Compare capabilities and data - LCA & JF-17

[adsH]

"I think the Israelis provided the US with a Mig 21 in the early 70's, funnily enough it is still a classified issue as it involved an arabic pilot who was fed up with his wife being persecuted by neighbours for being a christian. "

good story might be true american did counter them with the F-16 which were put to the unltimate test in the Arab- israel war and Pak-soviate+Afghan war. in both cases F-16 were apperntly tweaked by the data recorded on these crafts in the paksitan case f-16 usually took onn mig 21 in the ratio of 1 to 8 damm thats good for any jet if it can achieve that well f-16 is one of the best out there no wonder paf (which have extensive logistics in place for that jet) would want more they ordered more after that they ordered 70 again block 15 the best at the time but after 28 the production stoped and the preslers amendment prevented delivery of the 28 built. i think the orignal number invisioned by the PAF was i think was about 120 could of been more.

i have to give PAF and IAF pilots credit in both cases they were defenders not aggressor the advantage of being a defender is not an unknown fact. and the fact that they were given probably the best dog fighter coupled with there talents gained by there exelent training withe the USAF adn that fact that they had to win or else they would the most unthinkable the annihilation of there people (unthinkable) i believe that made both of them out perform there opponents

Pakistan and Israel have had a military relation from the eairly soviate wars they both had something in common the soviats as enemiess and the US as there friend this built a relation of "Natural ally"(they modified chinese tanks for the pak army the T59 to an impressive fighting machine). if u check out this book its called charlie willsons war it would detail the extent of the collaboration. things aren't what they seem to many the deception of international polotics and deplomacy is unknown.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I believe it was this Mig-23 which is said to have become part of the Israeli Air Force after a Syrian pilot defected to it in the late 80s:

:smokingc: You can see both the Syrian and Israeli symbols on the aircraft!

Thanks Myst. I'd forgotten about the '23. They did also get a Mig 21, I'll see if I can drag something up on it. It was assessed by the New Technologies Div(??) of the USAF -

 

[mysterious]

Were you able to see the picture? I think its not showing here, perhaps something wrong! Well I've uploaded it to the Gallery so that you guys can see it there. :smokingc:

 

[Pathfinder-X]

LCA is better than FC-1.........in theory. but keep in mind dat the FC-1 is a tested aircraft and is entering service while LCA is still undergoing initial stages of testing. by the time LCA comes into service i won't be surprise if FC-1 has been upgraded already.

 

[adsH]

LCA is better than FC-1.........in theory. but keep in mind dat the FC-1 is a tested aircraft and is entering service while LCA is still undergoing initial stages of testing. by the time LCA comes into service i won't be surprise if FC-1 has been upgraded already.

Hey no offence to LCA Lovers here but all i wan't to say is that the LCA seems to be more like an ornamental AC like a symbol of indignation i don't think it it will see much combat when you have SU30mki that are being built in India i see litle reason why INdia would divert Resources towards LCA IN R&D. I would think LCA could possibly be used as support AC and test platforms for newer Weaponry like missiles!! I am not saying LCA is a FAIlure infact it looks like a good AC but i see litle reason why india would now press ahead with LCA when they have SU30mki on the full steam production and R&D in the LAB for it.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

LCA is better than FC-1.........in theory. but keep in mind dat the FC-1 is a tested aircraft and is entering service while LCA is still undergoing initial stages of testing. by the time LCA comes into service i won't be surprise if FC-1 has been upgraded already.

Hey no offence to LCA Lovers here but all i wan't to say is that the LCA seems to be more like an ornamental AC like a symbol of indignation i don't think it it will see much combat when you have SU30mki that are being built in India i see litle reason why INdia would divert Resources towards LCA IN R&D. I would think LCA could possibly be used as support AC and test platforms for newer Weaponry like missiles!! I am not saying LCA is a FAIlure infact it looks like a good AC but i see litle reason why india would now press ahead with LCA when they have SU30mki on the full steam production and R&D in the LAB for it.

none taken. i think the LCA looks lk a mini Mirage-2000, but from wut the indians claim, LCA more capable than FC-1 in theory, the only way we can find out is wait and c.
P.S. no offends to the indians here but their jet often is less worthy than they claim in theory, let's c if they can finally get it done good dis time.

