The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

Hoover

New Member
Zelensky: I spoke with German Chancellor Friedrich Merz. Ukraine and Germany equally see the need to end the war as soon as possible with a dignified peace, and the parameters of the end of this war will determine the security conditions for Europe for decades. The war is in Europe, and Ukraine is an integral part of Europe, we are already in negotiations on joining the European Union. Therefore, Europe must be a participant in the relevant processes
Just in liveuamap.
Just my opinion, EU would be lucky only being in the same room as Putin and Trump during negotiations.
 

Redshift

Active Member
I disagree with the "should accept", something I never said.
Russia disagrees, as you can see; in the real world.
A lot of imagination there... Just one point, we, the free world, when we invade countries?

For some reason, every time I read the word "whataboutism" I think of doublethink, deliberate disregard of History... or blatant hypocrisy.
Your main arguements are "whataboutism" ta
You seem to not have a point or have one that misses the mark more often than not nowadays.


Turkey instead of India? Sure:


Would you like to know more? Greece participation in the scheme, perhaps? I would think this is a common knowledge that Europe (with very few exceptions) is buying Russian oil via “intermediaries”, whether it is unrefined oil or petroleum products. This is, of course, on top of the oil purchases directly from Russia by the EU members. And, of course, on top of the purchases of pipeline natural gas from Russia (via Turk Stream) and LNG from Russia (still about 15% of the EU gas supplies, probably a significantly higher percentage for Europe overall, only direct imports). There is also, of course, Azeri gas (and oil), Kazakh oil, and other “intermediaries” from all over the place. What is the point you are trying to make? Mine, I believe, is pretty clear: Europe is buying Russian hydrocarbons from all over the place. This is going to remain so for the foreseeable future too, regardless of the sanctions. At the end of the day, it is Europe that wants these resources and, therefore, there will always be a way and a willing “intermediary” to make it happen. Imagine if drugs were finite, supplied at a certain volume, and you ban the drugs of a particular origin. To note, the origin in this case holds about a quarter of natural gas reserves on (rather in) Earth, about 18% of global natural gas production, and about 10% of global oil exports. I would think the picture is pretty clear. I talked about it years ago here. Ananda did as well. On multiple occasions. This is also no rocket science. While some resources are redirected to places like Europe (dictating higher prices in the process), others are now sold in places where they were redirected from (often at lower prices, implying someone making additional profit by reselling these very resources to those who used to buy them directly for less). No mysteries here, very basic economics and common sense.

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This is not plausible though, but a near certainty especially when one includes the resources bought via “intermediaries”. But Trump is, of course, going to “sanction” India (not China!) with his idiotic tariffs, supposedly for purchasing Russian oil.

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Basically, the lowest hanging fruit that he also has other agendas to settle with. My guess is this will be revered before Aug 27 or the deadline extended. The same will probably happen with China at some point in the near future when his “negotiations” don’t go as “planned” (everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth).

Even Lindsay Graham (being what he is) is catching a small part of the hypocrisy here:

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He, of course, is not even referring to the direct purchases of hydrocarbons from Russia. Or the Americans buying what they actually need from Russia.

Is anyone going to chime in with the regular programming “whataboutism” comment? Targeted at me, of course.

@Redshift, imagine (pretending) seeing less than Lindsay Graham does!
Well at least now you seen to recognise that whilst Greece, Turkey and other countries are IN Europe they aren't actually Europe just a part of it.
 
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