Australian Army Discussions and Updates

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Yes just saw that is what the ABC is saying as well, it would be interesting to see what the actual cause was vehicle or human error

Having been close to a roll over in a couple of different vehicles either at speed or off road it’s very easy to do even for an experienced driver, only takes a moment of inattention for it to happen


The weather is pretty ordinary up there at the moment, could be a factor, but will have to wait and see, either way a sad day, was never nice when on shift to see a fatalcas notification come through !!
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
One of the 2 Soldiers killed in the rollover has been named as 29yo Brendon Payne, the other has only been identified as a 40yo Warrant Officer at this stage.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Yes just saw that is what the ABC is saying as well, it would be interesting to see what the actual cause was vehicle or human error

Having been close to a roll over in a couple of different vehicles either at speed or off road it’s very easy to do even for an experienced driver, only takes a moment of inattention for it to happen


Was in a truck roll over when I was about 12 or 13. Fell off a farm bridge with 9 tonnes of lime on the back. Was like being inside a drum rolling down a hill. We were lucky because the cab only fell 3 metres onto the creek bank. We were very lucky suffering no injuries except some bruising. The tray and lime ended up in the creek along with the farmer's bridge. He didn't have a sense of humour about it, nor did the trucky's boss. It's an experience that I don’t care to repeat. Mum had a whole bunch of kittens when she found out. We were about 60 miles from home and the old man came up to get me. We stopped at every pub on the way back home and he made sure that I had a beer at each one. Mum was all over me like a rash when I walked in the door. Then she smelt my breath and dad and I both got a tonging up. He reckoned it was worth it.
 

buffy9

Well-Known Member

I'm fully aware of the controversy of the subject and the care that has to be taken with various media, but the above is certainly troubling if it is indeed true.

It doesn't appear to be doing Defence any favours internally to be forcing out people out based on which unit they have been or are a part of. If it is true, I'm afraid morale and retention in the rest of army may fall further.

On the other hand I'm skeptical this may be another media hit piece, blowing the issue out of proportion.

I haven't been able to find the 'The Piecemeal Destruction of Australia's Special Missions Unit' anywhere to read for a more objective view.
 

Takao

The Bunker Group

I'm fully aware of the controversy of the subject and the care that has to be taken with various media, but the above is certainly troubling if it is indeed true.

It doesn't appear to be doing Defence any favours internally to be forcing out people out based on which unit they have been or are a part of. If it is true, I'm afraid morale and retention in the rest of army may fall further.

On the other hand I'm skeptical this may be another media hit piece, blowing the issue out of proportion.

I haven't been able to find the 'The Piecemeal Destruction of Australia's Special Missions Unit' anywhere to read for a more objective view.
Meh - the crocodile tears are hard to stomach. Or honestly care about.

SAS bleating the Cdo are taking over? (a), that was happening the other way a decade ago. (b) who cares? Most of the positions don't need a qualified operator in, and the senior ones are beyond unit and tactical things. So it's irrelevant.

An anonymous soldier that can't get terminology correct? Righto.... Either not a real soldier, or too junior to actually know what they are talking about.

Large discharge rates? Wouldn't be something to publicly comment on, there'd only be a couple of people who who'd know the actual rates (anecdotes don't count - there was an artillery unit a couple of years back who had 'dozens' of discharges - it was 3) and who knows the reasons. There are many reasons to leave.

Misunderstanding of administrative, legal and civil legal actions remains constant. They are three different systems that operate independently. People need to stop conflating them. Yes - you can have admin action taken against you without DFDA or legal action...

Be careful making too many links between forcing SF soldiers out because they aided or abetted war crimes and the wider, in uniform Army being upset. As much as I like TPE et al - it isn't the mouthpiece for most of Army.

Three Majors didn't get picked up? Oh noes! Over 30 Major's didn't get picked up last year within Canberra alone. There are any number of reasons not to get picked up to LTCOL - some are fair and some aren't. But welcome to DOCM - it's not a new thing.

Don't get me wrong - I agree with one thing in that article. But not for the reasons the letter writer thinks....
 

buffy9

Well-Known Member
Meh - the crocodile tears are hard to stomach. Or honestly care about.

SAS bleating the Cdo are taking over? (a), that was happening the other way a decade ago. (b) who cares? Most of the positions don't need a qualified operator in, and the senior ones are beyond unit and tactical things. So it's irrelevant.

An anonymous soldier that can't get terminology correct? Righto.... Either not a real soldier, or too junior to actually know what they are talking about.

Large discharge rates? Wouldn't be something to publicly comment on, there'd only be a couple of people who who'd know the actual rates (anecdotes don't count - there was an artillery unit a couple of years back who had 'dozens' of discharges - it was 3) and who knows the reasons. There are many reasons to leave.

Misunderstanding of administrative, legal and civil legal actions remains constant. They are three different systems that operate independently. People need to stop conflating them. Yes - you can have admin action taken against you without DFDA or legal action...

Be careful making too many links between forcing SF soldiers out because they aided or abetted war crimes and the wider, in uniform Army being upset. As much as I like TPE et al - it isn't the mouthpiece for most of Army.

Three Majors didn't get picked up? Oh noes! Over 30 Major's didn't get picked up last year within Canberra alone. There are any number of reasons not to get picked up to LTCOL - some are fair and some aren't. But welcome to DOCM - it's not a new thing.

Don't get me wrong - I agree with one thing in that article. But not for the reasons the letter writer thinks....
Fair to say it's another hit/attention piece then...

