Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[tonnyc]

Dont forget that PAL also has to build the two additional 123 m LPDs for the Philippine Navy.

What the Indonesian government has to do is to expand PAL's complex into the sea.

This shouldn't be an issue. I expect the submarine negotiation will take years to finish and the frigate preparation work to take a couple years too. Meanwhile based on previous experience the Philippine landing docks should take less than two years to finish each with both taking a total of three years, I expect. And out of those three years the graving dock will be needed for maybe one and a half year. So the Philippine LDs should have been launched and out of the graving dock before the keel-laying for the frigate starts.

This doesn't mean that they shouldn't expand PAL's facilities. It's just that the Philippine LD alone won't affect the timetable.

 

[Ananda]

Currently PAL log work consists of 2 Philippines LPD and 2 Arrowhead Frigates. By last quarter of this year, First keel of Arrowhead already put and First steel of Philippines LPD already cut. The LPD modules being work in Commercial/General shipbuilding facilities, while the Frigate modules in more specialise naval facilities.

The General shipbuilding facilities adjacent to larger (50K tones) Semarang graving dock, that before shown able to handle 2 LPD assembly works together. While Naval facilities adjacent to smaller (20K tones) Irian graving dock. Thus in theory the modules of those LPD can be assembly in Semarang Dock, while the modules of Frigate can be assemble in Irian Dock. The Submarine work will be done on seperate facility, thus will not use Naval and General Shipbuilding facilities.

Just to add, that working pararel on LPD and Frigate and Submarine still within PAL current capacity. However means they can only do 2-4 LPD, 2 Frigate and 2 Submarine within 60 months period. This means that's the limit what they can do within their existing facility for end of this decade. Which is why if MinDef wants more Frigate and Submarines to be operational within this decade, they have to work it out on overseas yard. As I don't see other domestic yards can have enough learning curve for Frigate and Submarine within this decade.

We already see other yards now begin taking more jobs for Patrol Boats and OPV. Perhaps they can also move to Corvette and Light Frigate. More then that they need more learning curve. Which looking on how PAL at this moment still in learning curve for Larger Frigate and Submarine, will need at least another decade for other yards to come to that stage. This off course with condition enough order come from MinDef to justify them to build into that capacity.

Still comercial wise, I just don't see sustainable large order from MinDef can be hope by other domestic/private yards to justify them build in capacity for larger naval vessels. Most likely Indonesian Navy or other maritime agencies, will relied their back bone fleet to litoral sizes ships (Thus Corvette/Light Frigate below). So there won't be enough order for other private yards to invest for larger and specialise naval vessels capabilities.

Thus potentialy larger and more specialise naval vessels will still be build only by PAL. Which's back to their current limited facilities. However instead enlarge existing capacity in current space, better government incorporated other SOE yards under PAL. For example Jakarta Kodja Bahari yard better be incorporated under PAL, thus PAL can take over that yard as their second facility. Those other SOE yards basically underperforming as commercials entities anyway.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

First of all, a Blessed and Healthy 2024 for everyone here!
There was a lot of activities in the end of 2023, so here an overview.

On 4 December private shipyard PT Citra Shipyard in Batam, delivered two 29 m patrol boats, KAL Sembulungan and KAL Hinako, each equipped with 1x 20mm M71/08 cannon made by a Serbian state-owned company, Yugoimport–SDPR, on its forward deck.


On 8 December, TNI-AL received one 30 meter long azimuth stern drive (ASD) harbour tug boat, the TD Ranai, which is built by PT Noahtu Shipyard in North Jakarta. The unarmed tugboat is capable of reaching a maximum speed of 12 knots, the tug has a total displacement of 750 tons, accommodations for 10 crew members, and an endurance of five day. These tugboats are also equipped with fire fighting and oil spill dispersant systems.

The navy already received two in August and a total of eight tug boats are ordered from the company, so five more will follow later.


On 20 December PT Palindo Marine Batam has handed over two new vessels to TNI-AL, the PC-60 KRI Marlin 877 and a small special combatboat KAL Jefman III-14-13. KRI Marlin 877 is at the moment armed with an old 3rd/4th-hands reused Bofors 40 mm main gun. KRI Marlin 877 is the fourth ship of the PC-60 Dorang Class, in total 6 patrolboats of this class are ordered. It is quite remarkable that with double the length of the 30-meter long tugboat descibed here above, the PC-60 boats has only a displacement of 520 ton.

Jefman has three machine gun mounts, each fitted with bulletproof shields on its front and sides, besides this it has a STANAG Level 2 ballistic protection and a top speed of 47 knots.

Indonesian Navy Aims to Buy More Locally-Built Vessels in 2024 - Naval News

The Indonesian Navy (TNI AL) received several domestically-built vessels as part of its modernisation programme. This trend will continue...

www.navalnews.com

TNI-AL already announced that it will order more patrol ships and special mission boats in 2024.

