Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Koalisi Masyarakat Sipil mendesak pemerintah membentuk tim independen untuk mengaudit alutista. Serta mendesak pemerintah tidak menggunakan alutsista yang sudah tua dan sudah berumur 20 tahun ke atas sampai hasil audit selesai dilakukan.

............

"Mengapa pilihan overhaul itu dilakukan di Korea Selatan dan bukan di Jerman? Padahal, kapal selam ini di produksi oleh pabrikan Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft di Jerman bukan oleh Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering, Korea Selatan," ungkap Adnan.

"Kami mendesak agar pemerintah dan DPR mengevaluasi dan mengaudit semua proses kerja sama antara pemerintah Indonesia dengan Korea Selatan mulai dari kapal selam, kapal perang, pesawat tempur KFX/ IFX (KF-21Boramae) dan lainnya," sambungnya.
"Koalisi Masyarakat Sipil"
What kind of "ormas kurang jelas" is this!?
A bunch of so called 'defence experts'?

I sense some hostility towards South-Korean defence products. I am not surprised if some big friend of @Ahmad and @Ananda is on its members.




Some 'experts' on the internet claim that the accident was caused by overload. Probably they compare a submarine with a ferryboat.

 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
The KRI Cakra 401 and Nanggala 402 are not in the possession of an escape hatch/emergency access door to able the crew to be rescued by a deep submersible rescue vehicle.
I do believe most DSRV (especially the ones that made on Western specifications) can handle most submarine hatches. India send their DSRV which can fit even their Russian made Kilo's.

AP.jpg

Not Submarine expert, however isn't that hatch in the front section (where it also can be use as the access for torpedo), are where DSRV can access too. I believe there is another hatch in the aft that can also be used.

sense some hostility towards South-Korean defence products.
NGO's mostly hired guns. They will work depends on whose hired them on each project. You can just follow their contributors trails to see who's hired them on each specific project. After all, Defense is big business. Nobody cares on them anyway, except some journalists ;)

Anyway, as usual any incidents (especially major ones) related to TNI assets, will attract Politicians, NGO's or "analyst" and media to act like "pressure" parties to forward their own angle.


infografis-dokumen-apbn-dan-nota-keuangan-dari-website-kementerian-keuangan-new.jpeg

This one come from CNN Indonesia, shown trend of Defense Budget from Soeharto times to Present Administration. Which shown why many Politicians, NGO's and "analysts" attracted like flies to defense "Projects" whenever chances open for them. Now it's one of those chances.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I do believe most DSRV (especially the ones that made on Western specifications) can handle most submarine hatches. India send their DSRV which can fit even their Russian made Kilo's.

View attachment 48185

Not Submarine expert, however isn't that hatch in the front section (where it also can be use as the access for torpedo), are where DSRV can access too. I believe there is another hatch in the aft that can also be used.



NGO's mostly hired guns. They will work depends on whose hired them on each project. You can just follow their contributors trails to see who's hired them on each specific project. After all, Defense is big business. Nobody cares on them anyway, except some journalists ;)

Anyway, as usual any incidents (especially major ones) related to TNI assets, will attract Politicians, NGO's or "analyst" and media to act like "pressure" parties to forward their own angle.


View attachment 48186

This one come from CNN Indonesia, shown trend of Defense Budget from Soeharto times to Present Administration. Which shown why many Politicians, NGO's and "analysts" attracted like flies to defense "Projects" whenever chances open for them. Now it's one of those chances.
What i mean are really emergency escape hatches, like those in the Collins, Project 636 and Virginia classes, for example. You can see it on this cut-through drawing of a Project 636, and on this video.

As far as i know the Type 209/1300 boats do not have such access doors capable of mating with a DSRV.


Looking to the image above, it seems that the budget for new alutsista also increase after 2014. I wonder what happened with all that money, because not much have been bought in those years.


I want to add this. There is no art-thread at Defencetalk, so ill post this here.
Im not an professional illustrator, but i just had to draw this.
 

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Ananda

The Bunker Group
far as i know the Type 209/1300 boats do not have such access doors capable of mating with a DSRV.