 

[Libyan]

Lets hear it from a neutral source?

Im libyan which would make me neither pakistani nor indian

Lca is the better aircraft for the following reasons

1. technology India is not forced to surce their aircraft avionics and missile systenms from china only, Indias lca will feature domestic as well as american and european parts and technology.


2. Radar you cannot still insist that the grifo s-7 radar which has a 35 mile range is able to take full advantage of the bvr missiles you will be planning on using, nor for a momment can you think that israel will allow russia to sell your their modified kopoyo radars


3. design the fc-1 is conventional the pilot does NOT have a very good range of view look over the nose of the a/c do you think you can see very far, The Indian lca however the indians apparently learnt from their terrible field of view on the mig-23

4. The design theory the fc-1 was designed to give pakistani pilots something better than 1960s mirages and mig-21's to fly it succeeds in this

The Indian Lca however was designed to replace the mig-23, mig21 and take advantage of the latest trends in aviation the indian aircraft is atleast one full generation ahead of the pakistani equivilant.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

Lets hear it from a neutral source?

Im libyan which would make me neither pakistani nor indian

Lca is the better aircraft for the following reasons

1. technology India is not forced to surce their aircraft avionics and missile systenms from china only, Indias lca will feature domestic as well as american and european parts and technology.


2. Radar you cannot still insist that the grifo s-7 radar which has a 35 mile range is able to take full advantage of the bvr missiles you will be planning on using, nor for a momment can you think that israel will allow russia to sell your their modified kopoyo radars


3. design the fc-1 is conventional the pilot does NOT have a very good range of view look over the nose of the a/c do you think you can see very far, The Indian lca however the indians apparently learnt from their terrible field of view on the mig-23

4. The design theory the fc-1 was designed to give pakistani pilots something better than 1960s mirages and mig-21's to fly it succeeds in this

The Indian Lca however was designed to replace the mig-23, mig21 and take advantage of the latest trends in aviation the indian aircraft is atleast one full generation ahead of the pakistani equivilant.

FACT:LCA is still in early stages of testing, FC-1 is a tested aircraft.
FACT:LCA is the smallest fighter in the world in existence today, a plane wif such a small body would increase the difficulties in upgrading.
FACT:LCA has been in development since 1983, and still not finished while FC-1 started in 1992 and is ready to be deployed.
FACT:LCA will most likely to be deployed in limited numbers around 2006, full scale production won't start until 2008.

it doesn't matter wut u design, u could design a space battleship is u want to, but wut matters about a fighter is whether it is finished or not. blank talk on paper is plain-O BS. i don't know why some ppl love to talk about how a plane is better than others when the plane is still not finished.

 

[umair]

Lets hear it from a neutral source?

Im libyan which would make me neither pakistani nor indian

Lca is the better aircraft for the following reasons

1. technology India is not forced to surce their aircraft avionics and missile systenms from china only, Indias lca will feature domestic as well as american and european parts and technology.


2. Radar you cannot still insist that the grifo s-7 radar which has a 35 mile range is able to take full advantage of the bvr missiles you will be planning on using, nor for a momment can you think that israel will allow russia to sell your their modified kopoyo radars


3. design the fc-1 is conventional the pilot does NOT have a very good range of view look over the nose of the a/c do you think you can see very far, The Indian lca however the indians apparently learnt from their terrible field of view on the mig-23

4. The design theory the fc-1 was designed to give pakistani pilots something better than 1960s mirages and mig-21's to fly it succeeds in this

The Indian Lca however was designed to replace the mig-23, mig21 and take advantage of the latest trends in aviation the indian aircraft is atleast one full generation ahead of the pakistani equivilant.

