Australian Army Discussions and Updates

Takao

The Bunker Group
The same M113 hulls that are within years of being phased out? That are so obsolete they are undeployable?

M113 was a great vehicle in it’s day. It needs to be retired.

Spike NLOS can go on virtually anything from ‘dune buggies’ to light armoured vehicles and helicopters.

In an Australian context, the rear tray of a Hawkei on the face of it, appears ideal…
The M113AS4 was a stupid idea and becomes stupider every day. As an APC/IFV

But....the key phrase is uncrewed. Nothing wrong with using them as uncrewed platforms. We already own them, they have demonstrated ability to keep up with A Veh, they are reasonably protected against direct fire (second most armoured until recently). They also offer more carrying capability than a Hawkei.

Note that the funding for AS4, which will be needed for IFV, isn't an issue this time as Army is already funded for a Bde size of uncrewed vehicles. Here, the AS4 funding can cut across to that as an interim measure.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The M113AS4 was a stupid idea and becomes stupider every day. As an APC/IFV

But....the key phrase is uncrewed. Nothing wrong with using them as uncrewed platforms. We already own them, they have demonstrated ability to keep up with A Veh, they are reasonably protected against direct fire (second most armoured until recently). They also offer more carrying capability than a Hawkei.

Note that the funding for AS4, which will be needed for IFV, isn't an issue this time as Army is already funded for a Bde size of uncrewed vehicles. Here, the AS4 funding can cut across to that as an interim measure.
The good thing about them being old, well and truly paid for, and unmanned, is that they are expendable so it doesn't matter if they are knocked out by counter battery fire etc. The fact that they still have some use in a role other than their primary role, means that they don't have to be discarded just because they are no longer viable as APC / IFV.
 

OldTex

Active Member
The M113AS4 was a stupid idea and becomes stupider every day. As an APC/IFV

But....the key phrase is uncrewed. Nothing wrong with using them as uncrewed platforms. We already own them, they have demonstrated ability to keep up with A Veh, they are reasonably protected against direct fire (second most armoured until recently). They also offer more carrying capability than a Hawkei.

Note that the funding for AS4, which will be needed for IFV, isn't an issue this time as Army is already funded for a Bde size of uncrewed vehicles. Here, the AS4 funding can cut across to that as an interim measure.
Perhaps an area that could be trialled is the use of the M113AS4 as an autonomous tracked load carrier for resupply missions to AFV and IFV equipped combat teams and battle groups. It would build on the autonomous LAND 121 40M cargo vehicle project mentioned in APDR.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The M113AS4 was a stupid idea and becomes stupider every day. As an APC/IFV

But....the key phrase is uncrewed. Nothing wrong with using them as uncrewed platforms. We already own them, they have demonstrated ability to keep up with A Veh, they are reasonably protected against direct fire (second most armoured until recently). They also offer more carrying capability than a Hawkei.

Note that the funding for AS4, which will be needed for IFV, isn't an issue this time as Army is already funded for a Bde size of uncrewed vehicles. Here, the AS4 funding can cut across to that as an interim measure.
Fair enough, what does their supportability look like, long term though? This is only a trial at this stage still, not an actual tender for a capability, I presume?
 

Takao

The Bunker Group
Fair enough, what does their supportability look like, long term though? This is only a trial at this stage still, not an actual tender for a capability, I presume?
That is the other thing. These are tech demonstrators that also make capability enhancements. Similar to Loyal Wingman.

The work that RICO is doing with the AS4 and other autonomous systems will be the launch for our big autonomous project better - we'll have concepts rooted in reality, we'll have an idea of the tech and its needs, and we'll know where the risks actually lie.
 
Last edited:

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Fair enough, what does their supportability look like, long term though? This is only a trial at this stage still, not an actual tender for a capability, I presume?
IMO I think its a good sized platform for unmanned, and as the M113 always was, could be used in a wide variety of applications, from resupply to weapon and sensor platforms. It has a good internal volume. Lots of flat surface around it. Something like this is going to be much tougher than say the autonomous trucks the US has been playing with.

Also. They made 80,000 of them. Many still in service in support/training rolls because they don't die. That is a huge potential refurbishment market. Mechanically, size, field capability they were always fairly good, it was slab sided aluminium people protection that was their downfall. But as unmanned that is much less of an issue, and they are still tough little buggers and there are 80,000 of them out there.

The US army had started similar modification of a few units, to learn before they built something specific. I wouldn't be surprised if it came out looking somewhat M113..
 

Morgo

Member
Does anyone have any idea of the composition of the force being deployed to the Solomons? Some mix of ADF and AFP according to the ABC.

Apparently the riots are a result of Chinese money flowing to the political class over there and the people having a gutful of it. Good on them and glad we can help.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Does anyone have any idea of the composition of the force being deployed to the Solomons? Some mix of ADF and AFP according to the ABC.

Apparently the riots are a result of Chinese money flowing to the political class over there and the people having a gutful of it. Good on them and glad we can help.
Read some of the previous posts on the topic and they will answer your questions. There's one poster who has been or is on the ground in Honaria and they've given a brief rundown. It pays to read through the recent previous posts before bursting into print, rather than expecting others to do your basic research for you.
 

Morgo

Member
Thanks for the steer to the other thread. I didn’t know that forum existed. Will do a quick search in future to make sure I’m in the right place.
 
Top