The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

STURM

Well-Known Member
Marshal Georgy Zhukov would've been very pleased with the Ukrainian performance except that they're giving his Russian Army a thrashing. If he was in charge of the Russian Army, things would've been different and any officer who didn't perform would've wish that they weren't born.
Granted but he would have had operational reserves he could call upon and he had a STAVKA and a national leader who let him get on with his job with minimal interference. The Russians at present are fighting with a hand tied behind their back; a lack of resources and a political leadership seemingly out of touch with reality. Zhukov would also have been willing to pay the price of heavy casualties because he knew it was unavoidable.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Russia is holding Liman by one road, though Torskoe. Drobyshevo and Yampol' have fallen. Russia's perimeter in the city is basically the city itself. The 503rd Motor-Rifle Rgt from the 19th MRD has entered the fight, but I suspect it's not the whole rgt, likely a BTG from it. Ukrainian mobile teams have been spotted behind the city, trying to attack the lines leading into it.

Russia has just announced annexation of 4 Ukrainian regions, namely Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhye, and Kherson. It now remains to be seen whether Russia really wanted to hold Liman or just wanted to avoid the perception of another defeat right before the annexation. By my estimate, Russian forces in the area are still insufficient.

 

Exonian

Member
Once you get with a few km, any value Lyman has as a rail hub vanished right ? So Lyman is being held for prestige/political reasons ?
The defence of Lyman does appear to have been a tactical blunder. I think it will be a week or so before we know what the effect will be.
Has the time bought by the defence of Lyman been used to construct another cohesive defendable line further east? I rather suspect
that with Russia being short of effective units on the ground they will struggle to contain the situation. Ukraine reconnaissance units will already be ahead and working out how to bypass or encircle Svatove and Kremina and other key locations.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The defence of Lyman does appear to have been a tactical blunder. I think it will be a week or so before we know what the effect will be.
Has the time bought by the defence of Lyman been used to construct another cohesive defendable line further east? I rather suspect
that with Russia being short of effective units on the ground they will struggle to contain the situation. Ukraine reconnaissance units will already be ahead and working out how to bypass or encircle Svatove and Kremina and other key locations.
One interpretation is that they didn't want to do this with the annexation coming up. Another interpretation is that Russia believes there is significance in holding that town in particular. At this point I believe we will need to see significant additional reserves in this area. The arrival of the 503rd is a sign that Russia recognizes it's lack of forces. However, unless the entire rgt has shown up (something I find highly unlikely) this is nowhere near enough. At this point the question is whether Russia can deliver sufficient reserves quickly enough to secure supply routes into the town.
 

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
I watched about 30 seconds, and as soon as he said "fight according to your regulations" I stopped. What an asshole. Many aspects of the RU army appear to be deficient. For some rear area mouthpiece to tell Ru soldiers that they need to "fight according to regulations" is comical.
Yes, it infuriated me more than most things he said in the past.
I tried looking up whether he ever served in the armed forces but couldn't find anything.
 

SolarWind

Active Member
Ukraine pursues fast-track NATO application. In view of the annexation, does this move by Zelensky recognize Russia's new defensive stance? Did Zelensky get a nod from the West?
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Two things come to mind on this

1. It is apparent that some are getting proper training while others are getting little to no training. As these forces are deployed it's highly likely Ukraine will scout the line of battle for those units that lacked any worthwhile training and hit there as they would be more likely to collapse.

2. As at present the fat MD seems to be the most organised in training new forces (from what I have personally read, not necessarily fact on the ground) what sort of throughput do they have? (How many troops can the effectively train in a particular time period before the training is effected by too many conscripts being rushed through.
Some Russian reservists have arrived in Ukraine, in Donetsk region but they are apparently undergoing training there and appear reasonably well equipped. They appear to have modern(ish) body armor and kevlar/aramid helmets but no LBVs, instead carrying their magazines in Soviet-style side pouches. They definitely look at lot better then LDNR resevists, but this is the first wave only.


