Australian Army Discussions and Updates

Gryphinator

Active Member
Operating SP Arty Weapon systems are going to be very much an exercise in walk, crawl, run for the RAA(Royal Australian Artillery) there is no institutional knowledge within the Corps for anything other then operating towed Guns. They will need to lean heavily on the Armoured Corps and Mech Inf to learn how to operate Tracked Vehicles, the ADF has to learn how to operate land based SSMs and MRLs, again there is no real institutional knowledge on these systems.
I was an occasional "bucket" passenger at 8/12 in the early 2000's. RAA already know how to operate them-does that count?
 
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t68

Well-Known Member
From my point of view people need to take how often was the USMC supported by the US Army

Take WWII for example more US Army pers served in the Pacfic Campaign than USMC, yes it was mainly the USMC who did the initial lodgement, but it was Army that brought the numbers and heavy equipment
 

Massive

Well-Known Member
Interesting take on the PsSM - very much as an initial move but only a first step in a significant uplift in capability required to be effective/survivable on the modern battlefield.

"The government’s decision to acquire the PrSM is a good initial move that addresses a severe shortcoming for the army."


Regards,

Massive
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
From my point of view people need to take how often was the USMC supported by the US Army

Take WWII for example more US Army pers served in the Pacfic Campaign than USMC, yes it was mainly the USMC who did the initial lodgement, but it was Army that brought the numbers and heavy equipment
It's something to remember to. People should look at at the PTO during WW2 as a reference for future conflict with the PRC. Yes the technologies have changed, but the geography and spatial dimensions haven't. You are still facing the same basic problems of preventing an enemy from holding territory in archipelaegic and island areas, situated in the worlds largest ocean, and / or evicting them from said area island by island.

So the question has to be is the Australian Army correctly structured and equipped for such a campaign?
 

south

Well-Known Member
Interesting take on the PsSM - very much as an initial move but only a first step in a significant uplift in capability required to be effective/survivable on the modern battlefield.

"The government’s decision to acquire the PrSM is a good initial move that addresses a severe shortcoming for the army."


Regards,

Massive
This article contains some more lessons from OIR. There are some parts that are over-emphasised, but one which is correct is the difficulty of finding targets for long range fires (air or surface). A further point is integration of fires between air and surface forces.

Many of the other problems can (and would) be solved solely through greater acceptance of risk.
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
My vision may yet come to pass! :p ;)

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. — The Missile Defense Agency director says he’d like to see the Aegis Ashore ballistic missile defense system — which currently requires significant permanent infrastructure — become a less complex and more mobile asset.
The U.S. has had a fully operational Aegis Ashore site in Deveselu, Romania, since 2016, but has struggled to build a second fixed site in Redzikowo, Poland. This location was supposed to be in operation by August 2018, but will likely not be up and running until fiscal 2022 at the earliest.
A fixed Aegis Ashore site looks like the top side of cruiser, essentially a ship built on land that hosts radar arrays and a command-and-control system with launchers nearby.
The contractor in Poland encountered problems that have led to the project sitting for several years at the “last tactical mile,” as Vice Adm. Jon Hill, MDA’s director, has said. The contractor has struggled to configure the auxiliary controls, heating, power and cooling, which feed the combat system and are part of the construction contract...

...For future Aegis Ashore systems, “we have to decide, are we going to have long-term emplacement or are we going to just short-term land it there and pull it out if we need to,” he said.
With a more mobile option, Hill said, “you’re less worried about the ability to survive earthquakes, you’re less worried about surviving through [electromagnetic pulse] attack, if you’re going to be there for a long time.”
The final decision, he added, will influence the complexity of construction.
“I would be an advocate to reduce complexity and maybe even go back to the requirement to be transportable,” Hill said.

This could be compelling as a candidate for the deployed ballistic & high-speed missile defence system referenced in last year's strategic update. Time shall tell just how mobile and deployable AA will become, but it strikes me as sensible to evolve it into a mobile system given the quality and quantity of the PRC's missile forces.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
My vision may yet come to pass! :p ;)