From the manufacturer video, the dry matting skirt below DSRV are design to able enclosed multi-nation origin hatch. So it's not the type of hatch that matter. Seems as long as the pressure on skirt below safely enclosed it, then the connection can be done.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member

From the manufacturer video, the dry matting skirt below DSRV are design to able enclosed multi-nation origin hatch. So it's not the type of hatch that matter. Seems as long as the pressure on skirt below safely enclosed it, then the connection can be done.

I think one issue would be, if it's not mated to a hatch connecting to a lock-out trunk, any loss of seal during a transfer could flood the entire compartment, as opposed to just the trunk as with a proper escape facility. Interesting idea however.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
if it's not mated to a hatch connecting to a lock-out trunk, any loss of seal during a transfer could flood the entire compartment, as opposed to just the trunk as with a proper escape facility.

This is another video that shown how the dry matting skirt in DSRV work (from"1:10"). It shown the working concept of using outside sea as pressure regulators. Basically when the skirt enclose the hatch in the submarine, they pump the water out and let sea pressure push the skirt hold tight to the stricken submarine. When the DSRV want to separate, they reflood the skirt to syncronise the pressure with outside sea.

Recent build DSRV (especialy Euro's design) use this as it's more flexible that it can be use on multiple submarines without the need for submarine it self has specialise presurise escape hatch, or lock out mechanism.
That kind of hatch (just like in India's 209), more for special forces divers conveniences.
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Having a sensible conversation on the TNI AL’s shortcomings — Part 2


From the manufacturer video, the dry matting skirt below DSRV are design to able enclosed multi-nation origin hatch. So it's not the type of hatch that matter. Seems as long as the pressure on skirt below safely enclosed it, then the connection can be done.
2. Modern submarines (including the TNI AL’s Nagapasa-class class, to some degree) are designed with hatches and interfaces that are standardised to STANAG 1297 rules. This allows interoperability between the DSRV (conducting the dry rescue) and the submarines of another nation that meet the same standards.

(a) I am just not sure of the degree to which KRI Nanggala meets the STANAG 1297 rules, as the submarine is so old. Whereas the Challenger-class, the Archer-class, the Västergötland-class, the Gotland-class, the Invincible-class and the Son Wonil-class are all capable of rescue in accordance with STANAG 1297 rules (as the Swedish, Korean and Singapore navies all maintain a submarine rescue capability).​

(b) Adherence to STANAG 1297 rules means that when the DSRV mates with the submarine in distress, at depth, the hull will not crack and seal integrity is maintained. All this talk about a rescue seat, it’s really talk of a ‘ring’ mating area that is strong enough to take part of the weight of the DSRV on that tiny area, to enable a dry seal. This seal can be formed even up to a 60 degree angle, just-in-case, the submarine in distress is not resting perfectly upright. According to a Polish study, this dry mating process with the submarine in distress is not without risk (to the Kobben class). A seal failure is catastrophic and may kill all also the sailors in the rescue attempt, keeping in mind that the DSRV can’t take all the crew in a single rescue attempt. Multiple matings of the DSRV is needed for a swift rescue (pardon the unintended pun).​

3. Singapore’s DSTA specified MV Swift Rescue is an 85-metre-long vessel built using the ABS specifications and equipped with Dynamic Positioning-2 capability. It houses the rescue payload, certified by classification society Lloyd’s Register, on its main deck where the main bulk of the rescue mission will be executed. Centred at the aft deck, the 30- tonne LARS is able to launch and recover the submersible up to Sea State 5 without the aid of swimmers. DSAR6, operated by two pilots and with a capacity for 17 personnel, is normally stowed in the sheltered hangar mid-ship on the main deck where the TUP system is installed. The submersible DSAR6 has an aft hatch to enable the pressurised transfer of personnel into the TUP system.

