Yep .. good point, but I understood the Collins have decoupled control surfaces aft which means no loss of a pair in a burst line (I could be wrong). Even with a decoupled cruciform the same option should exist. Happy to be corrected.
d-ron84
Member
That’s more or less correct, with Collins if you’re down to either upper or lower C.S. you still have up/down and left/right control on two C.S. giving you much greater control then the cruciform design.
Q tank is to get the bow down quickly and is located in the fore-ends. It is blown as soon as the bow down angle is achieved (generally 10 degrees). It has a pretty significant impact on getting the bow down and is intended to enable a very quick change in depth when you get bounced (usually by air craft at Periscope depth).
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Will put this here as the RAN Thread is locked !
Live stream for the commissioning ceremony for HMAS Stalwart
www.facebook.com
Cheers
Live stream for the commissioning ceremony for HMAS Stalwart
HMAS Stalwart Commissioning | Join us as we welcome the second and final Supply Class Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment ship, #HMASStalwart into service for the Royal Australian Navy.... | By Chief of Navy AustraliaFacebook
Join us as we welcome the second and final Supply Class Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment ship, #HMASStalwart into service for the Royal Australian Navy....
www.facebook.com
Cheers
Good to seeWill put this here as the RAN Thread is locked !
Live stream for the commissioning ceremony for HMAS Stalwart
HMAS Stalwart Commissioning | Join us as we welcome the second and final Supply Class Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment ship, #HMASStalwart into service for the Royal Australian Navy.... | By Chief of Navy AustraliaFacebook
Join us as we welcome the second and final Supply Class Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment ship, #HMASStalwart into service for the Royal Australian Navy....
Cheers
The RAN will technically have three supply ships for a month until the decommissioning of HMAS Sirius on the 18th of December.
A nice number
Interestingly, HMAS Sirius just this week visited Norfolk island before she finally heads back west to Perth.
For those unfamiliar, HMS Sirius ( 1786 ) was apart of the First Fleet sailing to the new colony of New South Wales in 1788
She was later wrecked on a reef off Norfolk island in 1790.
Regards S
I still wonder whether there is scope to keep Sirius for a while, she still has life left in her.Good to see
The RAN will technically have three supply ships for a month until the decommissioning of HMAS Sirius on the 18th of December.
A nice number
Interestingly, HMAS Sirius just this week visited Norfolk island before she finally heads back west to Perth.
For those unfamiliar, HMS Sirius ( 1786 ) was apart of the First Fleet sailing to the new colony of New South Wales in 1788
She was later wrecked on a reef off Norfolk island in 1790.
Regards S
Has anyone seen any plans for her disposal ?
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Would be very surprised if Chile doesn't look very close at buying her. their current AOs are 37 and 34 years old. There is good relations, it appears the hand over of the 2 Adelaide's went well.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
She’s for sale, see section 2, page 29:
There was mention somewhere(?) a while ago that Chile was showing interest in her.
Cheers,
Flexson
Active Member
Makes sense she would visit before her decommissioning; Norfolk is her ceremonial home port and the ships colours are the same as the Norfolk Flag.
One of the top runners for Supply's ceremonial home port was Lord Howe Island but was out voted.
BZ to the commissioning crew of HMAS Stalwart, fair winds and following seas.
"The crew of HMAS Stalwart line the ship's upper decks during its commissioning ceremony at Fleet Base West, Rockingham." Image source : ADF image library
"The crew of HMAS Stalwart line the ship's upper decks during its commissioning ceremony at Fleet Base West, Rockingham." Image source : ADF image library
Commissioning video..
And before you ask, its completely boring, no dancing girls (or dancing boys). I swear there is something wrong with this country.. Defence is too bloody woke...
Beasley gave a mildly interesting (but snooze inducing) very long speech about Australia having built the 4th largest navy in the world, a cabinet meeting on ship where he tried to assassinate the prime minister, and the two aircraft carriers the RAN currently has. Crew interview at the end, mild jazz, singing a hymn blessings from the lord.
But no dancing. I guess that's the difference from an East coast to West coast commissioning. Probably affects recruitment and retention.
And before you ask, its completely boring, no dancing girls (or dancing boys). I swear there is something wrong with this country.. Defence is too bloody woke...
Beasley gave a mildly interesting (but snooze inducing) very long speech about Australia having built the 4th largest navy in the world, a cabinet meeting on ship where he tried to assassinate the prime minister, and the two aircraft carriers the RAN currently has. Crew interview at the end, mild jazz, singing a hymn blessings from the lord.