This could be compelling as a candidate for the deployed ballistic & high-speed missile defence system referenced in last year's strategic update. Time shall tell just how mobile and deployable AA will become, but it strikes me as sensible to evolve it into a mobile system given the quality and quantity of the PRC's missile forces.
Let someone else sort out all the expensive problems first. TBH the Australian Army doesn't have the best record for for resolving complex technical electronic problems. It's also not as if the Australian taxpayer has gazillions of dollars that it can waste throwing at a problem to see if it can be rectified.
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
Let someone else sort out all the expensive problems first. TBH the Australian Army doesn't have the best record for for resolving complex technical electronic problems. It's also not as if the Australian taxpayer has gazillions of dollars that it can waste throwing at a problem to see if it can be rectified.
Agreed on all fronts. My hope is that the US will endure the developmental pain here in its bid to enhance Guam's defences in particular. It is noteworthy that Guam is threatened by much the same systems as our far north from an IAMD/BMD perspective (DF-26, CJ-10 & successors). Consequently it strikes me as worth keeping an eye on in the interim, and only pursuing once mature & deemed appropriate. Decent chance it won't materialise in time for our needs, but we shall see.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Appears there is a problem with the EF88 using the attached grenade launcher, seems like you have to go the some sort of corrective action, I might have missed it as its the 1st I have heard of the problem

Thales appeals court judgement - Australian Defence Magazine

From the story

The design changes under investigation involve the underslung 40mm grenade launcher impairing the ability of the rifle to fire its regular round. Once the soldier fired a grenade from the rifle, the gun was unable to fire a normal bullet without the operator having to take corrective action.

 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Nice to see the NASAMS project moving along nicely :)


Would not be surprised to see the numbers expanded beyond the initial buy, and can see other options for RAN and for other future requirements that tie this whole system together.

Cheers
 

buffy9

Well-Known Member
Appears there is a problem with the EF88 using the attached grenade launcher, seems like you have to go the some sort of corrective action, I might have missed it as its the 1st I have heard of the problem

Thales appeals court judgement - Australian Defence Magazine

From the story
"The design changes under investigation involve the underslung 40mm grenade launcher impairing the ability of the rifle to fire its regular round. Once the soldier fired a grenade from the rifle, the gun was unable to fire a normal bullet without the operator having to take corrective action."

I really don't understand how that would work from a technical point of view? The two operate on different trigger mechanisms - firing one really shouldn't be affecting the other. The only thing I could think of is the GLA sight becoming loose and having to be reset before firing from the rifle again.

I've never heard of this issue and have never had an issue on my end personally.
 

Zorborg

New Member
I really don't understand how that would work from a technical point of view? The two operate on different trigger mechanisms - firing one really shouldn't be affecting the other. The only thing I could think of is the GLA sight becoming loose and having to be reset before firing from the rifle again.
DTR explains it in the September issue. I'm summarising, but basically the GLA firing recoil was enough to cause the gun lock group to move rearward slightly and cause a slightly open bolt, preventing the rifle from firing until re-cocking.
 

Shanesworld

Well-Known Member
"The design changes under investigation involve the underslung 40mm grenade launcher impairing the ability of the rifle to fire its regular round. Once the soldier fired a grenade from the rifle, the gun was unable to fire a normal bullet without the operator having to take corrective action."

I really don't understand how that would work from a technical point of view? The two operate on different trigger mechanisms - firing one really shouldn't be affecting the other. The only thing I could think of is the GLA sight becoming loose and having to be reset before firing from the rifle again.

I've never heard of this issue and have never had an issue on my end personally.
I have had that. Recoil from the 203 would kick the bolt slightly out of battery. Particularly if you didnt gave a good position and kind of limp wristed it like with a pistol. Wouldnt happen alot but you would just go through tilt cock tilt look.
Bigger issue seemed to be the heat build up from the 203 mount on the barrel next to the iw gas block. But our steyrs were pretty flogged out.
 

buffy9

Well-Known Member
DTR explains it in the September issue. I'm summarising, but basically the GLA firing recoil was enough to cause the gun lock group to move rearward slightly and cause a slightly open bolt, preventing the rifle from firing until re-cocking.
I have had that. Recoil from the 203 would kick the bolt slightly out of battery. Particularly if you didnt gave a good position and kind of limp wristed it like with a pistol. Wouldnt happen alot but you would just go through tilt cock tilt look.
Bigger issue seemed to be the heat build up from the 203 mount on the barrel next to the iw gas block. But our steyrs were pretty flogged out.
That'd be why, I assumed it was talking about the SL40 nowadays. Have never used the ML40 and, re. the DTR article, the issue seems to have been resolved with the 203 as well.

Just a legal dispute raising its ugly head then I suppose.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
The Courier Mail is reporting they were in a HX77 truck. Story is behind a paywall.

Yes just saw that is what the ABC is saying as well, it would be interesting to see what the actual cause was vehicle or human error

Having been close to a roll over in a couple of different vehicles either at speed or off road it’s very easy to do even for an experienced driver, only takes a moment of inattention for it to happen


 
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