 

[Ananda]

Capaian PT PAL Indonesia dalam Penguasaan Teknologi di Kancah Industri Pertahanan Surabaya (08/01) – Memulai dari akhir, mengakhiri di awal, adalah warisan berharga dari Presiden ke-3 B.J. Habibie. PT PAL Indonesia menerjemahkan filosofi ini dengan konsisten, melalui peran Sumber Daya Manusia (SDM) lokal sebagai pondasi utama penguasaan Ilmu Pengetahuan dan Teknologi (IPTEK). Kapal perang, sebagai simbol diplomasi pertahanan nasional, menjadi medium mewujudkan visi ini. Sehingga fenomena ini menjadi satu kesempatan yang harus kita ambil alih. Menuju dasawarsa ke-5, PT PAL mengukir sejumlah langkah signifikan dalam ranah teknologi, mempercepat evolusi di industri pertahanan melalui penguasaan teknologi kunci untuk mewujudkan negara maju yang berdaulat. #PenguasaanTeknologi #InovasiPertahanan #PALIndonesia | PT PAL Indonesia | PT PAL Indonesia · Original audio

Capaian PT PAL Indonesia dalam Penguasaan Teknologi di Kancah Industri Pertahanan Surabaya (08/01) – Memulai dari akhir, mengakhiri di awal, adalah warisan berharga dari Presiden ke-3 B.J. Habibie....

www.facebook.com

New year and PAL put short video on naval design that they claim they are already work out. On Multipurpose Ships two of the design 123m LPD and 124 m Hospital Ship are Makasar class base design. They are then enlarge the design for 163m LPD that seems UAE will be the first customer. The last design is for LHD, something that's being talk but so far the design not finalise. Perhaps now the design already reach that stage.

Frigate clearly they are continuing work on Arrowhead Base design. Hopefully this is could be the standard Frigate for TNI-AL. No matter the talk with Fincantieri or even Mitsubishi, hopefully those talk only for additional frigate to fill the gap due to PAL productivity timeline.

Quite interesting they are still continue put that UUV design. Many still sceptical on PAL capabilities to play on this niche segment. After all PAL learning curve on Submarine design, has not reach maturity yet. Still those designs that PAL officially claim what they already master and working on.

 

[koxinga]

Quite interesting they are still continue put that UUV design. Many still sceptical on PAL capabilities to play on this niche segment. After all PAL learning curve on Submarine design, has not reach maturity yet. Still those designs that PAL officially claim what they already master and working on.

I remember something like this to be worked on by BRIN no? Or one of the earlier research agencies. While it is good that SOE spend their own funds on R&D, it still needs to be coordinated. PT Republika is also working on this, but with collaboration with DRASS. It seems to be a duplication of effort.

 

[Ananda]

While it is good that SOE spend their own funds on R&D, it still needs to be coordinated. PT Republika is also working on this, but with collaboration with DRASS. It seems to be a duplication of effort.

DRASS and Republika project is for license manufacturing of DG550 Midget Sub. It is not related to PT. PAL UUV, and supposedly going to be build at shipyard in Batam.

While PAL UUV in that video related to this:

PT PAL Indonesia dan Diehl Defence Kembangkan Kapal Selam Tanpa Awak dengan Artificial Intelligence

Dalam upaya menjaga kedaulatan negara dan memenuhi kebutuhan pertahanan bawah laut Indonesia, PT PAL Indonesia tengah mengembangkan produk terbaru yakni Kapal Selam Autonomous (KSOT) atau dikenal dengan label kapal selam tanpa awak – Unmanned Underwater Vehicle (UUV). Baca juga: AL Australia...

www.indomiliter.com

Keren, PAL Indonesia Kembangkan Kapal Selam Tanpa Awak

PT PAL Indonesia diketahui tengah melakukan pengembangan terhadap kapal selam tanpa awak atau autonomos.

www.liputan6.com

Something that they are working with Diehl Defense from Germany. They call it Autonomous Submarine or Kapal Selam Otonomous in Indonesian. Which way they shorten in as KSOT.

Still I agree with you on better coordination on defense project. That's always problem in Indonesia for better coordination. For one thing I still have no idea how they are going to finance all of this. No defense company in Indonesia whether SOE or Private ones going to pour their own money, until clear interest and financing from MinDef.

That Stealth Patrol Boat build by Lundin is clear example. It is so far end up as one prototype program.

