Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Ananda

Well-Known Member

Indonesian Ministry of State Owned Enterprise (SOE) put lists of SOE that will receive additional capital of Investment. Among those is PT. PAL shipyard. The amount translate to USD 90-95 Mio (depends on forex rate), which is same amount that PAL need to finish second phase of it's Submarine Facilities yard.

Thus this shown, whichever next submarine batch choose it will be build and assembly at PAL facility in Surabaya. In my opinion it is put DSME as strongest candidate as Partner for next batch as it's already involved much with PAL learning curve.

Off course another partner can also take over, but it's means can be more costly for PAL on another learning curve set. Unless the other potential partners can cover the adjustment on learning curve process.

Attach is the slide from PT. PAL sources (around 2018/19, I think I already put link on that in this thread), which I put it again shown their submarine facilities cut out.
 

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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

Indonesian Ministry of State Owned Enterprise (SOE) put lists of SOE that will receive additional capital of Investment. Among those is PT. PAL shipyard. The amount translate to USD 90-95 Mio (depends on forex rate), which is same amount that PAL need to finish second phase of it's Submarine Facilities yard.

Thus this shown, whichever next submarine batch choose it will be build and assembly at PAL facility in Surabaya. In my opinion it is put DSME as strongest candidate as Partner for next batch as it's already involved much with PAL learning curve.

Off course another partner can also take over, but it's means can be more costly for PAL on another learning curve set. Unless the other potential partners can cover the adjustment on learning curve process.

Attach is the slide from PT. PAL sources (around 2018/19, I think I already put link on that in this thread), which I put it again shown their submarine facilities cut out.
So this fascility will be build in Surabaya. Will it be build on existing land (on empty space or old buildings sacrificed for it) or will a new piece of land added to the PAL complex?

How about the submarine base in Palu, is it finished, on hold, or damaged because of the earthquake and tsunami?

And what is the foreign warship doing there on the left side of the image? :-D
 

Ananda

Well-Known Member
this fascility will be build in Surabaya. Will it be build on existing land (on empty space or old buildings sacrificed for it) or will a new piece of land added to the PAL complex?
The additional capital Investment is to build facilities that in the slide being put in the yellow. So this's for the 2nd phase of Submarine facilities. They already invest around USD 100 Mio for 1st phase, thus the whole submarine yard seems needed around USD 190-200 mio.

As the warship image on the slide, I remember when this slide come out on line couple years ago, in one of local forums some Russian fanboys talking (quite seriously) about sign that TNI-AL want to buy ex Russian Destroyers and being modified by PAL (as the image shown resemblance with Russian/Sovyet era Destroyers)... talk about fanboys imagination ;)
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Maybe a little bit too late, but i hesitated where to post, there is no thread for artwork, so i just post it here.

I was inpired by drawings of Nihonkoku Shoukan, combined with the 75 years of our independence, i decided to make this quick drawing. Photos on the internet of KRI Oswald Siahaan 354 i used as a reference for the frigate, and for the background i used an old photo taken by myself as reference. Sketch on paper, finished with Wacom Intuos and Ps CS3.

So, for everyone here who come from Indonesia : Selamat Hari Kemerdekaan 17 Agustus!
 

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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Although the delivery ceremony was already in Februari this year, i just found this video of KRI Bontang 907. The KRI Bontang 907 looks quite massive in birdview. With 125,5 meter long its slightly larger than the 122 m long KRI Tarakan 905, and with that its the largest naval tanker built in Indonesia.
Those two guns at the front, looks like 20 mm to me, Rheinmetall?

More info: Kapal Tanker KRI Bontang 907 Resmi Masuk Kedinasan Satban Koarmada I
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Maybe a little bit too late, but i hesitated where to post, there is no thread for artwork, so i just post it here.

I was inpired by drawings of Nihonkoku Shoukan, combined with the 75 years of our independence, i decided to make this quick drawing. Photos on the internet of KRI Oswald Siahaan 354 i used as a reference for the frigate, and for the background i used an old photo taken by myself as reference. Sketch on paper, finished with Wacom Intuos and Ps CS3.

So, for everyone here who come from Indonesia : Selamat Hari Kemerdekaan 17 Agustus!
Nice piece of artwork there. A big BZ - well done.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I just found this article
and i am quite surprised about the modern up-to-date interior in the KRI Yos Sudarso 353. I know these ships all got a new engine during modernization a decade ago, but it seems that they also got a complete new control room. It looks like some kind of weapon and sensor control room /combat information center. Does it even make sense if they still use the old HSA LW-03, DA-05 en M45 radarsystems?
 

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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Interesting...

It can be 'a sign' (that the Naval Group wants to offer the Frégates de taille intermédiaire) , an overenthousiast act of Naval Group (that they will win the contest from Koninklijke Schelde and the Odense Staalskibsværft) or a standard procedure (to prevent Indonesian shipyards will steal the design).
 

