonsense". Who made these rules? Who agreed to them? Russia is an ancient country and civilization and they will not play by these "rigged" rules. It seems the purpose of what Putin is doing in Ukraine is to throw the West off its pedestal. This isn't about NATO or Ukraine, this is the big play to replace the current world order.​
(c) Ukraine and the West just need to continue doing what they already do and ignore Putin’s theatrics in Moscow. They simply dont matter beyond the effective admission that Russia is losing.​
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Is there any reports on the refurbishment of tanks to be added to these new recruits ,certainly this older article suggests some 3 thousand t-80s but have they ?
Russia Preparing to Return 3,000 Older Tanks Into Service (popularmechanics.com)
Certainly the Armata tank has not known to have been involved in the Ukraine
Russia to Start Mass Producing T-14 Armata Tanks in 2022 (thedefensepost.com)
The T-14 has yet to reach line units. I would disregard it. Russia is definitely reactivating buckets of T-80s and T-62Ms. Also 2S3s, OSA SAMs, BM-21s, BM-27s etc.

Russian Railways Reinforcements Tanks || Kursk Station
Huge RU Railways Echelon With The Russian Military In Minsk-East Train Station.

If you remember, I mentioned battlefield geometry in the past. Looks like the Russian G3 (Operations and Plans) has failed in his plans and reaction to consider battlefield geometry during the battle in Lyman.
I really don't know what the deal is. Someone apparently made the decision to hold Liman, and Russian and LNR troops are holding. Again no lack of will to fight. However it's no use holding Liman if you can't hold a front line. And this is the problem. Russia still doesn't have enough troops there to form a solid front line. It appears that small Ukrainian mobile groups are doing this by simply passing through the Russian line and forcing engagements on their terms, while Russia doesn't have the C4ISR to control the area with their own mobile groups and doesn't have the boots to just hold the ground.
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
The above rail convoys would it be becoming for difficult for them to travel through Ukraine with the inroads Ukranian forces have made ,I'm
The T-14 has yet to reach line units. I would disregard it. Russia is definitely reactivating buckets of T-80s and T-62Ms. Also 2S3s, OSA SAMs, BM-21s, BM-27s etc.

Russian Railways Reinforcements Tanks || Kursk Station
Huge RU Railways Echelon With The Russian Military In Minsk-East Train Station.



I really don't know what the deal is. Someone apparently made the decision to hold Liman, and Russian and LNR troops are holding. Again no lack of will to fight. However it's no use holding Liman if you can't hold a front line. And this is the problem. Russia still doesn't have enough troops there to form a solid front line. It appears that small Ukrainian mobile groups are doing this by simply passing through the Russian line and forcing engagements on their terms, while Russia doesn't have the C4ISR to control the area with their own mobile groups and doesn't have the boots to just hold the ground.
thinking of interception by long range artillery ,Himars or even air assets
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 2 of 3: Russian AofI around Lyman & Ukraine’s shifting FSCL

3. In my prior training, we may use a control measure, the fire support coordination line (FSCL), to delineate responsibilities.

4. A brigade in Ukraine will target short of the control measure, while a division targets beyond the control measure. In Ukraine, a brigade would conduct deep operations from the forward line of own troops (FLOT) out to the FSCL with its organic attack systems, but may nominate targets beyond the FSCL for attack with air interdiction assets.

5. The division deep operations responsibility falls between the FSCL and the forward boundary of the joint operations area (JOA), but may nominate targets outside the JOA through the air tasking order (ATO) planning process. The 2 Su-24M strike aircraft in action on Russian armour was part of the ATO process; it enabled 4 parachute-retarded bombs to be dropped from each aircraft.

6. This is so wrong. Ukraine is too keen to share too much background info that should be censored, as OPSEC — all texts, maps & screens in a planning area should not be shown in photos and kept a mystery.
 
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Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
This is so wrong. Ukraine is too keen to share too much background info that should be censored, as OPSEC — all texts, maps & screens in a planning area should not be shown in photos and kept a mystery.
That would be true, unless it is a setup. I suspect that it might be as it is not usual for the Ukrainians to be so forthcoming except when they want to get the RU to move troops away from were they want to apply pressure. It could even be a double bluff?

Their long telegraphed attack on the Kherson region achieved the movement of forces into the region at the expense of other regions and by keeping up some pressure there they have stopped the RU from redeploying those forces to other area's after they attacked in the north . This I think contributed to their success in the north. We may see other "Unfortunate Disclosures" to confuse the RU commanders. IMO it is likely that this is deliberate.
 