Mobilized Russian reservists from Dagestan in Chechnya. We don't see their equipment or training but the hodge podge of uniforms doesn't promise anything good.

 

relic88

Member
Ukraine pursues fast-track NATO application. In view of the annexation, does this move by Zelensky recognize Russia's new defensive stance? Did Zelensky get a nod from the West?
I felt something like this might come up. Putin's grab could be viewed as a justification for doing so.
 

Larry_L

Active Member
I have been reading a pro Russian site that is apparently translated into English. I am not sure of the accuracy of their information although they seem to monitor the telegram channels of prominent telegram bloggers. There is plenty of "FOG" here as elsewhere.
There is a report of a military commander Sladkov" visiting the Lyman recently who found only LNR troops there with the Russian troops gone. Either they are in an external defense, have retreated, or this is deliberate disinformation. The post is time marked as today which is unlikely. It is reported that the 208th battalion of the NM of the LPR continues to hold the defense of the settlement.


In another post the talk is of the first personnel of the mobilization are in training in the DPR. In the replies to the post there is a derogatory remark about the radio used being 50 years old (a R-107M). Another poster seems to joke that it is equivalent to a cheap Chinese Baofeng. As the Baofeng has VHF, and UHF capability I doubt if they are equivalent. I suspect this is a VHF only radio.
The trainees do appear to be have warm clothing and what appears to be Kevlar vests. I also note that in this, as in many images I see of of the conscripts seem pretty old.

 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I have bee reading a pro Russian site that is apparently translated into English. I am not sure of the accuracy of their information although they seem to monitor the telegram channels of prominent telegram bloggers. There is plenty of "FOG" here as elsewhere.
There is a report of a military commander Sladkov" visiting the Lyman recently who found only LNR troops there with the Russian troops gone. Either they are in an external defense, have retreated, or this is deliberate disinformation. The post is time marked as today which is unlikely. It is reported that the 208th battalion of the NM of the LPR continues to hold the defense of the settlement.


In another post the talk is of the first personnel of the mobilization are in training in the DPR. In the replies to the post there is a derogatory remark about the radio used being 50 years old (a R-107M). Another poster seems to joke that it is equivalent to a cheap Chinese Baofeng. As the Baofeng has VHF, and UHF capability I doubt if they are equivalent. I suspect this is a VHF only radio.
The trainees do appear to be have warm clothing and what appears to be Kevlar vests. I also note that in this, as in many images I see of of the conscripts seep pretty old.

Sladkov is a Russian video blogger. Not a commander. He has a telegram. Here's something interesting to think about though. When I google "Sladkov Russia Ukraine telegram" he doesn't come. But the Ukrainian SBU channel does, as do a bunch of western media outlets.


Do the same search on rambler and he's the first result (as he should be in a search obviously aimed at finding his telegram account, ok technically the first is an ad but the first real search result);


Here's his telegram. Russian propaganda is a state actor telling soldiers to fight harder. Western propaganda is the most powerful search engine in the world hiding pro-Russian social media.


EDIT: The radio part makes sense. Russia had a hard time putting enough modern comms into existing line units. These are reservists. Their radios are coming from the same pool as their vehicles. But while a 40 year old BMP-2 is a relevant vehicle in the current conflict, a 40 year old radio is significantly less so.
 

SolarWind

Active Member

Annexation crosses a line. New wider sanctions on Russia's elites. Secondary sanctions threatened against foreign companies caught helping Russia. Zelensky's request to accelerate the Ukrainian bid to join NATO "rebuffed". Ukraine will receive help.

“The United States does not and will never recognize any of the Kremlin’s claims to sovereignty over parts of Ukraine that it seized by force and now purports to incorporate into Russia,” Mr. Blinken told reporters in Washington. “The entire process around the sham referenda was a complete farce.”

