ADF General discussion thread

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Welcome news. I wish they would annouce the subs sooner too.

The head of the Albanese government’s strategic review has outlined an accelerated timeline for delivering its final report, dictated by the darkening circumstances Australia is confronting.
The review has the potential to transform the Australian Defence Force by recommending new capabilities it must acquire, and old capabilities that it could dispense with.

Former defence minister Stephen Smith, who is heading the review with former chief of the Defence Force Angus Houston, told a Perth security conference on Friday that he intends to deliver a big-picture interim report to the government by November 1, and their final report to Defence Minister Richard Marles by February 1.


It had previously been widely assumed that the report would not be delivered until the end of March.

But Mr Marles wants to be in a position by the end of March to make announcements about which nuclear-powered submarine option Australia will pursue and what Defence Force restructuring it will implement arising from the review.

The review will occur in tandem with the government’s review of the subs acquisition being led by Admiral Jonathan Meade. Authors of the two separate reports are expected to consult each other frequently.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says he is “very confident” Former Defence Minister Stephen Smith and Former… Defence Chief Sir Angus Houston are the “right people” to perform the defence strategy review. The review, announced by Mr Albanese, looks to ensure the Australian Defence Force is well positioned to More

“The sense of urgency in the review is helping the quality of submissions and also helping us in our deliberations,” Mr Smith told the Perth conference.

He emphasised that he and Sir Angus were mandated to consider force posture, which means where defence assets should be deployed, as well as the more basic issue of force structure, which refers to which defence platforms should be acquired and developed.

He also said the review would examine defence capability “now and into the future through the lens of the current strategic circumstances”.

This raises the serious possibility that the Australian Defence Force could be transformed, with the possibility that legacy projects of limited relevance to the maritime security challenges Australia faces over the next decade possibly being sidelined in order to free up funds for more relevant and urgent defence acquisitions.

Mr Smith said the review was examining all options and had not ruled anything out.

When the review was first announced, Sir Angus said the strategic circumstances of today were the worst he had seen, or which had ever applied at any time during his lifetime.

The rapid pace of the review, which is all but unprecedented in Defence terms, indicates the Albanese government is keen to make big decisions on Defence Force structure early in its first term, with a view to creating increased military capability over the next few years.

Mr Smith said it would have been open to the government to follow a traditional path for a new government of commissioning a full white paper, which could take 12 or 18 months, and look at capabilities over the next 25 to 30 years. He has often argued that Defence is at its best when it is forced to act quickly.

Stephen Smith is heading the strategic review with former chief of the Defence Force Angus Houston. Picture: NCA NewsWire/Gary RamageStephen Smith is heading the strategic review with former chief of the Defence Force Angus Houston. Picture: NCA NewsWire/Gary Ramage
The government announced the strategic review on August 3, and Mr Smith and Sir Angus have completed several weeks of intense consultations in Canberra, with government agencies as well as outside stakeholders such as defence companies and think tanks.

“It was clear we needed and wanted to undertake consultations in several important parts of the country,” Mr Smith said.

He was already scheduled to speak at the Indian Ocean Defence and Security Conference in Perth, which is supported by the West Australian government.

He and Sir Angus visited HMAS Stirling in Fleet Base West in Perth as well as the Henderson defence precinct. They will visit defence and ship-building facilities in Adelaide as well as making a series of consultative visits to military bases in northern Queensland, Darwin and northwest Western Australia.

These bases include Darwin and RAAF Tyndal in the Northern Territory, the so called “bare bases” of Curtin and Learmonth in Western Australia as well as RAAF Scherger in northern Queensland.

Defence facilities in northern Australia were a key subject of a review carried out a decade ago, and Mr Smith and Sir Angus want to examine the extent of improvements of changes made to them in the past decade.

Mr Smith told the conference that one feature of the review would be to examine “with forensic intensity” the situation of the nation’s energy infrastructure in the northern parts of Western Australia, as this is now “critical infrastructure” for Australia.

here you go guys:

If this is all true, then some very serious alarm bells must be ringing.
No time for a Defence White paper, but rather a rapid defence review, which in turn has had its delivery date brought forward.

What is going on?

This is concerning language.

Regards S
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
If this is all true, then some very serious alarm bells must be ringing.
No time for a Defence White paper, but rather a rapid defence review, which in turn has had its delivery date brought forward.

What is going on?

This is concerning language.

Regards S
Smith has also said Defence are closely assessing a requirement for a B-21A capability and are looking to "rapidly" increase the F-35A fighter fleets. Such a comment goes beyond Frank Kendall stating the US would likely view favourably any Australian request to join the B-21A program.

No timeline or numbers of course...

Could just be referring to existing plans under "Additional Air Combat Capability" as mentioned in FSP2020, or perhaps something else...
 

Lolcake

Active Member
If this is all true, then some very serious alarm bells must be ringing.
No time for a Defence White paper, but rather a rapid defence review, which in turn has had its delivery date brought forward.

What is going on?

This is concerning language.

Regards S
You only need to look at china's shipyards to an extent. One shipyard was pumping out 5 x type 052s at once.
 

Massive

Well-Known Member
No time for a Defence White paper, but rather a rapid defence review, which in turn has had its delivery date brought forward.
Let's hope for a clearly defined problem statement with a timeframe.

Accelerating a report by months due to concerns about a rapidly changing security environment and then recommending the acquisition of a bomber aircraft that is yet to fly feels odd to me.

