dabrownguy
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Maybe its expensive because of the technology is better? Did you think of that? LCA radar is pretty advanced and on par with western radar, although LCA will see many midlife upgrades in blocks.
Compare capabilities and data - LCA & JF-17
- Thread starter jatt2ooo
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Well I've been :hitwall for a long time trying to tell u guys again and again that don't think of the Thunder as a med tech fighter.It's earliest production version is destined to be in the 4.2-4.4 gen fighter range, making it equivalent to the block 40 and 50(export version) Falcon.The main reason which comes into my mind for the LCA being more expensive is that India spent more time and money in the programmme's R&D stage.Whereas Pakistan partenered China which already had much experience in developing aircraft(the J-8,A-5,JH-7 etc) which led to much less time being spent in the R&D stage(10 odd years as compared to 20 odd years for the LCA)
Theres also all the money and years spent by the Israelis in developing the Lavi that need to be factored into this.
The JF-17 is a combination of US, Israeli and Chinese input now - a mini eurofighter type concept.
I imagine Lockheed will be watching public flight displays with some interest.
The JF-17 is a combination of US, Israeli and Chinese input now - a mini eurofighter type concept.
I imagine Lockheed will be watching public flight displays with some interest.The Watcher
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:lolol You love play with our young minds, dont you? Don't joke around with our feelings man. :crygf0012 said:Theres also all the money and years spent by the Israelis in developing the Lavi that need to be factored into this.
The JF-17 is a combination of US, Israeli and Chinese input now - a mini eurofighter type concept.
Hmmm, not sure if I have offended you (or anyone) but if I have it was unintentional. I was just stating the tech history of the plane.The Watcher said::lolol You love play with our young minds, dont you? Don't joke around with our feelings man. :crygf0012 said:Theres also all the money and years spent by the Israelis in developing the Lavi that need to be factored into this.
The JF-17 is a combination of US, Israeli and Chinese input now - a mini eurofighter type concept.
The Watcher
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No its okay. I didn't think plane was THAT good.
It remains to be seen. The base unit was very good, IIRC the Israelis only stopped development as the US perceived that it was paying for the development of a plane that would act as a competitor for the F16.The Watcher said:No its okay. I didn't think plane was THAT good.
Am a bit fuzzy on the overall history of this, so don't take me literally.
The Lavi was supposed to outperform the cranked wing F16XL (??), if that was the case, then it would have been a very good low alt dog fighter (with the right thrust engine) and a very good bomb truck due to its capacity to load up on hard points etc...
dabrownguy
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I know India spent more on R&D but why is LCA more expensive is what I was trying to say.
Purely indigenous programmes will cost more - it is to be expected. Couple this with the fact that there are some new technology concepts involved, then it's likely that a "greenfields" development will incur high initial costs.dabrownguy said:
"Greenfield" projects tend to look at amortising the development costs by onselling the platform. In one of the US news alerts I get there is already discussion about whether the LCA and JF-17 will be the new lightweight fighters to compete for volume sales on the international market. This was basically part of an article which said that they could be a direct sale competitor for approx 2000 second hand F-16's.
Both India and China will need to consider offshore sales to reduce the pain of development costs. (if that doesn't compromise strategic interets)
The Watcher
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Countries in Africa, Middle East and maybe in far east would probably go for JF-17 as the future will show its as capable as F-16abc, etc. plus the reduced price will be the factor of its sucess. Central and South America could be another market as large as africa and ME combined. 2006-08 would be interesting years.
So as gf said that indiginous programes cost more !! so the EF2000 had multiple countries contribueing, so the high price would either mean that the actual R&D cost was realy huge or that the BAE is ripping off the prospectfull buyers!. hmm? :mrgreen
oh and gf the Israeli input was only in the J-10 i don't think it was the JF-17 its still a good fighter its was based on the mig-33 nice craft but the soviates could not afford to runn the R&D on it
and i think the israeli input in the j-10 was the technology like the phased array radr on bord computers avionics and the air inlet modification this craft is basically based on a russian design again the soviates at the end didn't have much money so they stoped R&D :smokingc:
oh and gf the Israeli input was only in the J-10 i don't think it was the JF-17 its still a good fighter its was based on the mig-33 nice craft but the soviates could not afford to runn the R&D on it
and i think the israeli input in the j-10 was the technology like the phased array radr on bord computers avionics and the air inlet modification this craft is basically based on a russian design again the soviates at the end didn't have much money so they stoped R&D :smokingc:
Roger Smith
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Well said, I second the aforementioned motion!gf0012 said:Theres also all the money and years spent by the Israelis in developing the Lavi that need to be factored into this.