 

[koxinga]

A couple of tweets showing the latest iteration of the LHD design. Don't think this is funded yet, just PT PAL trying to drum up interest.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1744678583321436242

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A couple of tweets showing the latest iteration of the LHD design. Don't think this is funded yet, just PT PAL trying to drum up interest.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1744678583321436242

I think these are the same images as from post #2564.
But as far as i know TNI-AL is not seriously interested in an LHD, probably not even in a 163 m LPD. Maybe someone can correct me if i am wrong.

 

[Ananda]

as far as i know TNI-AL is not seriously interested in an LHD, maybe not even in a 163 m LPD. Maybe someone can correct me if i am wrong.

There's something behind UAE deal on that 163m LPD, that I suspect make UAE agree to become 1st customer.

UAE Procures LPD from Indonesian Shipbuilder PT PAL - Naval News

UAE signed a contract worth $408 million with the Indonesian shipbuilder PT PAL for the procurement of a 163-meter LPD.

www.navalnews.com

This deal basically give opportunity for PAL to build the design, and work on installation of more advance systems and automation that PAL ussualy work with TNI and Philippines order. Rumours says that UAE companies involvement on sourcing those tech. This is my suspicion so far base on mostly rumours. Still if the design prove to be satisfactory, potential TNI order in my opinion will be there. The deals smell as more UAE and Indonesian industrial co-op behind it.

As LHD, I do believe there's genuine TNI interest on the concept. However I don't see this will become priority within this decade. That UAE LPD cost USD 400 mio, and that LHD can cost at least double then that. PAL CEO just try to build more public interest. LPD 163 follow up order for TNI-AL in my suspicion more likely after UAE order. That LPD supposedly will begin first steel cut within this year. Getting 2 163m LPD will be more preferable then 1 LHD. Besides, TNI-AL doesn't have enough 'proper' escort yet for accompany even one LHD.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

There's something behind UAE deal on that 163m LPD, that I suspect make UAE agree to become 1st customer.

UAE Procures LPD from Indonesian Shipbuilder PT PAL - Naval News

UAE signed a contract worth $408 million with the Indonesian shipbuilder PT PAL for the procurement of a 163-meter LPD.

www.navalnews.com

This deal basically give opportunity for PAL to build the design, and work on installation of more advance systems and automation that PAL ussualy work with TNI and Philippines order. Rumours says that UAE companies involvement on sourcing those tech. This is my suspicion so far base on mostly rumours. Still if the design prove to be satisfactory, potential TNI order in my opinion will be there. The deals smell as more UAE and Indonesian industrial co-op behind it.

As LHD, I do believe there's genuine TNI interest on the concept. However I don't see this will become priority within this decade. That UAE LPD cost USD 400 mio, and that LHD can cost at least double then that. PAL CEO just try to build more public interest. LPD 163 follow up order for TNI-AL in my suspicion more likely after UAE order. That LPD supposedly will begin first steel cut within this year. Getting 2 163m LPD will be more preferable then 1 LHD. Besides, TNI-AL doesn't have enough 'proper' escort yet for accompany even one LHD.

Oh yes, i totally forgot about this UAE order, thank you.

According to the Navalnews article from March 2023 :
|"the LPD will be built in Surabaya, with construction to start this year..."|
Hopefully the construction can start soon without disturbing the Philippine Navy order.

 

[40niner_com]

Hi all. Just curious

Is there space for the Diponegoro Sigma 9113 for a MICA-VL after the 76mm turret?

It appears that the bow of both Sigma 9113 ang 9813 (of Morocco) are of almost similar dimension.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Hi all. Just curious

Is there space for the Diponegoro Sigma 9113 for a MICA-VL after the 76mm turret?

It appears that the bow of both Sigma 9113 ang 9813 (of Morocco) are of almost similar dimension.

Ive never seen designs/concept illustrations of a SIGMA 9113 with a MICA-VL installation behind the 76 mm main gun. As far as i know the intention was from the beginning only some low cost cheap MANPADS, the two Tetral launchers.

 

[Ananda]

DSA 2022: Damen updates Sigma 9113 design for Malaysian LMS requirement

Dutch shipbuilder Damen has disclosed an ‘improved' design of its Sigma 9113 corvette/light frigate for Malaysia's programme to procure additional littoral mission ships...

www.janes.com

Damen has that concept for VLS on 9113 Corvettes. As the Jane's article put it, the Sigma Corvette design basically by Damen already prepares for 85m-100m depends on the modules choices. So they can put additional modules in the middle of superstructure (related to propulsion and sensors choices) or behind main gun possition for more VLS room.

Rumours say that Damen offer that VLS modules to be work by PAL for 9113 Corvettes MLU work. All depends whether PAL or MinDef still want to work with Damen, (as again Rumours) say they are quite unhappy with previous work share agreement during PKR 10514.

Still who knows, as being mention before DRU OPV 98 that's being work out in Batam also shown strong resemblance with Damen design. Who knows Damen work now with Local Private Yard to enter Indonesian market.