Regards,

Massive
 

oldsig127

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
What about China’s SSNs, super carriers, H-20 bombers, hypersonic missiles and militarisation of the South China Sea? Should that not be a bigger cause of concern for the region?
Much of the region is utterly incapable of defending itself from China and have either already, or will likely make public or private agreements with them. We don't worry the region aside from Indonesia and Malaysia (depending on politics there) at the moment. As far as the rest are concerned Australia getting B-21 will just put them in the midst of a confrontation Australia can't win, but they'd still like our trade - and to hedge their bets if we do end up on the "winning " side

(Notable exception, Singapore which IS prepared to accept Chinese enmity and arming to counter it, and the East Asian duo of S.Korea and Japan.)

oldsig
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Much of the region is utterly incapable of defending itself from China and have either already, or will likely make public or private agreements with them. We don't worry the region aside from Indonesia and Malaysia (depending on politics there) at the moment. As far as the rest are concerned Australia getting B-21 will just put them in the midst of a confrontation Australia can't win, but they'd still like our trade - and to hedge their bets if we do end up on the "winning " side

(Notable exception, Singapore which IS prepared to accept Chinese enmity and arming to counter it, and the East Asian duo of S.Korea and Japan.)

oldsig
Don’t think Vietnam will be rushing to bend the knee to Xi.
 

oldsig127

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Don’t think Vietnam will be rushing to bend the knee to Xi.
My list was not exhaustive for want of patience with a tiny keyboard. Vietnam is interesting. They've defeated China before, but a very different China from the one faced now. And there were, I vaguely recall, internal Chinese issues that perhaps helped Vietnam and might not be repeated

oldsig
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
My list was not exhaustive for want of patience with a tiny keyboard. Vietnam is interesting. They've defeated China before, but a very different China from the one faced now. And there were, I vaguely recall, internal Chinese issues that perhaps helped Vietnam and might not be repeated

oldsig
Also the Vietnamese Army of 1979 had a large core of battle hardened Veterans, especially at mid to high level command positions, Sgt and above and Major and above.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Absolutely agree that 2022 makes for a different military from Vietnam’s 1979 military. However I suspect their training today still benefits from Vietnam’s past experiences. I suspect donations of military kit to Vietnam would be used with at least the same level of skill shown by the Ukraine. However, China is a vastly superior opponent (conventional war) than Russia.
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
What about China’s SSNs, super carriers, H-20 bombers, hypersonic missiles and militarisation of the South China Sea? Should that not be a bigger cause of concern for the region?
What about them? The issue is Australia maintaining good relations with neighbours who are friendly, but who have expressed concern at the SSN decision. That China is playing bully boy in the region is a concern to all to which they respond in different ways; and Australia’s urgency is prompted by China’s tactics. But that doesn’t mean that Australia would want to provide Indonesia or Malaysia, as examples, with concerns about our long term intents.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
What about them? The issue is Australia maintaining good relations with neighbours who are friendly, but who have expressed concern at the SSN decision. That China is playing bully boy in the region is a concern to all to which they respond in different ways; and Australia’s urgency is prompted by China’s tactics. But that doesn’t mean that Australia would want to provide Indonesia or Malaysia, as examples, with concerns about our long term intents.
Surely the powers that be in Malaysia and Indonesia can understand Australian concerns (and many others) about the CCP. If getting the best kit possible to counter the CCP is a problem for the neighbourhood then they need to give their heads a skate, just my two cents.
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Surely the powers that be in Malaysia and Indonesia can understand Australian concerns (and many others) about the CCP. If getting the best kit possible to counter the CCP is a problem for the neighbourhood then they need to give their heads a skate, just my two cents.
Indonesia
Fourth largest population in the world with a GDP ranked globally.around 16 or 17th place.
Geographically a close neighbor.
Culturally / religiously and historically a very different country to Australia.
Not good or bad, we are just very different.

Politically we will always be mindful of Indonesian perceptions re what we do.
Do these perceptions influence our defence decision making, I can not say.
But we do sometimes need to clarify how we are placed.

We may not like this, but that's the real world.

Cheers S
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Surely the powers that be in Malaysia and Indonesia can understand Australian concerns (and many others) about the CCP. If getting the best kit possible to counter the CCP is a problem for the neighbourhood then they need to give their heads a skate, just my two cents.
I would say it is a case of them privately understanding but expressing a different view publicly. Realistically they need to tread a fine line between China and the West.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
ADF to embark on Indo-Pacific tour - Defence Connect
Indo-Pacific Endeavour 22 (IPE22) is set to kick off with a 2 month, 14 Nation Tour to be conducted by the ADF and Australian Government Agencies. involved will be
HMAS Adelaide
Hobart
Anzac
Arunta
Stalwart
11 Helicopters, probably 1 RAN helicopter per ship as per normal ops and a flight of 6 Army Helicopters on board Adelaide.
RAAF Air Mobility Aircraft
Australia Federal Police (AFP)
Australian Border Force
Defence Industry
Foreign Affairs and Trade

They will go as far West as the Maldives, India and as far North as Vietnam, Bangladesh, Philippines.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
National Servicemen Association of Australia to close its doors in 2026 as Nashos grow older - ABC News
The Australian National Servicemen Association of Australia, affectionally known as Nashos will be wound up in 2026. They represent the 300,000 Australian men conscripted between 1951 and 1972 into the ADF, but now with their average age well into the 70s, they will no longer be able to continue operating.
They lost 212 personnel on active service in Borneo and Vietnam.
A little bit Bittersweet this news in that we haven't needed to bring back National Service in 50 years but sad that so many have now passed and or grown old and weary.
 
Top