Mr. Blinken pledged to continue punishing “any individual, entity or country that provides political or economic support for President Putin’s illegal attempts to change the status of Ukrainian territory.”
 

SolarWind

Active Member

Andriy Yermak and Anders Fogh Rasmussen propose Kyiv Security Compact to support Ukraine now.

When provided support, Ukraine defeats Russia on the battlefield. In response to Ukraine's successes, Russia resorted to long-range missile attacks on civilian infrastructure, which is a war crime. Ukraine needs air and missile defense systems. Ukraine needs investment in its defense industry, immediate weapon supplies, intelligence sharing, training, and security guarantees.

The Kyiv Security Compact would not replace Ukraine's NATO and EU bids, which are long-term processes but would provide support immediately.

Security guarantees must come from a core group of Ukraine’s allies with significant military capabilities that are prepared to make politically and legally binding commitments. This could include the U.S., U.K., Canada, Poland, Italy, Germany, France, Australia, Turkey and the Nordic, Baltic and Central European countries.

Alongside the commitments of military support, a broader group of international partners should back a set of sanction guarantees. This would include Group of 7 and EU member states, as well as other countries currently enforcing sanctions on Russia, such as South Korea and Japan. These commitments should also include snapback provisions to reinstate sanctions automatically in case of further Russian aggression.

The Budapest Memorandum of 1994, which included a security promise in return for Ukraine’s giving up its nuclear weapons, proved worthless. The Kyiv Security Compact would be different. It would focus on providing practical material support to enhance Ukraine’s ability to defend itself. Unlike the Budapest Memorandum, Russia can’t block the compact’s application through the United Nations Security Council. If Ukraine is attacked, guarantor states would convene within 24 hours and decide on what action to take within 72 hours.
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 3 of 3: Russian AofI around Lyman & Ukraine’s shifting FSCL

7. Russian IADS often use radio frequency emitting decoys to seduce anti-radiation missiles to decoy American made HARM missiles.

8. IMO, Ukraine’s conduct of SEAD is not an end in & of itself but a subset of the ATO planning process to create conditions for troop advance.

9. Unconfirmed developments in Lyman. Could be significant news on movement of the Ukrainian FSCL, if true.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
9. Unconfirmed developments in Lyman. Could be significant news on movement of the Ukrainian FSCL, if true.
One possibility is that Russian reserves that secured the road into Liman were actually securing an exit path for the city garrison. They didn't look sufficient to counter-attack and correct the situation but might just be enough for that. There's no meaningful updates on Liman from Russian sources yet.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
ISW Updates.
These are deliberately posted without comment in order for members to reach their own conclusions.

Note: There's quite a lot to unpack in this update so I would advise reading the full article at the link below.

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment
September 30, 8:30 pm ET

Full article: Institute for the Study of War

The pdf can be downloaded here.

Main Points
.
  • Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the illegal Russian annexation of four Ukrainian territories on September 30 without clearly defining the borders of those claimed territories.
  • Putin announced that Russia’s usual autumn conscription cycle will start a month late on November 1, likely because Russia’s partial mobilization of Russian men is taxing the bureaucracy of the Russian military commissariats that would usually oversee the semi-annual conscription cycle.
  • Russian officials could re-mobilize last year’s conscripts when their terms expire on October 1.
  • Ukrainian forces will likely capture or encircle Lyman within the next 72 hours.
  • Ukrainian military officials maintained operational silence regarding Ukrainian ground maneuvers in Kherson Oblast but stated that Ukrainian forces continued to force Russian troops into defending their positions.
  • Russian troops continued ground assaults in Donetsk Oblast.
  • Russian authorities continued efforts to coerce Russian participation in mobilization efforts, but will likely struggle to coerce participation as Russians continue to flee Russia for border states who welcome them.
  • Russian officials are accepting bribes and engaging in other preferential treatment to prevent or ease the economic burden of mobilization on the wealthy.
  • Russian authorities are continuing to deploy mobilized personnel to Ukraine without adequate training or equipment, and personnel are unlikely to be able to afford to provide their own supplies.
  • Russian forces conducted a missile strike on a Ukrainian humanitarian convoy and attempted to blame the Ukrainian government.