4. The NATO Submarine Rescue System is even more capable and able to recover the submersible up to Sea State 6 at a certified depth of 600 metres — way beyond the never-exceed depth of KRI Nanggala.
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Having a sensible conversation on the TNI AL’s shortcomings — Part 3

5. Fanboys talk about naval war. Professionals talk about presence and naval domain awareness to make best use of limited assets—often in collaboration with more capable navies, like the RAN, the JMSDF and the USN — I wish that the TNI AL can be the best that it can be on a limited budget — rather than talk of a grand vision without the ability to execute its planned buy plans (to replace obsolete vessels), and to raise, train, maintain or sustain its new vessels.
(i) In the near future, the maintaining a 24/7, 365 day, a year presence in the South China Sea, through the acquisition of new vessels will serious matter for any naval planner operating in these waters.​
(ii) The ability to support a rapid turnaround of high-end naval combatants in support of national requirements—in this case, enforcement of Chinese maritime claims—is an indication that the PLA(N) surface force is increasingly ready to conduct operations (see this 2017 article on: China's Evolving Surface Fleet). That force will continue to be challenged by the level of maintenance its complex new systems require, as well as by the logistics demands imposed by increasing operations in distant seas. These are, however, challenges that the PLA(N) will address.​

6. It is clear that in lesser forums, unfair and illogical criticism of the TNI AL proliferate but here in DT, we try to have a sense of balance — supportive of real Indonesian efforts at naval capability development while being critical of valid short comings in Jokowi's first term plans and the TNI AL’s current fleet design.
It is their job to scrutinize the government spending. It's only a shame that sometimes, they scrutinize them by talking out of their ass. I can only hope that they conduct a thorough investigation so that the actual planner and expert can refute his dumb claims with facts.
7. Of the 7 Summits, the tallest peak on each continent, Mount Aconcagua in Argentina is considered a straight-forward mountain to climb. Aspirants do not need any specialized technical skills. Reaching the top is a matter of putting one foot in front of the other, yet many fail to reach the summit. Just as the erosion of Argentine naval capabilities has impacted upon the regional balance of power in 2021; the erosion of the TNI AL’s naval capacities and its regional standing with other ASEAN navies due to piss poor and illogical planning, under Jokowi's sevond term, will affect the balance of power in the South China Sea in the 2026 to 2030 period.

8. The loss of the USS Thresher led to a sea change in the USN submarine force. After the sinking, the service instituted SUBSAFE, a program that ensures the safe operation of submarines. SUBSAFE monitors the design and construction of new submarines to ensure that boats can remain watertight and survive accidents at sea. Like the Argentinian Navy, the TNI AL needs to learn from their recent loss of a submarine — to make sure that the unlikely event of needing a submarine rescue capability is planned for and properly resourced, up front.

(i) The insidious threats of harsh weather and a lack of oxygen are the real barriers to climbing Mount Aconcagua, in Argentina. Pretentious climbers unacclimated to high-altitude and outfitted with unsuitable gear are practically guaranteed to fail to reach the summit of Mount Aconcagua.​
(ii) Just as the Mount Aconcagua has no physical impediments blocking access to the peak, building an ASW capability and a submarine rescue capability for the TNI AL just takes determination and proper allocation a navy’s of priorities — putting the safety of their sailors first — to spend enough to maintain existing submarines and upgrade them at the right time (to extend the lifespan).​

9. As leader of ASEAN and a G20 member, Indonesia talks about a vision for a Global Maritime Fulcrum. To support this grand vision, the MEF plans on acquiring a total of 12 submarines (and building them locally), and a significant number of frigates, capable of ASW, which is a pretentious naval power goal. In contrast:
(i) Singapore’s unpretentious and limited goal is to buy and maintain a submarine fleet of 4, with numbers rising only during a transition from a older type with its replacement — there is no intention to develop a local submarine building capability.​
(ii) For ASW, the towed arrays on Singapore’s 6 frigates are the 2nd line of defence against enemy submarines, with the 1st line provided by Singapore’s 5 Fokker 50 MPAs and 4 submarines. The 3rd line of defence, against enemy submarines, is provided by 8 Seahawks.​
(iii) According to Dr J B Lakeman and Dr D J Browning, The Role of Fuel Cells in the Supply of Silent Power for Operations in Littoral Waters, (Gosport: 2004), in page 47-3, of the four AIP systems, fuel cells are the most efficient in oxygen consumption, consuming approximately 0.4 kilograms of oxygen per kilowatt hour (kgO2/kWh), compared to ~0.75 kgO2/kWh for the Closed cycle diesel, ~0.95 kgO2/kWh for the Stirling system, and ~1.1 kgO2/kWh for the MESMA system. The MESMA has a relatively small customer base having only been retrofitted into Pakistani submarines. In setting limited technological advancement goals, the Singapore Navy finds enough money to operate a 4 Type 218SGs, that use fuel cells and move away from the Stirling system.​