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Ananda

Well-Known Member
It looks like some kind of weapon and sensor control room /combat information center
It's the first project from what I heard from Indonesian LEN. The CMS build by them and LEN with some local vendors also playing with Van Speijk sensors, upgrading them and integrated them to their build CIC. Rumours saying that this project give LEN enough exposures on Air Defense 2D Radar to build their own prototype.
Right now they working with Leonardo for 3D air Defense radar system.


that the Naval Group wants to offer the Frégates de taille intermédiaire) ,
Naval Group already known to offer this Belhara design to Indonesian Navy since last Indodefense in 2018. Iver already got preliminary contract, and this will be what can be call 1st class Frigates. However the question right know is will Naval Group replace Damen as Partner for 2nd class Frigates (PKR size class). There's rumours that PAL not really satisfied with DAMEN PKR, especially on the scope of work share. Again this is just rumours, as seems TNI AL seems quite satisfied with Sigma 10514 PKR.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
@Ananda So have OMT received a contract for preliminary design work on an Indonesian variant of their F370 class frigates? The Royal Danish Navy have this design in service as the Iver Huitfeld class and it's the base design for the UK RN Type 31 frigate.
 

Ananda

Well-Known Member
@ngatimozart , so far the condition still same officially with what I posted on #1004. Seems now they're still talking on detail of work share agreement. Iver design so far still in safe possition for getting definite contract.

There're rumours that PAL and Odense also talking on inserting hull plugs modules to make the design bit longer. This make the negotiations bit longer. Again it's just rumours, but I do tend to see they're talking on work sharing agreement more, as this seems that become problem on continuation with Damen Sigma PKR. Thus perhaps PAL and Odense discuss more on this, so they will not have repeat problem as with Damen.
 
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ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
@ngatimozart , so far the condition still same officially with what I posted on #1004. Seems now they're still talking on detail of work share agreement. Iver design so far still in safe possition for getting definite contract.

There're rumours that PAL and Odense also talking on inserting hull plugs modules to make the design bit longer. This make the negotiations bit longer. Again it's just rumours, but I do tend to see they're talking on work sharing agreement more, as this seems that become problem on continuation with Damen Sigma PKR. Thus perhaps PAL and Odense discuss more on this, so they will not have repeat problem as with Damen.
Thanks. The OMT F370 design is adaptable because it is basically the RDN Absalon support ship design.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
It's the first project from what I heard from Indonesian LEN. The CMS build by them and LEN with some local vendors also playing with Van Speijk sensors, upgrading them and integrated them to their build CIC. Rumours saying that this project give LEN enough exposures on Air Defense 2D Radar to build their own prototype.
Right now they working with Leonardo for 3D air Defense radar system.

Naval Group already known to offer this Belhara design to Indonesian Navy since last Indodefense in 2018. Iver already got preliminary contract, and this will be what can be call 1st class Frigates. However the question right know is will Naval Group replace Damen as Partner for 2nd class Frigates (PKR size class). There's rumours that PAL not really satisfied with DAMEN PKR, especially on the scope of work share. Again this is just rumours, as seems TNI AL seems quite satisfied with Sigma 10514 PKR.
Its actually quite remarkable that LEN is able to integrate the old Dutch sensors and CMS with the P800 Yakhont and Chinese Exocet copies in one working system.

We just have to wait how the PKR/Van Speijk class replacement and large frigate projects will turn out. "Rumours" are often just based on a combination of real developments, tiny parts of unconnected information and wild fantasies.

Besides that, we are still in the jokowi-era.


Something else.
Numbers 12 and 13 of the PC-40 class patrolboats have been launched at Batam.

Thats quite fast, because last month numbers 10 and 11 were launched (at another shipyard).

 
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Ananda

Well-Known Member

A month ago, I put an article from Jane's that talked about Indonesian plan to get the last of Bremen class Frigates. This news just like the news of getting second hand Eurofighters from Austria already got so much discussion. Mostly negative especially from Prabowo's politicall rivals.

However now his Deputy talked with media that all of that still part of studies and assessment. Seems it's part of their strategy to put or can be said 'leaking' some information to media local and International. Got some controversial scope, and see how's it response.

It can be part of their intentions to 'clouded' their real intentions. One thing for sure, the COVID situation also play part for them to prolonging the 'study' in order soften the potential negative response on high cost Defense acquisition, during pandemic situation.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

A month ago, I put an article from Jane's that talked about Indonesian plan to get the last of Bremen class Frigates. This news just like the news of getting second hand Eurofighters from Austria already got so much discussion. Mostly negative especially from Prabowo's politicall rivals.

However now his Deputy talked with media that all of that still part of studies and assessment. Seems it's part of their strategy to put or can be said 'leaking' some information to media local and International. Got some controversial scope, and see how's it response.

It can be part of their intentions to 'clouded' their real intentions. One thing for sure, the COVID situation also play part for them to prolonging the 'study' in order soften the potential negative response on high cost Defense acquisition, during pandemic situation.4
With or without Covid-19, we have a huge gap to close, we are still lagging behind too much.
The last 6 years almost nothing is spend on strengthening our naval forces, just an LPD and some small patrolboats. Also not on the air force, and just some armoured vehicles and artillery for the army.

Defence is not for prestige, its for survival, to defend our territory and keep illegal activity out of our EEZ. Regardless the opposition, press and 'online experts' react, we have to spend billions on it.

Im not surprised if in the end of Jokowi's second term still nothing happened.
So in the end, as always, lets wait and see the developments (or the lack of it).
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I dont have the patience to listen for more than 15 mnts to their uninteresting story, so i did not watch the whole video, but we can see here the submarine facility.
Its spacy enough to build one sub and perform overhaul on a second one.
Even if our current administration refuses to order more submarines (which will cause that the expertise and experience to build/assemble Type 209 submarines will be lost), PAL will still be able to perform MRO on the boats of TNI-AL.


LPD/Hospitalship update.
 

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