But no dancing. I guess that's the difference from an East coast to West coast commissioning. Probably affects recruitment and retention.
Glad to see the lack of dancers, Its a ship commisioning not a party. That said while I hate the term woke (why do they come up with new names for crap already named ugh) I dont think its bad for the ADF to be woke but how they go about it could be better. My view is if you can do the job doesnt matter if your male, female or other and are white, black, yellow or pink with purple poker dots let them do it.
As for the video, you could have shared that last night when I wqas trying to go to sleep, Not with my morning coffee. But welcome to the fleet Stalwart, Im sure you and the crews that go through it will do Australia proud.
What are the reasons the Hobart class destroyers are to be upgraded in their Aegis radars to potentially baseline 10 with an ABM capability instead of developing the Ceafar system used on the Hunter class for this
adbr.com.au
news.usni.org
Certainly, the article below suggests that Ceafar l has an anti-BLM capability potential
www.australiandefence.com.au
South Australia confirmed for Collins & Hobart class upgrades | ADBR
The Commonwealth has confirmed that the Royal Australian Navy’s Collins class submarine Life-of-Type Extension (LTE) and Hobart class destroyer upgrade will be conducted at the Osborne yard in Adelaide. The…
adbr.com.au
Aegis Combat System Baseline 10 Set to IOC in 2023 - USNI News
Lockheed Martin’s AEGIS weapon system upgrade – Baseline 10 – will incorporate a more powerful radar while providing backward compatibility for older ships.
news.usni.org
Sea Power: CEAFAR - now a fourth-generation radar | ADM Apr 08 - Australian Defence Magazine
-
www.australiandefence.com.au
Its speculative but there are some reasons about why we would go with a US radar system on the Hobarts.
1 - Size - The Hobarts are more limited than the Hunters on things like space, power, cooling. While we could reconfigure for a smaller mast, thats more money, development etc for a total of 3 ships. How much do you want to cut up existing ships to try and back fit something that is a challenging fit. AN/SPY-6 could offer closer to a drop in solution and closer fitout to US Burkes.
There is a mini SPY-6 designed to back fit into flight II ships based around 24 panels.
2 - Integration - Particularly around ballistic missile capability. BMD is very hard. BMD tests are very expensive. Integrating a new radar setup, and testing and proving it is cutting edge and expensive. Hobarts if they were to become BMD platforms, would require multiple tests with SM-2, SM-6 and SM-3. BMD you at the cutting edge of what is possible, so using any other radar may come up against issues of latency, bottlenecks etc, from unexpected things like software abstraction layers, translation/conversion processing to feed into existing algorithms, and to fix that may require huge efforts. More than one BMD system/version has become a technical dead end because its fundamentals were not scalable. While ceafar and other sensors might be able to feed into that loop, to assist and improve it would be a huge leap to be able to do it end to end on something like SM-3. Proving it also, hard and expensive, and time consuming. Future weapons and integration are also in the same boat. It could be useful to have the Hobarts on a platform that could take updates quickly.
This isn't to say CEAFAR can't do BMD. Its just about BMD on the Hobarts, right now, particularly with something high end joint BMD, where 5-6 aegis ships, and other sensors are all integrated and sharing radar data to make a hit. The USN is probably 5-7 years ahead of AU putting to sea a fully fledge Aegis ship with SPY-6 over AU and the hunters.
For the 3 Hobarts an out of the box off the shelf solution would be highly attractive. Lower risk, higher levels of USN compatibility. We can then also do some of the SPY-6/Ceafar compatibility stuff with our own navy, as we would have both types.
That also said, not a whole lot of official info on the Hobart upgrades is decided or public. After initially hearing that 9LV consoles and Ceafar2 would would be back ported to the Hobarts, things have gone quiet.
BMD is also something that goes beyond RAN. You should really be talking space assets, JORN for early warning, E7 integration, forward deployed radars etc.
1 - Size - The Hobarts are more limited than the Hunters on things like space, power, cooling. While we could reconfigure for a smaller mast, thats more money, development etc for a total of 3 ships. How much do you want to cut up existing ships to try and back fit something that is a challenging fit. AN/SPY-6 could offer closer to a drop in solution and closer fitout to US Burkes.
There is a mini SPY-6 designed to back fit into flight II ships based around 24 panels.
