Japan Air Self-Defence Force

King Wally

Member
It seems to me the Japanese love doing things the hard way. Once you factor in all the costs associated with developing your own 5th gen design or restarting a F-22 mark II production line (even if possible) I would have to assume you are going to end up with a cost per aircraft figure that would make the F-35 look like a bargain buy.

Didn't they follow a similar path years ago with their home grown F16/F2 variant... changing it to such an extent it would have been virtually the same cost to simply bulk buy high end F15's?
 

Ananda

Well-Known Member
Japan always want to improve their own domestic aviation industries capabilities. Present policy which already more open to export/global market, tend to potentially provide more economics of scale then they used to have (as previously they are only aimed to domestic market).

F-2 provide opportunity for their electronics and sensors development. Now for F-3, IHI already developing engine prototype with 15 ton wet (afterburner) thrust. That's already comparable with what GE, PW, or Lyuka engine produces today. Granted the US and Russian already working and produced higher thrust engine..still this mean Japan catching up fast on the engine development.

All they still lacking in experiences now in producing viable airframe design for military fighter. That's what seem they are aiming for F-3.
They way it shown, this is more on Japanese program to have developed domestic aviations industries for future self reliances.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
It seems to me the Japanese love doing things the hard way. Once you factor in all the costs associated with developing your own 5th gen design or restarting a F-22 mark II production line (even if possible) I would have to assume you are going to end up with a cost per aircraft figure that would make the F-35 look like a bargain buy.

Didn't they follow a similar path years ago with their home grown F16/F2 variant... changing it to such an extent it would have been virtually the same cost to simply bulk buy high end F15's?
The F-2 is got to be one of the strangest Military Procurement programs in History, spent a fortune to reinvent the Wheel when they had a perfectly good wheel to start with. One of the great what ifs is a more normalised modern Japanese Military that had been allowed to export Military equipment from much earlier.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Japan has always wanted to retain a basic infrastructure to produce some military kit. The refusal by the US to sell the F-22 was a wake-up call for Japan. The current US president is wake-call number two. I agree the cost of domestic production via license or actual R&D on a 5th Gen jet will be more expensive. Australia and Canada both justify domestic naval production in order to retain the necessary infrastructure for producing warships (along with jobs). If either country had Japan's technology resources in aviation, local production of jets would be likely too.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
The F-2 is got to be one of the strangest Military Procurement programs in History, spent a fortune to reinvent the Wheel when they had a perfectly good wheel to start with. One of the great what ifs is a more normalised modern Japanese Military that had been allowed to export Military equipment from much earlier.
the F-2 was an investment in developing skills & technology, maintaining the ability to build fast jets, & a degree of independence in other weapons & systems.

The radar of the F-2 is Japanese, & was the first operational AESA fighter radar in the world (though it had some serious flaws when first fielded - fixed long ago). The Japanese missiles developed to use with it didn't need US clearances to integrate with it, so no chance of the US saying "No - you have to buy American", as has sometimes happened when other countries wanted to use their own or other non-US weapons with US aircraft.

And so on . .
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Japan's F-35 order has been officially announced to be planned to increase to 147, including 42 F-35B.

Japan gov't looking to buy 105 more F-35 stealth fighters - The Mainichi

BTW, I saw my first C-2 last week, flying over the suburbs of Tokyo.
The introduction of the F-35 also means we are going to see the end of the venerable old Phantom fighter ... at least in Japan. I believe they are still in service with Turkey.

A farewell to the Phantom fleet, as Japan transitions to the F-35

Japan originally had 140 Phantoms with around half of them still in service after around 48 years service ... something for Canada to aspire to :)
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Canada kept SeaKings running for 50 years and our Hornet fleet is pushing 40 years. With our procurement record and junior in office, Japan’s record is likely to fall.:D
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Canada kept SeaKings running for 50 years and our Hornet fleet is pushing 40 years. With our procurement record and junior in office, Japan’s record is likely to fall.:D
Kiwi C-130s 53 years and still flying.
 

Ananda

Well-Known Member
Kiwi C-130s 53 years and still flying.
Indonesia still operate around 5 to 6 C-130B that first come from US in 1960 (make Indonesia one of the first C-130 users outside US), Courtesy to Kennedy diplomacy to Soekarno after CIA botched up in supporting Permesta rebellion in the 50's. If the plan replacement (C-130J) come to fruition in 2020..that makes those C-130B have 60 years in service.

And remember USAF will fly their B-52 G on planned to 2050..if that happen..this will make those B-52 close to '90' years in service.
Some Russian Bear also if not mistaken already in the 50's service..

With the cost of replacement procurement like now..I do believe the trend to keep some aircraft in the 40-50 years in service will keep coming up.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
So . . . the 140 F-35s are to replace older types & provide aircraft for ships, & the intention isn't to have an all-F-35 fleet.
 

Ananda

Well-Known Member
Boeing Begins Assembling First KC-46A Tanker for Japan

It's logical for Japan to used KC-46 as their new Tankers fleet, considering they already used converted 767 as Tankers.
Still I do hope, Boeing will tackle all KC-46 problem soon. As Boeing marketing KC-46 aggressively for Export market.

Italy from what I gather can be the next customers, as also Israel. Indonesian AF already put KC-46 as preferred tankers based on their publicise study report.
Still long way for Boeing to catch up A-330 MRTT commanding leads in Export market.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
DefenseNews reports that Japan will upgrade up to 98 of its F-15J interceptors to a “Japanese Super Interceptor (JSI) configuration,” which will see the addition of an advanced electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, new mission computers and electronic warfare equipment, as well as the integration of new munitions. The new radar will be the Raytheon AN/APG-82(v)1 multimode AESA set that is currently being fitted on the U.S. Air Force’s F-15E Strike Eagles. Japan had requested 103 radars, including six spare sets, along with 116 Honeywell Advanced Display Core Processor II mission computers and 101 BAE Systems AN/ALQ-239 digital electronic warfare systems among the suite of upgrades. The package also will include anti-spoofing GPS gear for more precise navigation, and new radios.

The JSI is close to the capabilities of the new F-15X (a future procurement program of record for the Pentagon's 2020 budget proposal) having air-to-ground capabilities with the AGM-158 Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile.

These newly upgraded F-15J aircraft will work in tandem with Japan’s F-35A/Bs in the near future. The rest of Japan’s F-15 fleet will not be upgraded to JSI standards. See: Japan gets US nod for $4.5 billion F-15 upgrade package
 
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Ananda

Well-Known Member
Japan defense budget hits record $50bn on new jet

Nikei article on Japan officially in for publicly that they prepared USD 50 billion budget to developed F2 replacement. ROK and Indonesia set USD 10 bio for development stage of KFX which using existing technology in the market. With that kind of budget indicating that Japan will used many new clean sheets tech their developing, in my opinion.
 
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