I only raise the issue because it can be hard to tell whether these articles are raising genuine concerns or they are blowing issues out of proportion. It seems recently that most articles are the latter.

To add on the morale/retention thing, I wasn't necessarily going on the views of the TPE or other groups. A better description might have just been a sense of frustration at recent events and in recent times, rather than morale/retention...
 

t68

Well-Known Member
DESA_Sales_Brochure_2021.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

The poms have a fair bit of kit coming on the market, the one bit that did surprise me was the Griffon Hoverwork Landing Craft Air Cushion (Light), looks like an interesting piece of kit, I wonder how something like that might come in handy with 2 RAR pre-landing force or even a raiding craft

Might be cheap as chips to use as some type of demonstrator to see if it has usefulness or not, be a tad noisy I imagine though
 

MickB

Well-Known Member
DESA_Sales_Brochure_2021.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

The poms have a fair bit of kit coming on the market, the one bit that did surprise me was the Griffon Hoverwork Landing Craft Air Cushion (Light), looks like an interesting piece of kit, I wonder how something like that might come in handy with 2 RAR pre-landing force or even a raiding craft

Might be cheap as chips to use as some type of demonstrator to see if it has usefulness or not, be a tad noisy I imagine though
At a quick glance the Argus might seem to be a fit for the Pacific Support Ship. (Unless a well dock is required)
That said I have no idea of its age or condition.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
At a quick glance the Argus might seem to be a fit for the Pacific Support Ship. (Unless a well dock is required)
That said I have no idea of its age or condition.

Good god no, she is a converted container ship, I imagine she would be completely knackered. From memory she was converted in the early 1980's
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
DESA_Sales_Brochure_2021.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

The poms have a fair bit of kit coming on the market, the one bit that did surprise me was the Griffon Hoverwork Landing Craft Air Cushion (Light), looks like an interesting piece of kit, I wonder how something like that might come in handy with 2 RAR pre-landing force or even a raiding craft

Might be cheap as chips to use as some type of demonstrator to see if it has usefulness or not, be a tad noisy I imagine though
I think if you were going to investigate such a capability, the people to speak too would be the USN and USMC. They have decades of experience operating LCAC.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Good god no, she is a converted container ship, I imagine she would be completely knackered. From memory she was converted in the early 1980's
Argus was a container ship 1981-84 (including a few months in RN use for the Falklands war), then converted 1984-88. Because the hull wasn't designed for her new role she needed 2600 tons of extra weight added, including 1800 tons of concrete ballast.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
I think if you were going to investigate such a capability, the people to speak too would be the USN and USMC. They have decades of experience operating LCAC.
Two very different concepts in its operations by the USN/USMC and the RM

USN use their craft which are predominantly used as a fast ship to shore for heavy equipment with a payload of roughly 60t
Landing Craft, Air Cushion (LCAC) > United States Navy > Displayy-FactFiles

The (LCAC(L) for the RM on the other hand is half the size with what appears to be a 3/4 length cabin for 16 fully equipped troops and according to this link is used by 539 ASRM and is air transportable by C-130J, A400M and C-17

LCAC Hovercraft - UKSF Gear (eliteukforces.info)

As I said its interesting to see if it compatible with 2RAR conops for the pre-landing force, dunno what they are worth but as a test mule should not break the bank for the four of them
 

earthyman

New Member
Thought you might find this mud test of the steyr aug interesting,
They did a mud test of the AR-15/m4 and it passed with flying colours, I bring it up because I know the ADF is serious about amphibious capability in the north. A bullpup rifle that performed better in the mud test is the Desert tech mdr, there's also the croation VHS-2 bullpup with adjustable buttstock that performed well in a much less extreme mud test. Both companies would probably license manufacturing.
 
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aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Meanwhile, nice little announcements continue to come in :)

Bale Defence, based in Port Macquarie, has been awarded a contract to manufacture 40 RTV's for the ADF.

I would assume they would all be for Army ? or could the RAAF also use them for field defence as well ?



Cheers
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile, nice little announcements continue to come in :)

Bale Defence, based in Port Macquarie, has been awarded a contract to manufacture 40 RTV's for the ADF.

I would assume they would all be for Army ? or could the RAAF also use them for field defence as well ?



Cheers
Nice bit of kit.

Just curious, the steering wheels on the left?

Regards S
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Nice bit of kit.

Just curious, the steering wheels on the left?

Regards S
haha only just noticed that :) not sure to be honest, had actually not heard of these guys before, so not sure what they have done in the past, possible export wise maybe ?
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Meanwhile, nice little announcements continue to come in :)

Bale Defence, based in Port Macquarie, has been awarded a contract to manufacture 40 RTV's for the ADF.

I would assume they would all be for Army ? or could the RAAF also use them for field defence as well ?



Cheers
"Bandwidth limit exceeded" - looks as if Bale wasn't prepared for the level of interest a defence contract would bring.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Meanwhile, nice little announcements continue to come in :)

Bale Defence, based in Port Macquarie, has been awarded a contract to manufacture 40 RTV's for the ADF.

I would assume they would all be for Army ? or could the RAAF also use them for field defence as well ?



Cheers
All for ‘sneaky beaky’ types I am guessing based on the pixelated photos…

Commando Regiments, SASR, RAAF 4 SQN CCT’s and “perhaps” RAN CDT’s, with maybe 2RAR gaining a few, as it seems to be positioning itself to join ’the club’…
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Somewhat overdue, had to lie about his heritage to even join the AIF. said he was Maori. Australia as a nation has a few things not to be very proud of.

Lest We Forget
 
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