(iv) Singapore is also able to constantly sustain its long term ship building plan, with the completion of 8 LMVs. To adapt to change, due to Malaysian hostility, the Singapore Navy re-introduced 4 Sentinel-class vessels (as a short term adaptation before mid or longer term plans can kick-in).​

10.There are 3Qns the TNI AL needs to answer:

Q1: Why can’t the TNI AL do the logical and reasonable in the medium (2021 to 2025) to long term plans (2026 to 2030)? This includes acquiring a submarine rescue capability by 2030, before getting talking about building more capable submarines.​
Q2: What type of frigate does the TNI AL really need to acquire a respectable ASW task group capability?​
Q3: What are the minimum build plan numbers needed for TNI AL frigates, to maintain a constant presence during a troubled peace?​

11. Creating an ASW task group, is a true naval team sport, where Blue team MPAs, work with 3 to 4 ship borne helicopters, a submarine and fleet of ships with towed arrays to chase and kill an enemy submarine. The TNI AL needs to start build plans for 6 to 8 of a class of vessel and stop trying to build 2 or 3s. Pleased to see Japan proposing to the TNI AL a sale of four new Mogami-class frigates to Indonesia, and a follow-on plan to build four more in Indonesia along with financing for the proposed 8 frigate acquisition program. A high degree of automation allows the Mogami-class frigate to be operated by a crew of just 90 personnel, a drastic reduction from its predecessor the Asagiri-class destroyer which has a complement of 220. The MHI designed frigate also has a CIC with a unique circular arrangement and open-bridge concept. It features 18 multi-function displays and 2 tactical tables and overhead screens that can project 360 degree augmented reality views of the ship.

12. If the TNI AL’s vessels and boats are sinking during peace time (with no help from the enemy submarines), what is going to happen to TNI AL vessels and boats when the PLA(N), apply a little pressure over 365 days a year, in the early 2030s? Having a less pretentious naval power goal can work too. Just maintain your vessels well and invest in a systems of systems approach to integrating platforms is better than grand visions without substance.
 
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STURM

Well-Known Member
The RMN has announced that the Mega Bakti is involved in efforts to further locate debris and that any change will depend on instructions from the TNI. The 80 metre rescue vessel deployed to Australia for Pacific Reach 2019. Prior to that she deployed to South Korea for Pacific Reach 2016 where she performed simulated rescues on HMAS Rankin and ROKS Changbogo.

Originally constructed by Keppel Singmarine in 2012; her official designation is a 'Submarine Escape and Rescue Intervention' ship. Her ROVs and DSRV can operate up to a depth of 650 metres and she has been certified by the USN and fitted with a 'Ship Interface Template Set' enabling her to operate alongside the USN's Submarine Rescue and Diving and Recompression [SRDS] System and Pressurised Rescue Module System [PRMS].
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

I'm bit worry this project will get too much heat during this "euphoria" after Nanggala accident. Some Politicians in Parliament already talk about scraping this 401 Tjakra, instead finishing the overhaul projects. However it same time demand for new Submarines Projects being fasten. All this Political demand can easily turn to another Political Shenanigans, in covering another drive for new/uncontrollable Projects.