Click here to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.

Russian President Vladimir Putin did not threaten an immediate nuclear attack to halt the Ukrainian counteroffensives into Russian-occupied Ukraine during his speech announcing Russia’s illegal annexation of Ukrainian territory.
ISW analysts broke down Putin’s speech in a separate September 30 Special Report: “Assessing Putin’s Implicit Nuclear Threats after Annexation.

Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the illegal Russian annexation of four Ukrainian territories on September 30 without clearly defining the borders of those claimed territories. Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov declined to specify the borders of the newly annexed territories in a September 30 conversation with reporters: "[the] Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics [DNR and LNR] were recognized by Russia within the borders of 2014. As for the territories of Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts, I need to clarify this. We will clarify everything today.”[1] DNR head Denis Pushilin added that even the federal district into which the annexed territories will be incorporated remains unclear: “What will it be called, what are the borders—let's wait for the final decisions, consultations are now being held on how to do it right.”[2] Russian officials may clarify those boundaries and administrative allocations in the coming days but face an inherent problem: Ukrainian forces still control large swathes of Donetsk and Zaporizhia and some areas of Luhansk and Kherson oblasts, a military reality that is unlikely to change in the coming months.

Putin likely rushed the annexation of these territories before making even basic administrative decisions on boundaries and governance. Russian officials have therefore not set clear policies or conditions for proper administration. Organizing governance for these four forcibly annexed oblasts would be bureaucratically challenging for any state after Russian forces systematically killed, arrested, or drove out the Ukrainian officials who previously ran the regional administrations. But the bureaucratic incompetence demonstrated by the Kremlin’s attempted partial mobilization of Russian men suggests that Russian bureaucrats will similarly struggle to establish governance structures over a resistant and unwilling population in the warzone that is Russian-occupied Ukrainian territory.

Putin announced that Russia’s usual autumn conscription cycle will start a month late on November 1, likely because Russia’s partial mobilization of Russian men is taxing the bureaucracy of the Russian military commissariats that would usually oversee the semi-annual conscription cycle.[3] Putin’s September 30 decree calls for 120,000 Russian conscripts—7,000 fewer than in autumn 2021. Neither Putin’s decree nor subsequent official statements clarified whether Ukrainian civilians of conscription age (18-27) in Russia’s newly-annexed occupied Ukrainian territories will be liable for conscription. A representative of Russia’s Main Organizational and Mobilization Directorate, Rear Admiral Vladimir Tsimlyansky, claimed that no autumn 2022 conscripts would fight in the “special operation” in Ukraine, a promise Putin also made (and broke) about the autumn 2021 and spring 2022 conscripts.[4] Russian conscripts are not legally deployable overseas until they have received at least four months of training unless Putin were to declare martial law.[5] Russia’s illegal annexation of occupied areas in Ukraine likely removes this problem within the framework of Russian Federation law, which may be part of the reason for Putin’s rush in announcing the annexation.

Russian officials could re-mobilize last year’s conscripts when their terms expire on October 1. Tsimlyansky emphasized on September 30 that all Russian conscripts whose terms have expired—meaning those conscripted in autumn 2021—will be released from service and returned to their residences “in a timely manner.”[6] Once released, autumn 2021 conscripts will technically become part of the Russian reserves, making them legally mobilizable under Putin’s September 21 partial mobilization order.

Putin invited some Russian milbloggers and war correspondents who have previously criticized the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) for a lack of transparency about Russian progress in Ukraine to attend his annexation speech in Moscow.[7] Russian state media has been increasingly featuring some milbloggers on federal television channels as well, which likely indicates that Putin is attempting to secure the support of these nationalist and pro-war figures rather than censor them. The milblogger presence in Moscow may also explain why several prominent Telegram channels had limited or no coverage of daily frontline news on September 29.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 1 of 3: Updates on Lyman & beyond

1. Besides entering Lyman, there are multiple reports of Ukrainian forces making contact with Russian forces near Kreminna to the west, and interdicting some Russian units that were attempting to withdraw from Lyman to Kreminna.