First of all please research before u post.Reads the whole JF-17 thread and u'll learn a lot about it's evolution from a medium tech 3rd gen fighter, to a modern 4th gen fighter.
The radar for the Thunder will either be an improved RC-400-4 or the Griffo-S7(u'r confusing it with the Griffo 7 which equips our mig21s).Both radars are very good in terms of range, radarmodes service life etc etc.The Griffo s-7 is an advanced derivative of the Griffo2000 which is used as an F-16 MLU radar and is thus equivalent to the APG68(V) carried by F-16A/B MLU'S and F-16C/D's.Further more the Griffo-S7 can be upgraded to an AESA status.
The avionics for the Thunder are of French Origin.
It has a digital full authority 4 chanel FBW system.And is of the same class as the LCA..
About visibilty issues,take a look at any LCA picture,Do u see a bubble canopy?I don't.
The combat radius,range of the Thunder is more than the LCA.The design of the Thunder is that of a fast turner and burner,meaning emphasis on maneauverability.There's more but u'll have to find it out u'rself.

 

[Indianguy]

Hey no offence to LCA Lovers here but all i wan't to say is that the LCA seems to be more like an ornamental AC like a symbol of indignation i don't think it it will see much combat when you have SU30mki that are being built in India i see litle reason why INdia would divert Resources towards LCA IN R&D. I would think LCA could possibly be used as support AC and test platforms for newer Weaponry like missiles!! I am not saying LCA is a FAIlure infact it looks like a good AC but i see litle reason why india would now press ahead with LCA when they have SU30mki on the full steam production and R&D in the LAB for it.

"The LCA wing gives good performance, we understand its aerodynamics well, and would like to retain it for the MCA," says Dr. Harinarayana. It will operate at a much higher wing loading than that of the LCA. The MCA will be in the 12 ton clean weight class, with a maximum take-off weight of about 18 ton. With the emphasis on stealth, the MCA will have two small, outward-canted fins. For stealth reasons, the Kaveri engines will be without afterburners. They will have a slightly higher dry thrust than the LCA engine. These engines will also have thrust-vectoring nozzles for manoeuvring. A super cruise capability is not being sought for the MCA. The MCA will use the radar-absorbent material to reduce RCS.

 

[Indianguy]

Well India is making LCA for the purpose for the following Purpose.

1) To be an First line of defence agaist any Air Attack and will be deployed in all farward base while alll heavy FC on central and backward bases.
Its ability to quick takeoff and small body to hide easily make it perfect to put of farward bases and act as a first like of defence again enemy aircraft.

2) To act as an Escotee to heavy bombers , While Su30 will fly from deep inside bases towards enemy positions which was then joined by the LCA on farward post to Esscot these planes to their target.

3) To act as a defensive FC, When Indian heavy planes return from their bombings , after that they need time to refueal it , reload it . While PAF planes will be in the Sky and move towards India , then LCA will be the planes who stop them and delay till more advance Splanes reloded for Air to Air compbat roles..


Small body makes LCA almost invisble to Rader , also it is not visbile to Enemy piolt duringclose Dog Fight.


So the LCA is perfectly fit into its intended role. I don;t think one should compaire LCA with JF which is ment for another purpose

 

[gf0012-aust]

Well India is making LCA for the purpose for the following Purpose.

1) To be an First line of defence agaist any Air Attack and will be deployed in all farward base while alll heavy FC on central and backward bases.
Its ability to quick takeoff and small body to hide easily make it perfect to put of farward bases and act as a first like of defence again enemy aircraft.

2) To act as an Escotee to heavy bombers , While Su30 will fly from deep inside bases towards enemy positions which was then joined by the LCA on farward post to Esscot these planes to their target.

3) To act as a defensive FC, When Indian heavy planes return from their bombings , after that they need time to refueal it , reload it . While PAF planes will be in the Sky and move towards India , then LCA will be the planes who stop them and delay till more advance Splanes reloded for Air to Air compbat roles..


Small body makes LCA almost invisble to Rader , also it is not visbile to Enemy piolt duringclose Dog Fight.


So the LCA is perfectly fit into its intended role. I don;t think one should compaire LCA with JF which is ment for another purpose

I was under the impression that the primary role of the LCA was for strike.

