Indonesian Aero News

Ahmad

Active Member
Why shown there's KFX/IFX office in DI facilities as claim that DI position is superior compared to the International Partners in F-35 ? All the Partners in F-35 have their own F-35 project offices in their facilities.

Again, you have your own right for your opinions, but back it up in this forum.
It is not KFX/IFX office in DI facilities. It is clearly said Combined R&D Center Korea Indonesia. It is in South Korea. That is the office during first phase of development (2010-December 2013) which is technological development phase where Korea is represented by ADD Korea and Indonesian is represented by DI (and also Bandung Institute of Technology and Indonesia Air Force personnel)

The combined R&D is conducted in South Korea as senior partner of the program.

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Ananda

Well-Known Member
Doesn't mean anything to prove that DI position is higher than LM F-35 International Partners. LM clearly in their program including in their F-35 facilities also shown whose their international Partner. Including in LM own F-35 facilities.

Again you're the one that put claim DI is different than International Partners in F-35 program. Those International Partners are also Junior Partner on F-35 program, same as DI in KFX. Enlighten us why DI position as Junior Partner in KFX is higher than the Junior Partner in F-35 program.

Is DI has IP rights on KFX project ? Is DI has rights to market and production of KFX without KAI consents ? If you can prove that, then you can talk that DI has more rights in KFX compared to International Partners in F-35.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Another good news for Dirgantara Indonesia. Malaysian Air Force has send their CN235 to DI to do conversion into MPA/MSA plane.


View attachment 47670


By seeing how they write, I would recommend Malaysian to improve their Malay proficiency so it will not be difficult to find good Malay writer.
Yes, yesterday i posted an English language link in the RMAF thread.

I think this is the first time that an all-american maritime surveillance package will be installed in an CN235. Wait...ive to check first about the USCG CN235s...

Edit: It seems that a large part of the equipment is US-made. The HC-144A uses electronic systems on the Mission System Pallet roll-on, roll-off electronics suite from Lockheed-Martin, that connects to the aircraft's systems upon installation. I can not find what exactly these sensors and other equipment are.
"

I hope that more countries will follow with transport-->MPA conversions at IPTN after Malaysia.
 

Ahmad

Active Member
Yes, yesterday i posted an English language link in the RMAF thread.

I think this is the first time that an all-american maritime surveillance package will be installed in an CN235. Wait...ive to check first about the USCG CN235s...

Edit: It seems that a large part of the equipment is US-made. The HC-144A uses electronic systems on the Mission System Pallet roll-on, roll-off electronics suite from Lockheed-Martin, that connects to the aircraft's systems upon installation. I can not find what exactly these sensors and other equipment are.
"

I hope that more countries will follow with transport-->MPA conversions at IPTN after Malaysia.
It will be good to provide some integration jobs to DI and keep CN 235 production line still busy as Senegalese CN 235 MPA has already been finished and currently is undergoing some test before being delivered to Senegal. There is also big opportunity that the possible third plane deal will happen right after the delivery of the second Senegalese CN 235.

On the mean time, in the period of 2020-2024, there maybe another contract from our Armed Force as stated by Alman Helvas Twitter account while I have also seen the document saying Navy needs 4 additional CN 235.

 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
This is actually the first time that i hear that Penerbad also desire to get the CN235, until now it was just TNI-AU and Disnerbal.
Any idea if the CN235s will operate besides Penerbads NC212, or replace them? Also the rrquired amount of CN235 is unclear.
 

Ananda

Well-Known Member
Just put a screen shoot of PDF file from World Airforce 1971.
Reason I put it, just to shown a statement that Indonesia at that time in the talk for Mirage Acquisition. I also remember in the 70's (just entering primary school) an article from News Paper showing Mirage 3 come to Jakarta.

Mirage 3 facing F-5E as replacement for Mig 21. TNI-AU as we know in the 70's got ex RAAF Sabre as temporary replacement for Mig 21 for time being.
I put it this 49 years old magazines article, just to shown TNI-AU already has long history on considering French Fighters. Some local forums, blogspot or media talking on potential French Rafale news as a new approach for TNI-AU, but in truth Indonesian MinDef has long interaction history for potential used of French Fighters.

Besides Mirage 3 in the 70's, and Mirage 2000 as F-16 rivals in 1986 Indonesian Air Show, Dasault also has negotiations with IPTN on the late 80's and early 90's for Super Etandard license manufacturing. Those part of project for A-4 replacement which won by Hawk 200 (which also supposedly follow on by IPTN license Manufacturing).