…Russian reserves that secured the road into Liman were actually securing an exit path for the city garrison. They didn't look sufficient to counter-attack…
2. The contacts with enemy are not properly geolocated but I suspect this Russian force as been wiped out by the Ukrainian Army based on initial reporting of the ugly fights there. For details see Kyle Mizokami’s Twitter feed.
“…There’s a video on Twitter somewhere purportedly from west of Kreminna. Actually just audio, nonstop gunfire.​
Lots, just us, maybe 140 dead Russians. Like hunting squirrels in a pecan orchard. I have to think Lyman is under our control, but we have no info on that.​
…A half-a-dozen Russians came into the woods where we were in a hide to catch our breath and eat, they almost ran into us, but as usual, were moving fast and talking. We cut them down before they knew what was happening. They had little ammo, no med kits, very little food, and no info at all on them except for their phones and some family stuff. Trying to get intel off stiffs here is a very disappointing exercise.”​
 
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Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
In addition to entering Lyman, there are multiple reports of Ukrainian forces making contact with Russian forces near Kreminna to the west, and interdicting some Russian units that were attempting to withdraw from Lyman to Kreminna.
I think it's safe to say that those Russians trapped in Lyman aren't going to fight to the death. So are they going to surrender or try to sneak out as smaller groups with a high chance of being killed along the way? The way things are going the former is probably the smart choice.

Which will be the next Russian-held settlement to fall afterwards?

EDIT: The BBC live feed says a video has been posted showing (unconfirmed) that the Ukrainian flag has been raised in Lyman. Perhaps the Russians have already fled, which is why there are stories about them being killed on the way out of the town.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 2 of 3: Updates on Lyman & beyond

3. Multiple reports now saying that Ukrainian Army managed to enter central parts of Lyman. After the liberation of Lyman, the Ukrainian counteroffensive in the northern Donetsk and southern Kharkiv oblast has liberated around 1,400 sq. km of Ukrainian land in 3 weeks.

EDIT: The BBC live feed says a video has been posted showing (unconfirmed) that the Ukrainian flag has been raised in Lyman. Perhaps the Russians have already fled, which is why there are stories about them being killed on the way out of the town.
4. Initial reports are like only a hundred plus Russians attempting evasion and escape, killed around Kreminna. I suspect the amount of Russian & DNR troops trapped in the area surrounding Lyman is more than a few hundred — as Lyman is an important railway junction. Seems Russia's efforts are already pivoting towards the defence of Kreminna in Luhansk.

5. I think it is possible that some of the Russian and DNR troops have retreated from the Lyman area — with others killed in the fight, captured or escaped. It seems like they are getting hit by Ukrainian recon forces while trying to leave. Some Ukrainian sources are estimating a larger number trapped — which I struggle to believe. Lyman does not seem to have the higher end troop estimates that some are making — I rather not guess and want to just wait for information to emerge in the coming week.

6. If I were in Ukrainian Commanders’ shoes, I would not recommend bothering to undertake white flag negotiations. Just keep pounding the Russian and DNR troops in Kreminna to dusk (if they can identify pockets of resistance). 8 years ago, where, "after days of encirclement, Ukrainian commander Yuriy Bereza came to an agreement with Russian commanders in Ilovaisk to allow Ukrainian troops to withdraw from the city"— but the Russian Command broke its word. The column was shot. Given that the Russian Commanders have a habit of lying, so Ukrainian Commanders are not going to risk their troops to help trapped enemy, if any.
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
Latest reports I've seen are that the Russians have said they have withdrawn from Lyman. No reports of numbers of prisoners.
 
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