 

[adsH]

Well India is making LCA for the purpose for the following Purpose.

1) To be an First line of defence agaist any Air Attack and will be deployed in all farward base while alll heavy FC on central and backward bases.
Its ability to quick takeoff and small body to hide easily make it perfect to put of farward bases and act as a first like of defence again enemy aircraft.

2) To act as an Escotee to heavy bombers , While Su30 will fly from deep inside bases towards enemy positions which was then joined by the LCA on farward post to Esscot these planes to their target.

3) To act as a defensive FC, When Indian heavy planes return from their bombings , after that they need time to refueal it , reload it . While PAF planes will be in the Sky and move towards India , then LCA will be the planes who stop them and delay till more advance Splanes reloded for Air to Air compbat roles..


Small body makes LCA almost invisble to Rader , also it is not visbile to Enemy piolt duringclose Dog Fight.


So the LCA is perfectly fit into its intended role. I don;t think one should compaire LCA with JF which is ment for another purpose

"Indian guy" i was so impressed from what you said till you said something something "small body" "LCA" "RADAR" "Invisible" ............ where have you been all this time. it should be common sense how radArs work and any sAne human being would refute what you said there about Radar invisibility. LCA is not A STEALTH AC I DONN"T KNOW WHY LCA LOVERS WAN"T SO MUCH FROM IT ITS THE FIRST PROPER INDIAN AC IT IS A BASIC AC WHITH GOOD ABILITIES AND IT IS NOT STEALTH>

according to what you say the AC seems to be more of cork in hole of a dams wall like when the damm is full and people try to stop a leak from the whole by sticking a cork in it(they know it won't hold long but its just there to satisfy and slow the leak). I don't think the LCA is going to be front line fighter it won't be able to take the chinese front line fighters. this will be a massacre for the LCA. granted LCA has good abilities but i think SU 30mki should be front line and LCA should petrol the inner parameter of the battle feild. From what you say LCA sounds like a Dart being thrown blindly at the enemy just to slow them down till the real player the SU30mki come out to play. thank God your not one of the indian defense strategy planners


and could some one explain me how LCA IS PROCLAIMED Stealth AC. by the looks of it can say EF2000 is stealth!!!!! because it is realy high tech and i can play flight sim on its on board computer!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pathfinder-X]

Well India is making LCA for the purpose for the following Purpose.

1) To be an First line of defence agaist any Air Attack and will be deployed in all farward base while alll heavy FC on central and backward bases.
Its ability to quick takeoff and small body to hide easily make it perfect to put of farward bases and act as a first like of defence again enemy aircraft.

2) To act as an Escotee to heavy bombers , While Su30 will fly from deep inside bases towards enemy positions which was then joined by the LCA on farward post to Esscot these planes to their target.

3) To act as a defensive FC, When Indian heavy planes return from their bombings , after that they need time to refueal it , reload it . While PAF planes will be in the Sky and move towards India , then LCA will be the planes who stop them and delay till more advance Splanes reloded for Air to Air compbat roles..


Small body makes LCA almost invisble to Rader , also it is not visbile to Enemy piolt duringclose Dog Fight.


So the LCA is perfectly fit into its intended role. I don;t think one should compaire LCA with JF which is ment for another purpose

[Mod edit: No need to make fun of any one. Thanks]

i think wut the bro is trying to say is LCA has low RCS, and it's small size can makes in harder to spot by eyes when closing in for WVR.

 

[Indianguy]

well thast what i mean invisible to rader means LOW Rader Cross section and with Rader Observing Coating made it invisible .

regarding First line defence FC , Well it has all the qualitties that is required to field FC in Farward post.

1) Quick Airtake
2) Small runway needed
3) easy to hide

 

[adsH]

well thast what i mean invisible to rader means LOW Rader Cross section and with Rader Observing Coating made it invisible .

regarding First line defence FC , Well it has all the qualitties that is required to field FC in Farward post.