 

[Ananda]

This foto beem circulating on Indonesian Enthusiasts online accounts. This one from one Enthusiast X account. Shown the presentation of refurbishment plan for 41 TNI AL ships. Seems intead getting newer but still second hand assets, MinDef decide it is 'politically' preferable to doing refurbishment/upgrade on those old 30-50 years assets. Especially during election time, buying second hand assets even with much less age is political burden.

Anyway seems this is going to answer where Those Turkish system will end up. Seems they are talking to put missile back to Dutch originate Fatahilla class Corvette, then later on to FPB 57 and Parchim Class. All and all this is the assets that come from 70's, 80's and 90's.

Mention on Parchim being include in Refurbishment program has been facing a ghastly on many Indonesian enthusiasts. However for me it is expected as there's simply not enough new build and new procurement rate to replace all surviving 14 of them soon.

 

[koxinga]

I would imagine the new OPVs to be ideal and more capable replacements for the Parchims and since they are domestically constructed, it should be an easy sell.

Why don't they order more OPVs and have them built in multiple yards other than PT DRU the way the did for the LSTs?

 

[Ananda]

OPV 90 is more complex naval assets that any Local Shipyard outside PAL ever try. Present contract with DRU shipyard is the first try. There's some conflicting speculation whether they can finish it on time.

Even if DRU can finish those OPV on schedule, l do suspect they're not as easy as LST to replicate to other yards. Many local yards already familiar building ferry's and RO-RO ships, thus not really hard for them switching toward building LST or even later on LPD.

OPV90 is basically OPV in name only, the specs, armament and electronics sensors suits are clearly Corvette. Thus unless at least 3-4 yards involve it will take some time to churn the number needed on replacing all Parchim.

Also that 41 refurbishment program not only for Fatahilla, FPB57 or Parchim, but also include newer corvettes like Bung Tomo class and Sigma 9113 and PKR light frigates. Thus I suspect even all 14 Parchim got refurbishment, the scope of work will be differed. Still they bring more local yards involve, which potentially to improve their learning curve on handling warship projects. Who knows by that time they are ready for local corvettes project like that OPV90.

Prabowo temui pekerja PT PAL yang bangun fregat Merah Putih

Menteri Pertahanan (Menhan) RI Prabowo Subianto menemui para pekerja galangan kapal PT PAL yang membangun kapal perang buatan dalam negeri fregat Merah ...

www.antaranews.com

No mention on that 41 refurbishment program on Van Speijk/Ahmad Yani class involve. Seems MinDef finally more sure I suspect on replacing surviving Frigates with new ones on time. At least compare then replacing all corvettes. I suspect that's why they increase refurbishment number to 41.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia awards contract for 45 Atmaca anti-ship missile rounds

Indonesia has awarded local defence company PT Republik Defensindo the contract to procure an initial batch of Atmaca anti-ship guided missiles from Turkey, Janes has...

www.janes.com

Seems Jane's sources confirm that Indonesia already choose Turkish ATMACA as another type of SSM in the inventory. Mention before that Frenchie and Turkiye seems will be the 'winner' as defense 'partner' during this term. We already see the procurement of Exocet MM40 Blk3, now seems ATMACA find 1st export customer in Indonesia.

 

[koxinga]

If they keep to a two major industry partners (French, Turkey) model for diversity and competition, it will make sense. Does it come with some kind of transfer? I understand the reason why the previous Administration went for the Chinese C705 was an ambition to build it locally.

Is that ambition still there?

 

[Arji]

Is that ambition still there?

The ambition is always there, but people in charge always have differing methods on how to achieve it.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Indonesia awards contract for 45 Atmaca anti-ship missile rounds

Indonesia has awarded local defence company PT Republik Defensindo the contract to procure an initial batch of Atmaca anti-ship guided missiles from Turkey, Janes has...

www.janes.com

Seems Jane's sources confirm that Indonesia already choose Turkish ATMACA as another type of SSM in the inventory. Mention before that Frenchie and Turkiye seems will be the 'winner' as defense 'partner' during this term. We already see the procurement of Exocet MM40 Blk3, now seems ATMACA find 1st export customer in Indonesia.

This is perhaps a good plan to phase out the C-802 and have the Exocets and ATMACAs as the only two heavy anti-ship missiles.
Ordering directly 45 pieces of anti-ship missiles is really impressive for Indonesian standard .

The ambition is always there, but people in charge always have differing methods on how to achieve it.

Wasn't the plan for C-705 licence manufacturing cancelled, because of the impressive performance during live fire exercises?

Rudal China Gagal Meluncur, TNI AL Diminta Batalkan Pembelian

Insiden memalukan dan mengecewakan itu disaksikan Presiden Joko Widodo.

www.liputan6.com