Aardvark144
Active Member
The article didn't give much away did it. Would there be anything in the image of a Mogami attached to the article?
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
- Thread starter OPSSG
- Start date
Nup, another pic of the meko a200 further down the page.
Also says Mogami believed to be about 20% more expensive than the A200 and then a bunch of experts giving their opinion.
Aardvark144
Active Member
If the speculation is correct that up to the first six could be bult offshore, there will be a lot of feathers ruffled in the land of oz.
Depends, LCM is reported to be delayed, civmec still working on opvs 3-6 aswell as the LCH from next year. Still have Austal pushing out 2 Evolved Capes a year too and the entire precinct needs major upgrades.
Current timeline
2025-2029 Arafura class x4
2025-2031 Evolved Cape class x11, (yet to be ordered but planned)
2025-2032 LCM x18
2026-2035 LCH x8
2029-? GPF x8
Precinct upgrades 2026-2029
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OldTex
Well-Known Member
If feathers are going to be ruffled because the number of foreign yard built vessels is increased, given the nominated Australian partner has a backlog, then there is a simple solution. That solution is to re-award either the LMV-M (LCM8 replacement) project or the LMV-H project to another Australian based builder. That would remove most of the backlog obstuction and perhaps penalise the Australian yard for non-performance. If that process isn't investigated then there is no grounds for people to be upset about having more of the "urgently needed" GPFs built overseas by a yard that can deliver on their contract.
Some interesting goss. Odds on it's probably accurate. Evidently there is some serious smoke about a larger overseas order.
I agree with Reptilia's comments above that the Henderson facility is under some serious pressure. This approach derisks that, and it's probably necessary.
Interesting that the cost difference between the two options is aparently in the order of 20%. I definitely think the Mogamis are worth a 20% increase. They are more than 20% better.
I did note that they intend to announce the preferred bidder (not the final winner), with a period then required to reach a signed contract. So there is still some hard work to do. Plenty of contract negotiations have led to tears.
I agree with Reptilia's comments above that the Henderson facility is under some serious pressure. This approach derisks that, and it's probably necessary.
Interesting that the cost difference between the two options is aparently in the order of 20%. I definitely think the Mogamis are worth a 20% increase. They are more than 20% better.
I did note that they intend to announce the preferred bidder (not the final winner), with a period then required to reach a signed contract. So there is still some hard work to do. Plenty of contract negotiations have led to tears.
Birdon's original plan was to use Echo as the primary builder. They were then informed that Austal was the COA's preferred builder, we're still waiting for an agreement to be reached.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
But the Evolved Mogami is already in production, the A210 is not.
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I wonder what the price difference is between a Arafura and an E Cape?
With collectively around fifteen vessels ,is there still scope to push for more of a balance towards increased OPV numbers
This maybe possible if increased frigate build numbers are awarded overseas.
Regards S
But what's the through life costs of the two designs?
Time and time again the higher sticker price ends up being better value for money.
There are something's an aluminium hulled PB just can't do which required an ANZAC to stand in for them.
The OPVs will be a cost saver when looked at like that.
Do you know if it is the Cost or Design thats causing the delay?
Thought they would have gone with a proven design, as they have done with the Damen LST 100.
Recently read up on another proven LCT built by French company CMN, more capable than LCM and half that of LCH.
The current LCM design looks to be more suited to the riverine.
200 ton payload, twice that of the LCM.
2150nm range at 16knts fully loaded, similar range at greater speed.
crew 18
Roll on, roll off capability
No uav deck
a slightly larger cmn design with flight deck, even more capable (on paper)
True. Who knows…
Not sure I believe the Japanese reps when they say the Mogami was designed for a 40 year service life.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Definitely a sales pitch that would appeal a Canadian pollie.
The last Halifax will likely be close to 50 years old by the time its River class replaces it. The Mogami likely can have a service life of 40 years but will future upgrades keep it in the game for 40 years? Will it be cost efficient as opposed to replacing it earlier?Immediately I start to wonder if having 6 built offshore might actually mean we are only going to get 6. We have seen 9 Hunters get cut back to 6, the Arafura order cut in half and I am having doubts about the LOSVs.
Could be the government might only want one yard building frigates, time will tell.
Anyway at this point I am willing to take whatever gets offered.
I don't think so, however you are right about what history has shown.
I think the Government is very wedded to the GPF program as it is their baby. To date, and to the Government's credit, they have stuck to the IIP.
I think this is far more driven by problems with the Henderson facility and an increasing need to recapitalise the Navy in a hurry.
I actually doubt the potential for six overseas hulls to impact the eventual 8 built in Perth, these will just come later, potentially replacing some of the earlier ones, or adding to the fleet.
6 GPFs, with potentially several delivered before 2030, would allow a much earlier retirement of the ANZACS, and/or an earlier timeframe to return to 8 tier 2 frigates in service. Warramunga can't be far off the same condition as ANZAC and Arunta.
Defence force recruitment has biggest surge in a decade
https://www.defence.gov.au/news-events/news/2025-08-04/biggest-recruitment-surge-more-than-decade
changing the topic slightly, looks like there has been some wins over FY25 with defence recruitment. The above article should be accessible to all, but in case it is not (and I have updated with the original Defence media release):
https://www.defence.gov.au/news-events/news/2025-08-04/biggest-recruitment-surge-more-than-decade
changing the topic slightly, looks like there has been some wins over FY25 with defence recruitment. The above article should be accessible to all, but in case it is not (and I have updated with the original Defence media release):
- The defence workforce is now up to 61,100 permanent and full time people (targeting 69,000 by 2034). This is an increase of 1,800 people from a year ago
- 7,000 people recruited in the last 12 month, best figures for 25 years and 23% more than last year.
- Nearly 6,000 people took up the continuation bonus scheme
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I have my doubts about the U.S LOSVs too.
6 GPF built overseas + 6-8 built here sounds reasonable if they cancel the LOSV build of 6.
Or we could see Australia join the LUSV program the Japanese have going on.
Naval News (2m30 in)
The LCM concept always struck me as not one thing or the other.
Too small to carry a meaningful payload.
Load weight or lane meters.
Too big for a true riverine asset
Too short ranged for our needs
Coastal or OS
The LCM with a slight increase in size up to the French offering ticks the box
Cheers S