Draken was looked at during the original assessment, liked, but deemed not mature enough. For some reason it was not revisited.
Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
OldTex
Well-Known Member
It might have been because Sweden, being neutral at that time, would not provide military equipment (including support) to countries engaged in armed conflict. I seem to remember that being a reason given for the ammunition for the Australian Army Carl Gustav's being embargoed during the Vietnam War (might only have been a rumour)
Recently read an article that states the embargo was not on Australian use of mirage in Vietnam but of Australia being an alternate supply line to Israel.
Draken was dropped on aesthetics only.
It was deemed too ugly.
Nowadays it would be a contemporary style, maybe we should take a second look.
Cheers S
Rheinmetall and Boeing Australia to offer MQ-28 Ghost Bat to Germany - Australian Defence Magazine
Rheinmetall and Boeing Australia have entered into a strategic partnership to offer the MQ-28 Ghost Bat as a mature solution for the Bundeswehr’s procurement of collaborative combat aircraft into Germ...
www.australiandefence.com.au
Have the finalised the latest ghost fo export yet? And what will the RAAF acquisition numbers be? It seems to be moving in the right direction for the ghost bat to be produced in mass! Really need a carrier based version to take off from the LHD’s since everyone is against F-35B’s
As things stand the MQ-28 is in competition with the XQ-58 Valkyrie and another undisclosed competitor for an Uncrewed Collaborative Combat Aircraft (UCCA) to be operational by 2029. Kratos, the makers of the XQ-28, have teamed up with Airbus.Rheinmetall and Boeing Australia to offer MQ-28 Ghost Bat to Germany - Australian Defence Magazine
Rheinmetall and Boeing Australia have entered into a strategic partnership to offer the MQ-28 Ghost Bat as a mature solution for the Bundeswehr’s procurement of collaborative combat aircraft into Germ...
Have the finalised the latest ghost fo export yet? And what will the RAAF acquisition numbers be? It seems to be moving in the right direction for the ghost bat to be produced in mass! Really need a carrier based version to take off from the LHD’s since everyone is against F-35B’s
Ghost Bat v Valkyrie: Australia in fierce battle with US for German war drone market
The locally made combat aircraft, which operates without personnel on board, is packed with sensors and is expected to have a range of more than 3700 kilometres.
C-27 to go. Short service life in RAAF.
Not surprised, when they were purchased the USAF was planning on operating them, but cancelled their order not long after they entered service with the RAAF.
IIP does say they will be replaced, but not what with.
There are lots of very short runways in our region which was the driver for Caribou and it’s replacement C-27J YET aren’t suitable for C-130J.
Probably a driver for a longer range Chinook capbility (air refuelling capable) or other rotary wing capability (MV-75 maybe?) than another STOL fixed wing…
My thoughts were for CH47 and air to air refuelling as well.
Also I noted that an option was mentioned for an SF aviation capability, possibly little bird, or more blackhawks?
Also I noted that an option was mentioned for an SF aviation capability, possibly little bird, or more blackhawks?
Maybe the C27J is just too much aircraft for the requirement. The C27J has over 3x the carrying capacity of the Caribou.
It does have the advantage of commonality in terms of engines and other things with the C-130J though.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The MV-75 would be a great asset but it must be shown to be more reliable and safer than the Osprey. This will not be known for awhile yet.
I think it will be interesting to see if the ADF really can live without a smaller fixed wing STOL lifter.
We really do have a dispersed wide area of ops to account for.
Edit:
With the pivot towards littoral projection, one might argue that the requirement for smaller capable ranged STOL aircraft is even more pressing.
Whilst the C-27 may be deemed a poor fit, for reasons, that doesn’t mean another type is not required.
After all, I don’t think the tactical reasonings that made the Caribou so valued have suddenly magically disappeared.
We really do have a dispersed wide area of ops to account for.
Edit:
With the pivot towards littoral projection, one might argue that the requirement for smaller capable ranged STOL aircraft is even more pressing.
Whilst the C-27 may be deemed a poor fit, for reasons, that doesn’t mean another type is not required.
After all, I don’t think the tactical reasonings that made the Caribou so valued have suddenly magically disappeared.
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Todjaeger
Potstirrer
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #10,356
One of the problems is that in terms of STOL military airlifters, there has been no real replacement aircraft. Arguably the closest other aircraft in terms of size and capabilities would be the DHC-5 Buffalo, though the CN-235 itself is also close. However, the C-27 and C-295 are both considerably larger in terms of MTOW. AFAIK the Empty weight of a C-27 is close to 4,000 kg greater than the MTOW of a DHC-4 Caribou.
Since there does not really seem to have been a direct replacement ever developed for the Caribou, that does suggest to me that as useful as the capability had been, it was quite niche. The issue with that of course is that absent sufficient interest in developing a new niche aircraft, the capability will end up fading away due to a lack of appropriate assets. In the case of the ADF, it would seem the best way forward absent a new direct replacement option would be to acquire more examples of the CH-47 and C-130 and use them in tandem.
Whilst STOL performance will never compare to the Caribou, the NC212i is quite similar in terms of speed, range, capacity, rough field capability, rear ramp etc. And it is surely (?) cheaper to own and operate then a C27, C130 or CH47. The price/performance might be acceptable for its niche role, given the expanded Herc fleet will be available for the heavy lifting...
What exactly does the C27 tend to transport around. Is it mail, people, cargo or something else.
My understanding is they get used a lot across the pacific islands, less as a military driver, but more as a humanitarian/disaster relief. I have even heard they get used for surveilance as part of fisheries patrols.
If it is being used as a people movers, then I would have thought civilian cessna or king airs could be contracted or gifted. If its surveilance, then it could be incorporated into triton or P8 circuits.
I'm thinking disaster relief can be done to larger runways and then shipped in.
My understanding is they get used a lot across the pacific islands, less as a military driver, but more as a humanitarian/disaster relief. I have even heard they get used for surveilance as part of fisheries patrols.
If it is being used as a people movers, then I would have thought civilian cessna or king airs could be contracted or gifted. If its surveilance, then it could be incorporated into triton or P8 circuits.
I'm thinking disaster relief can be done to larger runways and then shipped in.
C-27J for all it’s “small size” talk, still carries 60x PAX or 9 tons of cargo to 1800k, un-refuelled and can do so into short or un-prepared airfields…
Not sure a King Air is exactly a viable replacement for that…
I get that, but the question is more is that what it is doing.
I'm assuming if it was regularly delivering its full payload to short runways, then it would probably be indispensable. I'm wondering if it found itself delivering small payloads to normal runways or was a people taxi more often than not.
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