1) Quick Airtake
2) Small runway needed
3) easy to hide

I think there are people here more able and qualified and knowledgeable to explain you how and which AC can be Invisible to Radars to my knowledge the only stealth AC in the world is the B-2 which costs 100's of million if not billions Let me get this straight !!! Indian Guy !!! your telling me that India with limited AC R&D manufacturing capability has achieve Stealth HELLO PEOPLE am i the only person here who THInKs THIS IS OBSERD or are you guys just not bothered enough to comment!!! indian guy's assertion and belief that the LCA AC is invisible tp radar, reminds me of an Laughter full Episode of "South Park" where Carmen thinks he is invisible and he walks up in the middle of the stage with out any cloths lol, and he actually thinks he is invisible. if Indian Guy were to be become a INdian War strategy planner Then ONLY GOD could help India(even tho the indian Armed forces would be more than capable enough to defend there territory-and the fact that there are only a handful nations that could ever Defeat INdia in full scale war!!!!


It would be like they would send out there LCA on Bombing missions and they would Actually believe that there LCA will not get detected by Radar "Carmen :I Believe i am INvisible" lol you know what would happen!!!! nfloorl: :grab

 

[Indianguy]

I think there are people here more able and qualified and knowledgeable to explain you how and which AC can be Invisible to Radars to my knowledge the only stealth AC in the world is the B-2 which costs 100's of million if not billions Let me get this straight !!! Indian Guy !!! your telling me that India with limited AC R&D manufacturing capability has achieve Stealth HELLO PEOPLE am i the only person here who THInKs THIS IS OBSERD or are you guys just not bothered enough to comment!!! indian guy's assertion and belief that the LCA AC is invisible tp radar, reminds me of an Laughter full Episode of "South Park" where Carmen thinks he is invisible and he walks up in the middle of the stage with out any cloths lol, and he actually thinks he is invisible. if Indian Guy were to be become a INdian War strategy planner Then ONLY GOD could help India(even tho the indian Armed forces would be more than capable enough to defend there territory-and the fact that there are only a handful nations that could ever Defeat INdia in full scale war!!!!


It would be like they would send out there LCA on Bombing missions and they would Actually believe that there LCA will not get detected by Radar "Carmen :I Believe i am INvisible" lol you know what would happen!!!! nfloorl: :grab

Ok , Smarts Pants ......

I think Your Knowledge about the defence Tech is quite Low and I request you , that you should take classes .......

For your Own Information B-2 Is not a Stealth Anymore , Oh did i break your heart ? I t advise your that u should not Buy B-2, by thiking that they are Stealth ,,,,Right Though they are invisible to Conventional Rader System but not Non-Conventional one. Russian have this Rader Tech to dectect B-2 from Decades. ............ OH man I Detect your Stealth Plane on my Rader.. SORRY for that , I hope you forgive me to shooting down your Stealth Plane , B-2 :bazooka :smash

Well .. If you ask any Fighter Piolt, Ask them they will tell you that during dog fight their success depends how much they see their enemy planes from naked eyes.

Movies ..Yeah .... If you saw the movie ...."Behind Enemy Lines" When F/A-18 Super Hornet was down by the SAM , WHen the SAM was fired, Owen Willson's co-piolet is trying to see where the missiles , from where Missile is comming from where, so that they can dodge the missile, same things happen with plane also in close combat mode.

Like this when in the Mountain regions a plane suddenly show up in the rader and close the frist thing the Piolet is liek to make visual contact to that plane, isn't it . ask poilts ...

Well India is making Food progress in FC tech , Makaing its own FC engines and tech Also , Never Under estimate Scientists ......

India is Developing Fighter for the Second time after a long gap, So test infrastructure has had to be built up from scratch......

Its advancd airframe is of carbon-fiber composites make up 45% and Use of aluminum alloy is upto 35%, again by weight. is unique in the world.The fin for the LCA is a monolithic honeycomb piece. No other manufacturer is known to have made fins out of a single piece. ( Achivement, First R&D)

A striking feature of the LCA is its small size. It is much smaller than even the JAS-39, which a ~1m longer. An effort was made to reduce the number of individual composite parts to the minimum and hence keep the plane light.

