I think I read somewhere that the MRH-90 was costing $50,000 per flight hour to operate. This is outrageous if true. So rather than a dog, it sounds like the machine was a financial black hole.
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cdxbow
Well-Known Member
. "While it may be tempting to hang on to the MRH-90 in some kind of disaster-relief or bushfire-fighting role, that siren song must be avoided. The MRH-90 has been costing $35,000 per hour to operate. Last financial year that ballooned to $50,000 and it was probably the final straw. Even if that could be halved by stripping out military capabilities, it would still be orders of magnitude more than a civilian firefighting or emergency services helicopter. Despite the sunk cost, trying to repurpose the MRH-90 will merely extend the drain on resources. We’ve made the decision; walk away, don’t look back."
From - Dumping the ADF’s MRH-90 helicopters is the right call, but why now? | The Strategist (aspistrategist.org.au)
The article said it was the Howard Government that chose the MRH-90 over Defences choice of a US helicopter. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Look I really want to like the MRH-90.
It's used by a dozen other countries and the question has to be asked, why can they operate it and we can't.
While it looks like a good sized and designed helicopter suited for the ADF; for us at the end of the day it's too expensive to operate and it doesn't fly.
The flying thing is apparently an attribute of aircraft!!
It's a reluctant yet prudent decision.
Marcus Hellyer's article articulates the need and timing of the decision.
China / Money / China / supplier accountability / China.
Makes you wonder what other direct purchases will be forthcoming for the ADF
Regards S
Takao
The Bunker Group
I had the opportunity to see the paperwork that Defence submitted - my boss had worked on the submission and he was working closely with the Minister last year.
Defence didn't make a recommendation. That part was left blank. We may say we did, but the actual paperwork didn't. So the MPs were now asked to chose based on a paper, and with no SME advice.
cdxbow
Well-Known Member
Is that usual?
To my mind that's bound to fail more times than it will succeed.
MP's major interests seems to be getting their snouts in the trough and getting re-elected. Neither qualities are helpful in defence procurement. I think their is pretty clear evidence that the greater the political input to defence procurement the worse it becomes.
That's the important question. The RNZAF has a 72% serviceability rate, which isn't ideal but is still good. The French have operated both them and the Tiger in Mali and Afghanistan. The Germans have operated both in Afghanistan. You are part of the NH90 users group so are able to take advantage of the experience of others, but still you have problems which you blame the OEM for but actually could be the fault of the end user. Same as the Seasprite saga. That was the end user fault.
It would of been great if the MRH-90 worked for us.
back in the day we were looking at rationalising the number of types of helicopters across the ADF.
A new advanced medium sized helicopter with advanced systems.
Good internal volume with rear ramp.
On paper the MRH-90 looked good and had attributes the black/seahawk family did not.
A common platform for Army and Navy with the later having a good ASW platform that could also perform logistics.
Whats not to like
Again.................Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Well we will finally did get some rationising of the fleet.
It just took twenty years and a lot of heart break.
Regards S
Germany has also had a long history of issues with its NH90's as well as its Tigers. Not long back, a leaked Bundeswehr said that eight out of 53 Tigers and 12 of 99 NH90s were "ready-to-use."(The Drive) According to the article, The Bundeswehr laid the blame squarely on the shoulders of Airbus, which provides maintenance for the aircraft, for the low availability rates. It's also not too long ago that the Swedes were unhappy with their NH90's because of low availability rates and high running cost, compared to the Blackhawk. (Strategy Page). In Australia's case, they have chosen to go elsewhere because of very similar issues to those outlined above. From my point of view, a very wise decision!
Sounds like an own goal to me…
The RNZAF maintainers must be very special indeed.
As Arclighy has posted the Germans Tigre availability was poor in 2018 and that got worse by 2020 when on average only 8 of 58 Were available to fly.
Will Germany abandon the Airbus Tiger attack helicopter?
As for the NH90 in all it’s various iterations, they also have had their problems, in particular Belgium (retiring it’s TTHs), Finland (poor availability and 7 month wait for spares) and Germany. (My only source for these is that well loved wiki)
And as I started, NZ seems to be the top user in terms of availability but with no costings available.
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Perhaps there could be an opportunity for the Australian Govt to sell surplus MRH-90's back to Airbus (and recoup some of the costs), allowing Airbus to supply (sell/lease) in relatively quick order operational MRH-90's to their European NH-90 operators (eg to plug "availability" gaps)?
It will certainly be interesting to see what becomes of our retired Taipan fleet.
Not expecting great things from the supplier.
Will our decision be the shot in the arm Airbus needs to get things right or the sign to others to abandon ship.
I wish them well
Regards S
Just wondering if there is any info to hand regarding Army's future structure.
Plan Beersheba to Plan Keogh to Plan ???????????
I thought some decisions would of been made by now, or is the future composition still up in the air.
Fourth Brigade, Amphibious group, extra Special forces, common Multi-role Brigades or not ??????
Much new kit in the decade ahead needs to be allocated somewhere!!!!!
Any news
Regards S
Plan Beersheba to Plan Keogh to Plan ???????????
I thought some decisions would of been made by now, or is the future composition still up in the air.
Fourth Brigade, Amphibious group, extra Special forces, common Multi-role Brigades or not ??????
Much new kit in the decade ahead needs to be allocated somewhere!!!!!
Any news
Regards S
Sounds like defence is working its way through the projects of concern list and getting rid of them one by one.
High profile projects such as the Attack class submarines, Tiger Helicopters and now the MRH-90 are being dealt with, I suspect the C-27J might have been at least partly covered by additional Chinooks and perhaps additional C-130Js might also be part of that mix.
High profile projects such as the Attack class submarines, Tiger Helicopters and now the MRH-90 are being dealt with, I suspect the C-27J might have been at least partly covered by additional Chinooks and perhaps additional C-130Js might also be part of that mix.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
All depends on where the planned future funding plan is at, the cancellation of the Attack class has probably thrown it out in the short to medium term.
Apparently then it’s also been the fault of Sweden, Norway and Germany who have also had well documented struggles…
Couldn’t also be anything whatsoever to do with operating a fleet 6 times larger than RNZAF’s as if problems were to multiply across a larger fleet…
Interesting these end user problems seem not to manifest themselves across other types within Aviation Command…
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Yes I too wonder what the costings are. I will see if I can chase up some data. No I don't think the RNZAF maintainers are very special, maybe they're just more sober and straight laced than they used to be when I was in
They're all goody two shoes these days in comparison. When I made my remarks I was looking at patterns within non RAAF ADF aviation procurement, that's all.InterestedParty
Active Member
I am curious about the recently publicised shortage of adblue diesel emissions fluid which is required by something like 50% of modern diesel trucks, including some larger utes like the Ranger
www.news.com.au
Most of the fluid comes from the PRC
Is this used by our new Army trucks and do we have plans to work around any shortage. My understanding is that the vehicle can be modified to work without it but that is illegal
‘Extreme’ pressure over looming disaster
Behind the scenes of our everyday lives there are numerous complex systems that make it all possible. From the water infrastructure that delivers clean drinking water to our taps, to the global supply chains that provide a steady flow of goods for our consumption, these systems are generally...
www.news.com.au
Is this used by our new Army trucks and do we have plans to work around any shortage. My understanding is that the vehicle can be modified to work without it but that is illegal