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vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
That would be true, unless it is a setup. I suspect that it might be as it is not usual for the Ukrainians to be so forthcoming except when they want to get the RU to move troops away from were they want to apply pressure. It could even be a double bluff?

Their long telegraphed attack on the Kherson region achieved the movement of forces into the region at the expense of other regions and by keeping up some pressure there they have stopped the RU from redeploying those forces to other area's after they attacked in the north . This I think contributed to their success in the north. We may see other "Unfortunate Disclosures" to confuse the RU commanders. IMO it is likely that this is deliberate.
That or the pictures have been allowed to be taken but a time delay on there release so that anything gleened from them is already out of date. I recall Ukraine suffering casualties a while back when a French news crew released unredacted footage/pictures and Russia was able to make use of it. No matter which possibility I am sure Ukraine learnt from that past mishap.

Looking at those pictures I would say that it has been carefully allowed/planned seeing a number of personal are careful to keep faces covered or avoiding looking at the camera.
 

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
Ukraine has shown a capacity to apply deception for tactical gains, something either not existent in Russia's current MO, or simply much less significant.

The Kharkiv involved a brilliant stroke of deception, which paid off. I believe there is connection between the people who orchestrated this deception, and the PR around it, because the deception itself requires full control of PR on the front.
 
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ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Ukraine has shown a capacity to apply deception for tactical gains, something either not existent in Russia's current MO, or simply much less significant.
The Kharkiv involved a brilliant stroke of deception, which paid off. I believe there is connection between the people who orchestrated this deception, and the PR around it, because the deception itself requires full control of PR on the front.
Yes. Marshal Georgy Zhukov would've been very pleased with the Ukrainian performance except that they're giving his Russian Army a thrashing. If he was in charge of the Russian Army, things would've been different and any officer who didn't perform would've wish that they weren't born. Certainly wouldn't be the fubar it is at the moment.
 

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
1. Hey you, yeah you! Listen to me, this is significant:


2. Solovyov showing not frustration, but utter despair. Admittedly I only watch snippets from his show so I don't know if it's unprecedented, but this is the tone viewers are starting to see.

3. Ok now that I provided some valuable input, I can add a short rant.
  • Russia's talk of treating an attack on its newly annexed districts/republics as an attack on its own territory, is, IMO, empty. Russia's previous threats being half empty are a factor, but there's another one - Russia's territory was already subjected to military attacks during this war.
  • To those who might have forgotten, Ukraine targeted Belgorod, mainland Russia, on numerous occasions. Even before targeting Crimea properly.
4. Hence, for the time being, there is no unprecedented action or real strategic shift that would adversely affect the Ukrainian tempo. The sole exception is the Russian partial mobilization, which I estimate to be a wild card.
 
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Hey you, yeah you! Listen to me, this is significant:

1. Solovyov showing not frustration, but utter despair. Admittedly I only watch snippets from his show so I don't know if it's unprecedented, but this is the tone viewers are starting to see.
Aa long as his handlers perceive that he is depressed about the performance of the troops rather than the performance of the 'commander in chief' - I am sure that he will have a bright, stable, and window free future.
 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
Once you get with a few km, any value Lyman has as a rail hub vanished right ? So Lyman is being held for prestige/political reasons ?
Lyman was a solid place to hold while the held the east bank of the Oskil river as it could have acted as a solid anchor point. Once that started to fall and even advances from Izium its benefits quickly vanished until it became a liability. Why they didnt pull out sooner I dont know with the way the situation was changing. More troops and equipment would have escaped far more intact allowing them to reform a new line. With the delay and know having to effectively run to safety through what one could describe is a death trap means what does get out will be only a portion, injured, lacking in equipment and moral which would not be an effective force to reform the line. Actions like this will just allow Ukraine to continue the offensive as it weakens the Russian rather then the Ukrainian forces.
 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member

2. Solovyov showing not frustration, but utter despair. Admittedly I only watch snippets from his show so I don't know if it's unprecedented, but this is the tone viewers are starting to see.

I watched about 30 seconds, and as soon as he said "fight according to your regulations" I stopped. What an asshole. Many aspects of the RU army appear to be deficient. For some rear area mouthpiece to tell Ru soldiers that they need to "fight according to regulations" is comical.
 
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