I'm not saying that French will got the contract. However French is not a novice on dealing with Indonesian MinDef.
What ever the outcome, local Industry participation (in this case DI) will be in the table. Whether it's on Upgrade Project, Off Set deals on global parts manufacturing ecosystem, or outright License Manufacturing, it will be part of potential deals.

For DI, involvement with either one of the project will be part of their learning curve on Fighters Project. Thus politically it can be sold to the public. This's the thing that need to be understood. How to package Fighters deal that politically can be sold to the public is more important for this administration.

In truth, general public will not really care if DI got license Manufacturing or got Tech Transfer for Upgrade project or Off Set deals. It's more on political support in the Parliament that matters. Most of the public only want to see on the local Industry involvement as part of Administration full fill the promise to give more job to locals and reduce imports cost, what ever it's only cosmetic or really depth involvement.
 

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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Just put a screen shoot of PDF file from World Airforce 1971.
Reason I put it, just to shown a statement that Indonesia at that time in the talk for Mirage Acquisition. I also remember in the 70's (just entering primary school) an article from News Paper showing Mirage 3 come to Jakarta.

Mirage 3 facing F-5E as replacement for Mig 21. TNI-AU as we know in the 70's got ex RAAF Sabre as temporary replacement for Mig 21 for time being.
I put it this 49 years old magazines article, just to shown TNI-AU already has long history on considering French Fighters. Some local forums, blogspot or media talking on potential French Rafale news as a new approach for TNI-AU, but in truth Indonesian MinDef has long interaction history for potential used of French Fighters.

Besides Mirage 3 in the 70's, and Mirage 2000 as F-16 rivals in 1986 Indonesian Air Show, Dasault also has negotiations with IPTN on the late 80's and early 90's for Super Etandard license manufacturing. Those part of project for A-4 replacement which won by Hawk 200 (which also supposedly follow on by IPTN license Manufacturing).

I'm not saying that French will got the contract. However French is not a novice on dealing with Indonesian MinDef.
What ever the outcome, local Industry participation (in this case DI) will be in the table. Whether it's on Upgrade Project, Off Set deals on global parts manufacturing ecosystem, or outright License Manufacturing, it will be part of potential deals.

For DI, involvement with either one of the project will be part of their learning curve on Fighters Project. Thus politically it can be sold to the public. This's the thing that need to be understood. How to package Fighters deal that politically can be sold to the public is more important for this administration.

In truth, general public will not really care if DI got license Manufacturing or got Tech Transfer for Upgrade project or Off Set deals. It's more on political support in the Parliament that matters. Most of the public only want to see on the local Industry involvement as part of Administration full fill the promise to give more job to locals and reduce imports cost, what ever it's only cosmetic or really depth involvement.
Ah...that is your secret, thats why you know so much what happen in the past, details you can't find on the internet, and the young netizens do not know about these days....you are even older than me, you are my senpai!

In an Angkasa (from the '90s or begin '00s) i saw photos of a scale model Mirage 2000 in TNI-AU colours on B.J.Habibie's desk. At that time i was confused, only later i understand it was a promotion gift.

Btw, reading the Flight International of 1971, i didn't know Disnerbal also had MiG-19 and MiG-21, i thought only the airforce.


I do not know the price of these upgrade packages, but if TNI-AU's C-130Hs have enough hours left over, it can be an attractive upgrade.
 
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Ananda

Well-Known Member
reading the Flight International of 1971, i didn't know Disnerbal also had MiG-19 and MiG-21, i thought only the airforce.
Mig 19 already read it long time ago from Jane's Fighting Ships edition in 70's (I read it on CSIS library during finding data on my dissertation). However I'm bit surprised on Mig 21. Perhaps they have slight miss information. Jane's shown Indonesian Navy operate Mig 19 and IL-28. While the Flight International put IL-28 operate by Air Force only. However I did see old pictures on TNI-AL IL-28 of maritime strike version. So I tend to agree with Jane's that TNI-AL on that period operate Mig 19 and IL-28.


thats why you know so much what happen in the past, details you can't find on the internet,
He,he.. already put it actually in this thread or other Indonesian threads. I'm coming from generation that in 1986 Indonesia Air Show being told by school to cut class and coming to Air Show. In 1996 Air Show I already work as entry level Junior Officer in a Bank that accompany my Boss entering the Air Show on non public day.

I accompany My Bos on N2130 session, where I ask him why we were there. He simply say, all the Banks being asked to find money to support the project. Can you imagine if that continue happen ? Means the overall Indonesian Financial Industry has to leverage themselves to finance it. That's one of good thing the financial crisis happen. It's stop that kind of unfeasible Project (from Financial perspective).

This's why I said that on one of my previous post, that it's not IMF and World Bank that killed N250 and N2130, as many local forums, blogspot and media put it. IMF and World Bank simply say that IPTN has to find their own funding and Investors to finance the project.