Air and Missile Defense Radar (AMDR)
The AN/SPY-6(V)1 Air and Missile Defense Radar (AMDR) is the Navy's next generation radar system that will address Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) and Air Defense (AD) capability gaps identified in
www.navy.mil
2 - Integration - Particularly around ballistic missile capability. BMD is very hard. BMD tests are very expensive. Integrating a new radar setup, and testing and proving it is cutting edge and expensive. Hobarts if they were to become BMD platforms, would require multiple tests with SM-2, SM-6 and SM-3. BMD you at the cutting edge of what is possible, so using any other radar may come up against issues of latency, bottlenecks etc, from unexpected things like software abstraction layers, translation/conversion processing to feed into existing algorithms, and to fix that may require huge efforts. More than one BMD system/version has become a technical dead end because its fundamentals were not scalable. While ceafar and other sensors might be able to feed into that loop, to assist and improve it would be a huge leap to be able to do it end to end on something like SM-3. Proving it also, hard and expensive, and time consuming. Future weapons and integration are also in the same boat. It could be useful to have the Hobarts on a platform that could take updates quickly.
This isn't to say CEAFAR can't do BMD. Its just about BMD on the Hobarts, right now, particularly with something high end joint BMD, where 5-6 aegis ships, and other sensors are all integrated and sharing radar data to make a hit. The USN is probably 5-7 years ahead of AU putting to sea a fully fledge Aegis ship with SPY-6 over AU and the hunters.
For the 3 Hobarts an out of the box off the shelf solution would be highly attractive. Lower risk, higher levels of USN compatibility. We can then also do some of the SPY-6/Ceafar compatibility stuff with our own navy, as we would have both types.
That also said, not a whole lot of official info on the Hobart upgrades is decided or public. After initially hearing that 9LV consoles and Ceafar2 would would be back ported to the Hobarts, things have gone quiet.
BMD is also something that goes beyond RAN. You should really be talking space assets, JORN for early warning, E7 integration, forward deployed radars etc.
Just a quick point, AEGIS is the name of a combat management system, not a radar. The main radar fitted to the Hobarts is the SPY-1D(V) radar system.What are the reasons the Hobart class destroyers are to be upgraded in their Aegis radars to potentially baseline 10 with an ABM capability instead of developing the Ceafar system used on the Hunter class for this
South Australia confirmed for Collins & Hobart class upgrades | ADBR
The Commonwealth has confirmed that the Royal Australian Navy’s Collins class submarine Life-of-Type Extension (LTE) and Hobart class destroyer upgrade will be conducted at the Osborne yard in Adelaide. The…Certainly, the article below suggests that Ceafar l has an anti-BLM capability potentialAegis Combat System Baseline 10 Set to IOC in 2023 - USNI News
Lockheed Martin’s AEGIS weapon system upgrade – Baseline 10 – will incorporate a more powerful radar while providing backward compatibility for older ships.
Sea Power: CEAFAR - now a fourth-generation radar | ADM Apr 08 - Australian Defence Magazine
-
AEGIS updates are fundamental to opening up capabilities that are currently not available on the Hobart Class Destroyers. A perfect example is the future employment of the SM-6 missile, which provides a range of capability advantages over the existing SM-2 missile based capability employed on these ships, including but not limited to greater engagement range / altitude, additional mission sets such as an anti-ship missile mode, a terminal ballistic missile defence mode as well as different firing modes from the legacy SM-2 capability with a new guidance package that allows SM-6 to be fired in a legacy semi-active radar homing manner as SM-2 currently does (with a couple of exceptions) or in a new active radar homing manner, similar to the capability displayed by AMRAAM air to air missiles.
Hobart class currently have the AEGIS Baseline 8 set of capabilities, which do not support (among other things) the SM-6 missile system. Hence the need to upgrade AEGIS (and perhaps the radar) on the Hobarts to support the introduction of these advanced new missiles and related capabilities (fire control and so on).
Whether CEA radars or not were to be installed on these vessels, the AEGIS combat system would still require upgrades to maintain it’s capability with respect to evolving threats. I’d suggest the scale of upgrade necessary to migrate the class from SPY-1D (V) to a CEA based radar would be so substantial as to approach almost entirely rebuilding the boats… I’m not sure the capability delivered would be worth the cost of that, even if it were technically feasible…
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
'Unknown sailor' identified as 21-year-old Thomas Welsby Clark
Exactly 80 years to the day after HMAS Sydney sank in a World War II battle, the identity of the only crew member ever recovered is revealed.
www.abc.net.au
The identity of the only body ever found from HMAS Sydney(2) as been revealed as 20yo Able Seaman Thomas Welsby Clark. His remains were washed ashore on Christmas Island 11 weeks after Sydney sunk.