The use of composites results in a 40 per cent reduction in the total number of parts (if the LCA were built using a metallic frame): For instance, 3,000 parts in a metallic design would come down to 1,800 parts in a composite design. The number of fasteners has been reduced to half in the composite structure from 10,000 in the metallic frame. The composite design helped to avoid about 2,000 holes being drilled into the airframe. Though the weight comes down by 21 per cent, the most interesting prediction is the time it will take to assemble the LCA -- the airframe that takes 11 months to build can be done in seven months using composites.

Wow Bravo . LAnd Mark Achivement Using Limited R&D facilities...Isn't .....

It is also expected that LCA will get DRDO developed Radar-absorbent paint. Composites are inherently stealthier than metal. So You see this will make the Plane Cross Section Very Low on Raders Which WIll look like Group of Birds flying in Raders. Moreover If plane Flying In Mountains , Low altitude in deserts and Seas will be invisible to Raders Eyes , due to its Small Size ..... Don;t u Agree


Engines :
For LCA ( With GE -404)
Empty Weight: 12122lbs.
Half Internal Fuel: 4408lbs.
Thrust: 1* 18230lbs.

T/W Ratio = Total Thrust / (Empty Weight + Half Internal Fuel)
= 18230 / (12122 + 4408)
~ 1.2

With Kaveri
T/W Ratio ~1.4 [ for a single engine jet a TWR > 1 is a achievement---remember lca is a delta ] :mock

Wow what An Achivement with an limited R&D ..wow Making its own better Engine ....with more T/W ratio. Poor Scientist make make wonders ....from limited R&D facility ..........

The increased, unspecified, dry thrust should allow the aircraft to super cruise (cruise supersonically without the use of reheat). Also a thrust-vectoring nozzle, to enhance its agility, as well as a digital engine control system. The axisymmetric TV nozzle is planned to be flight tested on a later prototype. The nozzle could possibly permit the elimination of the vertical stabiliser and decrease the radar cross section.

LCA is the first Asian-designed fighter to have an ingeniously developed engine.

LCA Vs F16C/D block 50+
Max Weight : 8500 kg, 17010kg
Armament : 1 cannon & 7 hard points, ext load 4000 kg (LCA) ,1 cannon, 2 Sidewinders, ext load 4500 kg.(F16)
Range :840km , 1000km


LCA Vs JAS39 Gripen
Max Weight : 8500 kg, 12474 Kg
Armament :1 cannon & 7 hard points, ext load 4000 kg (LCA) , One Mauser BK27 27mm cannon, 8 hard points, ext. load 4000 kg. (JAS)

HARD FACTS .............. Wow India build all thins from A scratch and for the frist time with limited R&D facility ....... MAn you always underestimated things .

Well with Low Rader Cross sections due to small size and now covered with Rader Obsorving Paints , all this make it hard to detect, For your infomation your b-2 and other also use paints to hide and cost around 2 billion .

LCA will the Front Line Aircraft replacing MIG-21 , Its ability to have short reaction time will surprise enemy. It need short take off and landing Strip which is not in the case of other planes.

You are Thinking like , when American thinks that Their Patorn Tanks are Invensible aslo Pak Planners thinks and send their tanks on wars , But indian Scientist quicky develop new Wepons to penetrate those think Armor shields and look Westeran Scientist Fools and American Stop Producing Tanks after that WAR.

Do ya know that ? Why this happen ? Becasue one always underestimate the enemys, which indian ener think.

Thanks God You are not the planner , becasue u always under estimate enemy which opens the way to defete.

LCA is alll weather multi purpose plane and it has limited role and can be used with support other FC. It is going to be deployed on Farward bases.

Next Time Please put some Hard facts ...To back up Your Claims

Source : Varity of them, so can't put source , but if u insist i will ., thanks

 

[The Watcher]

IG, why are you comparing LCA with F16c and JaS39 when those two jets are not stealthy at all? I think the matter of conflict here is the stealth of LCA as compared to stealth of F22, B-2 spirit, F-117...