The JF-17 is a combination of US, Israeli and Chinese input now - a mini eurofighter type concept.
adSh. In principle I was referring to the '10. The 17 will also have got some lateral spinoff as the Chinese would have learnt a substantial amount on platform development from the '10 learning curve.
Even though there may not have been direct Israeli input, I woould hazard a guess that all of the Israeli experience in the Lavi and their after market expertise in modifying Mig-21's would have been bought into play.
Israel has a lot of experience in modifying Migs. They were very early suppliers to the US of captured aircraft. They currently contract to a lot of the former warsaw pact "poorer" countries looking for upgrades to existing fleets. They are considered to be the best of the refurb models, with the French Sagem conversions coming in second. Mikoyans own upgrades come in 3rd (which says a lot for the first 2)adsH said:
I think the Israelis provided the US with a Mig 21 in the early 70's, funnily enough it is still a classified issue as it involved an arabic pilot who was fed up with his wife being persecuted by neighbours for being a christian.
There may not be any substance to the latter part of the story, but it seems to have been donated by a disaffected Syrian.
they did modify the Mig 29 in the indian inventory Mig 29 are great but just not worth the money i mean they can sure do what they were built for but for airforces like RAAF RAF or even PAF who rely on robust platform (and who try to make the most out of what they have). changeing the engines every 500-600 hrs would not be practicle and ideal and not economical duhh! lol
mig 21 are brilliant in dog fights i mean they were designed when dog fight were the only air fight combat tradition but that was like 4 decades ago they are being phazed out no matter what u put in it they will have to be retired the airframes will dye out aswell once the aircraft goes out of serial production and, YOu know that chinese or russian build quality don't hold up to there end of the deal atleast in the mig 21 case.(indian/pakistnai mig21 crashes well known )(PAF i think is lucky enough to have better ejection systems mostly from western nations and better updated avionics compared to the IAF Mig 21 so a PAF pilot would technically would have a better chance of saving him slef incase of a malfuntion) and i just wanted to ask do the russian still make the mig 21 i think they have fased them out but the chinese make them primarily becase thats the only jet they have available to for mass production.
I frankly think operatring Migs 21 is a risk that out ways the benifits the amount of trained pilots that have been lost in pakistan and Indian airforce is unacceptable and frankly would be unacceptable in a modern AIR force.
mig 21 are brilliant in dog fights i mean they were designed when dog fight were the only air fight combat tradition but that was like 4 decades ago they are being phazed out no matter what u put in it they will have to be retired the airframes will dye out aswell once the aircraft goes out of serial production and, YOu know that chinese or russian build quality don't hold up to there end of the deal atleast in the mig 21 case.(indian/pakistnai mig21 crashes well known )(PAF i think is lucky enough to have better ejection systems mostly from western nations and better updated avionics compared to the IAF Mig 21 so a PAF pilot would technically would have a better chance of saving him slef incase of a malfuntion) and i just wanted to ask do the russian still make the mig 21 i think they have fased them out but the chinese make them primarily becase thats the only jet they have available to for mass production.
I frankly think operatring Migs 21 is a risk that out ways the benifits the amount of trained pilots that have been lost in pakistan and Indian airforce is unacceptable and frankly would be unacceptable in a modern AIR force.
mysterious
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I believe it was this Mig-23 which is said to have become part of the Israeli Air Force after a Syrian pilot defected to it in the late 80s:
:smokingc: You can see both the Syrian and Israeli symbols on the aircraft!
:smokingc: You can see both the Syrian and Israeli symbols on the aircraft!
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