Our own technocrats and Financial Industry simply has no appetite to finance the project, because they don't see Financial Feasibility on the projects. IPTN already try to find Investor for N250, but no serious Investors want to join. Those Investors own study from raise doubt if N250 will be able to compete well with ATR and Dash 8. Not because it's quality, but because it's too sophisticated for turboprop market.
That's why I said in my previous post, Habibie is brilliant Engineer, but not a good commercial CEO.

In that meeting at 1996 Air Show, we also see all the ambitious project that Habibie's plan. Including Light Helicopters, 1200 ton Submarine, Minehunters, National Corvettes (with Fincantieri) and Missile projects in form of SSM and even 300km cruise missiles. Those projects being scheduled to be ready in 5-10 years time from 1996.
I remember My Bos muttered and saying "how the heck this country can finance those in such short period" ?

What being envisage for Domestic Defense Industry, is actually following the blue print being prepared from Soeharto era. I just wish now being plan more realistically and with more market Feasibility. You can't build Defense Industry that only can depend on continuous Government Injection. While in the same time still don't shown independent financial capabilities to compete commercially.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Ill read and react later on your post.

Edit: thank you for your explanation and story. I never got the chance to visit IAS '86 or '96, but i was lucky to see the official first flight on 10 augustus 1995 on the television. And in real life in Paris Air Show 1997 in Le Bourget!

Now quickly something about KFX. I could have post it in the KFX thread, but because the links are in Bahasa Indonesia, ill post them here.
CNBC Indonesia often post fanboyish style newsreports, but these two articles are of an acceptable quality.

Wamenhan Trenggono has a very negative view on this project. But i have my doubt about his knowledge.
According to him: "Saya nggak tahu berapa miliar dollar yang mesti kita siapkan di sini. China saja bikin J-20 habis ratusan miliar dollar kan," kata Trenggono."
So according to him the J-20 is as expensive as the JSF/F-35



" Belum lama ini Indonesia dilaporkan menunggak kewajiban penyetoran dana sebagai bagian dari partisipasi Indonesia di proyek KF-X ini yang harusnya sudah disetor pada Agustus 2020 secara penuh."

So reading these articles, in my opinion we can expect that the Indonesian participation will end. Specially for KAI it will be better if the junior partner will retire itself.

Hopefully this partnership can be transformed into a licence production of the T-50 or KFX.
 
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Ahmad

Active Member
Is this a cruise missile ???? I think it is part of the reverse engineering program where Dirgantara Indonesia becomes the lead consortium. There is LEN Industry as well on the consortium. The program contract has been signed some times ago. I dont know whether we can get something substantial for this one and can hopefully got dynamic test before this administration ends. While the seeker has already done a dynamic test using Petir cruise missile in 2019.

http://instagr.am/p/CEqVv-MgGku/
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Is this a cruise missile ???? I think it is part of the reverse engineering program where Dirgantara Indonesia becomes the lead consortium. There is LEN Industry as well on the consortium. The program contract has been signed some times ago. I dont know whether we can get something substantial for this one and can hopefully got dynamic test before this administration ends. While the seeker has already done a dynamic test using Petir cruise missile in 2019.

http://instagr.am/p/CEqVv-MgGku/
"While the seeker has already done a dynamic test using Petir cruise missile in 2019." !?!?
Sounds like they test a new seeker on an already operational cruise missile.

I am sorry, ive never heard Indonesia was working on a seeker, or seriously working on a cruise missile.

Those LAPAN rockets are absolutely no cruise missiles, Indonesia is until now not able to build "simple" MANPADS, or short range air-to-surface missiles, or anti-ship missiles.
So lets not get too excited...

Edit:
I found something....with all respect, but these are just two target drones..
 
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Ahmad

Active Member
"While the seeker has already done a dynamic test using Petir cruise missile in 2019." !?!?
Sounds like they test a new seeker on an already operational cruise missile.

I am sorry, ive never heard Indonesia was working on a seeker, or seriously working on a cruise missile.

Those LAPAN rockets are absolutely no cruise missiles, Indonesia is until now not able to build "simple" MANPADS, or short range air-to-surface missiles, or anti-ship missiles.
So lets not get too excited...
Petir is not an operational cruise missile bro........Yup the seeker has been tested according to Defense Minister official website. I will not disclose further.

I dont think that is rocket that is developed by LAPAN (Rhan 122 or RX 450). The nozel doesnt look like rocket nozel.

This is more revealing picture. All of the planes, UAV, and cruise missile models are examined under Indonesian wind tunnel facility, BBTA3. There is KFX/IFX C 103 as well.