 

[Indianguy]

Well my point of view for comparison is to demostrate technology level, I am not saying that it is stealth plane . i am saying this features and design of this plane make it hard to detect.

This is not a match for F22, B-2 etc, these planes are made for different roles . while LCA purpose is different.

 

[ipfreak]

I think there are people here more able and qualified and knowledgeable to explain you how and which AC can be Invisible to Radars to my knowledge the only stealth AC in the world is the B-2 which costs 100's of million if not billions Let me get this straight !!! Indian Guy !!! your telling me that India with limited AC R&D manufacturing capability has achieve Stealth HELLO PEOPLE am i the only person here who THInKs THIS IS OBSERD or are you guys just not bothered enough to comment!!! indian guy's assertion and belief that the LCA AC is invisible tp radar, reminds me of an Laughter full Episode of "South Park" where Carmen thinks he is invisible and he walks up in the middle of the stage with out any cloths lol, and he actually thinks he is invisible. if Indian Guy were to be become a INdian War strategy planner Then ONLY GOD could help India(even tho the indian Armed forces would be more than capable enough to defend there territory-and the fact that there are only a handful nations that could ever Defeat INdia in full scale war!!!!


It would be like they would send out there LCA on Bombing missions and they would Actually believe that there LCA will not get detected by Radar "Carmen :I Believe i am INvisible" lol you know what would happen!!!! nfloorl: :grab

Ok , Smarts Pants ......

I think Your Knowledge about the defence Tech is quite Low and I request you , that you should take classes .......

For your Own Information B-2 Is not a Stealth Anymore , Oh did i break your heart ? I t advise your that u should not Buy B-2, by thiking that they are Stealth ,,,,Right Though they are invisible to Conventional Rader System but not Non-Conventional one. Russian have this Rader Tech to dectect B-2 from Decades. ............ OH man I Detect your Stealth Plane on my Rader.. SORRY for that , I hope you forgive me to shooting down your Stealth Plane , B-2 :bazooka :smash

Well .. If you ask any Fighter Piolt, Ask them they will tell you that during dog fight their success depends how much they see their enemy planes from naked eyes.

Movies ..Yeah .... If you saw the movie ...."Behind Enemy Lines" When F/A-18 Super Hornet was down by the SAM , WHen the SAM was fired, Owen Willson's co-piolet is trying to see where the missiles , from where Missile is comming from where, so that they can dodge the missile, same things happen with plane also in close combat mode.

Like this when in the Mountain regions a plane suddenly show up in the rader and close the frist thing the Piolet is liek to make visual contact to that plane, isn't it . ask poilts ...

Well India is making Food progress in FC tech , Makaing its own FC engines and tech Also , Never Under estimate Scientists ......

India is Developing Fighter for the Second time after a long gap, So test infrastructure has had to be built up from scratch......

Its advancd airframe is of carbon-fiber composites make up 45% and Use of aluminum alloy is upto 35%, again by weight. is unique in the world.The fin for the LCA is a monolithic honeycomb piece. No other manufacturer is known to have made fins out of a single piece. ( Achivement, First R&D)

A striking feature of the LCA is its small size. It is much smaller than even the JAS-39, which a ~1m longer. An effort was made to reduce the number of individual composite parts to the minimum and hence keep the plane light.

The use of composites results in a 40 per cent reduction in the total number of parts (if the LCA were built using a metallic frame): For instance, 3,000 parts in a metallic design would come down to 1,800 parts in a composite design. The number of fasteners has been reduced to half in the composite structure from 10,000 in the metallic frame. The composite design helped to avoid about 2,000 holes being drilled into the airframe. Though the weight comes down by 21 per cent, the most interesting prediction is the time it will take to assemble the LCA -- the airframe that takes 11 months to build can be done in seven months using composites.

Wow Bravo . LAnd Mark Achivement Using Limited R&D facilities...Isn't .....

It is also expected that LCA will get DRDO developed Radar-absorbent paint. Composites are inherently stealthier than metal. So You see this will make the Plane Cross Section Very Low on Raders Which WIll look like Group of Birds flying in Raders. Moreover If plane Flying In Mountains , Low altitude in deserts and Seas will be invisible to Raders Eyes , due to its Small Size ..... Don;t u Agree


Engines :
For LCA ( With GE -404)
Empty Weight: 12122lbs.
Half Internal Fuel: 4408lbs.
Thrust: 1* 18230lbs.

T/W Ratio = Total Thrust / (Empty Weight + Half Internal Fuel)
= 18230 / (12122 + 4408)
~ 1.2

With Kaveri
T/W Ratio ~1.4 [ for a single engine jet a TWR > 1 is a achievement---remember lca is a delta ] :mock

Wow what An Achivement with an limited R&D ..wow Making its own better Engine ....with more T/W ratio. Poor Scientist make make wonders ....from limited R&D facility ..........

The increased, unspecified, dry thrust should allow the aircraft to super cruise (cruise supersonically without the use of reheat). Also a thrust-vectoring nozzle, to enhance its agility, as well as a digital engine control system. The axisymmetric TV nozzle is planned to be flight tested on a later prototype. The nozzle could possibly permit the elimination of the vertical stabiliser and decrease the radar cross section.

LCA is the first Asian-designed fighter to have an ingeniously developed engine.

LCA Vs F16C/D block 50+
Max Weight : 8500 kg, 17010kg
Armament : 1 cannon & 7 hard points, ext load 4000 kg (LCA) ,1 cannon, 2 Sidewinders, ext load 4500 kg.(F16)
Range :840km , 1000km


LCA Vs JAS39 Gripen
Max Weight : 8500 kg, 12474 Kg
Armament :1 cannon & 7 hard points, ext load 4000 kg (LCA) , One Mauser BK27 27mm cannon, 8 hard points, ext. load 4000 kg. (JAS)

HARD FACTS .............. Wow India build all thins from A scratch and for the frist time with limited R&D facility ....... MAn you always underestimated things .

Well with Low Rader Cross sections due to small size and now covered with Rader Obsorving Paints , all this make it hard to detect, For your infomation your b-2 and other also use paints to hide and cost around 2 billion .

LCA will the Front Line Aircraft replacing MIG-21 , Its ability to have short reaction time will surprise enemy. It need short take off and landing Strip which is not in the case of other planes.

You are Thinking like , when American thinks that Their Patorn Tanks are Invensible aslo Pak Planners thinks and send their tanks on wars , But indian Scientist quicky develop new Wepons to penetrate those think Armor shields and look Westeran Scientist Fools and American Stop Producing Tanks after that WAR.

Do ya know that ? Why this happen ? Becasue one always underestimate the enemys, which indian ener think.

Thanks God You are not the planner , becasue u always under estimate enemy which opens the way to defete.

LCA is alll weather multi purpose plane and it has limited role and can be used with support other FC. It is going to be deployed on Farward bases.

Next Time Please put some Hard facts ...To back up Your Claims

Source : Varity of them, so can't put source , but if u insist i will ., thanks

well, "ingeniously developed engine" ... hmm, first batch of 10 testing LCA will be deliveried in 2006 but fit wiht imported engines (GE-404) since the "ingeniously developed engine" still have problems and no time table for service so far.

on the contrast, JF-17 prototype 03 uses licensed copy of RD-93. not "ingeniously developed" but it is working. most of flying control avionics are also made in china except radar (italian made?)

small budy of LCA means it would have very little room for future upgrade..

most of parameters u listed as "facts" are still on papers and maybe take another 5-7 years to get there.

so far JF-17 is ahead of schedule and 8 will be delivered in 2006 according to PAF. BVR S-10 is also under tests according to chinese side (there is a picture with S-10, looked like J-7G).

i agree that LCA and JF-17 play different roles.

on the paper, LCA has better parameters than JF-17. but those advanced features make the delay of LCA, just like one iaf speakmen dubbed LCA as "late coming aircraft".

the signaficance of LCA for india is not if lca will be backbone of iaf (i doubt it will), the building lca has been building up a complete indian military aviation industry. with building licensed su-30 and lca, indian military avaition industry is taking off, if with slow pace ...