 

tonnyc

Active Member
LAPAN is first and foremost a space agency. Their goal is to be able to send satellites on their own. They will hand over their data to the Ministry of Defense and cooperate with them because they're both state institutions, but Lapan's goal is space. They'll keep trying to improve the rockets and if the MoD want to take the technical blueprints and turn it into rocket artillery, that's up to the MoD.

PT Sari Bahari is a private company who makes bombs for TNI. Their claim that it's a cruise missile is technically true since there's no hard definition on what a cruise missile is, but really it's a RC aircraft microturbine jet in a missile-like chassis. With a 22 kgf engine it can maybe carry a few kg of warhead. Jet engines of that class are freely available in the market for a few thousand dollars to tens of thousands of dollars. Their most common use are hobbyist RC aircraft for rich people, though there is a secondary use as target drones.

Ignore the bombastic claim. It's useful as a tool to test TNI's missile defense capability though.
 

Ahmad

Active Member
Petir is more like kamikaze drone and it can be useful as well as we can see Houtis use it to attack Saudi assets. If their claim is true that it can reach 80 km so that is a useful vehicle. I said it as cruise missile because it is what they claim. I also dont buy it, but it is their well known name which is popularized by Indonesian journalist/publication. I dont talk about Petir here, but other cruise missile which development is lead by Dirgantara Indonesia and there is PT LEN Industry as well.

I bring Petir on discussion because our government researcher use that platform to test their seeker, I will not reveal which institution who do the research, but it is an indigenous seeker development.

Here is Petir seen in the exibition, so look like the seeker is infra red homing seeker

1600181138244.png

What I want to discuss is the one which is seen in that BBTA3 instagram. Youtube video that I posted earlier also show that there is cruise missile program under development. I can say that it is good that we are trying to research cruise missile and from instagram photo that I posted, the program look like is still going on. I hope that they can make some break through on turbo jet development as well.
 
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tonnyc

Active Member
I dont know if its already discussed before here, but is the Saab Skeldar V-200 really delivered to Indonesia, and which component/branch of the Indonesian Armed Forces use it?

One unit was definitely delivered to the Coast Guard in February 2017 out of three that was ordered. However the Coast Guard budget was drastically slashed in 2017 so it's possible the rest was cancelled. Certainly I can't find any news confirming the presence of three V-200. If you look at this AIN article you can read that they say one was sold to Indonesia for R&D but later flew on anti-piracy duties.

There is a different Skeldar drone operating in the Army. Three F-330, sold via an Indonesian intermediary and renamed as Rajawali-330 (and of course, "locally made"). But for the V-200 version, let's just say that currently there is one confirmed unit. There might be more, but so far only one confirmed.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
One unit was definitely delivered to the Coast Guard in February 2017 out of three that was ordered. However the Coast Guard budget was drastically slashed in 2017 so it's possible the rest was cancelled. Certainly I can't find any news confirming the presence of three V-200. If you look at this AIN article you can read that they say one was sold to Indonesia for R&D but later flew on anti-piracy duties.

There is a different Skeldar drone operating in the Army. Three F-330, sold via an Indonesian intermediary and renamed as Rajawali-330 (and of course, "locally made"). But for the V-200 version, let's just say that currently there is one confirmed unit. There might be more, but so far only one confirmed.
Thank you for the link!

Btw, i just found this video, uploaded 9 hours ago. They congratulate the testpilots, but it is unclear if they finished their flightprogram in Nusawiru, or the whole program for the certification is finished. The only thing you hear is a dumb useless backgroundmusic.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
This seems to be a part of the text of a 144 pages report from Kemenkeu.

It looks like that one of the main reasons that the process of the acquisition of Russian defence systems stucks, is because of american pressure/threats.

pesawat tempur = Su-35
heli angkut sedang = Mi-17
tank/apc = BMP-3F dan BT-3F http://www.anggaran.kemenkeu.go.id/assets/FTPPortal/Peraturan/Berita/PIDATO MENTERI KEUANGAN PADA RAPAT PARIPURNA DPR RI TENTANG JAWABAN PEMERINTAH ATAS PEMANDANGAN UMUM RUU APBN 2021/Jawaban Pemerintah.pdf
 

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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

I think some time ago a youtubevideo about this system was already posted here.
Its an interesting sensor, this Vera-NG.


The plan is to install one of this systems at Natuna.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Two Su-30MK2 dropped 12 P-250L live bombs each during an exercise. Relatively cheap and spectacular for the spectators. Seems that this is the first time Indonesia's Sukhois performed a night bombardment.

For some reason there are no heavier domestic freefall bombs in production as far as i know.
 
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