Let's see what happens so far:
  1. Politicians now demand for new Defense assets, new submarine, new priority on acquisition. However not talking much on how to provide good maintenance program for existing assets.
  2. Drive from some community influencers to gather traditional 'crowd' funding for new Submarines. Come on, do they really understand how much it costs for new submarine ?
  3. Some NGO's especially the ones that 'hostile' to TNI, demand audit for Defense procurement budget. Eventough on paper it's a noble cause and demand. However knowing some of the NGO's involve, I'm afraid it's just another smeared campaign purpose.
  4. MinDef now in the pressure to provide long term work plan for Defense development. Prabowo's already mentioned it, in fact before this incident he already mentioned in media that he will come to Jokowi sometime before mid year to provide his assessment on Indonesian defense postures.
  5. With all the noise in media from politicians and "analysts" ( i.e lobbyist), even some community 'leader', all of this can side line priorities and time line.
Why don't just demand MinDef to shown the road plan. How it's going to differed from existing MEF road plan that already set from SBY era ? How's it's going to achieve with budget allocation projections ? How it's going to benefits local defense Industry, which so far still the prerequisites politically ?

All of this instead some groups now talking nonsense in media. Just drawing crowds and noices and potentially sidetracked the real jobs.

Even with all shortcomings, Soeharto's regime defense plan in 90's including their plan for growth in local Defense Industry, is still clearer than all the Administration after his falls. Especially current ones.

Let and demand MinDef to shown what's their plan, ask and demand the Parliament to be consistent in guarding that. If not it will be just like current MEF work plan that can be deviate and reprioritize every changes in Political landscape.

Again, that's the problem right now, poor planning implementation coupled with poor planning process it self. What's the point making plan, if it can be changes and adjust anytime depends on Political mood. Can Indonesian Political circles committed on long term work plan ? Can they discipline on right implementation on those long term plan ?

Ironically, Soeharto regime can do it. Yes they are corrupt, but they're still running their plan base on more stable blue print. While the Administrations after that "??"

Can Indonesian doing better planning then the Dictators in the past ?? Is it difficult for now so call 'democratics' Administration to be more discipline on setting long term blue prints, compared to a corrupt dictator regime ?
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

I'm bit worry this project will get too much heat during this "euphoria" after Nanggala accident. Some Politicians in Parliament already talk about scraping this 401 Tjakra, instead finishing the overhaul projects. However it same time demand for new Submarines Projects being fasten. All this Political demand can easily turn to another Political Shenanigans, in covering another drive for new/uncontrollable Projects.

Let's see what happens so far:
  1. Politicians now demand for new Defense assets, new submarine, new priority on acquisition. However not talking much on how to provide good maintenance program for existing assets.
  2. Drive from some community influencers to gather traditional 'crowd' funding for new Submarines. Come on, do they really understand how much it costs for new submarine ?
  3. Some NGO's especially the ones that 'hostile' to TNI, demand audit for Defense procurement budget. Eventough on paper it's a noble cause and demand. However knowing some of the NGO's involve, I'm afraid it's just another smeared campaign purpose.
  4. MinDef now in the pressure to provide long term work plan for Defense development. Prabowo's already mentioned it, in fact before this incident he already mentioned in media that he will come to Jokowi sometime before mid year to provide his assessment on Indonesian defense postures.
  5. With all the noise in media from politicians and "analysts" ( i.e lobbyist), even some community 'leader', all of this can side line priorities and time line.
Why don't just demand MinDef to shown the road plan. How it's going to differed from existing MEF road plan that already set from SBY era ? How's it's going to achieve with budget allocation projections ? How it's going to benefits local defense Industry, which so far still the prerequisites politically ?

All of this instead some groups now talking nonsense in media. Just drawing crowds and noices and potentially sidetracked the real jobs.

Even with all shortcomings, Soeharto's regime defense plan in 90's including their plan for growth in local Defense Industry, is still clearer than all the Administration after his falls. Especially current ones.

Let and demand MinDef to shown what's their plan, ask and demand the Parliament to be consistent in guarding that. If not it will be just like current MEF work plan that can be deviate and reprioritize every changes in Political landscape.

Again, that's the problem right now, poor planning implementation coupled with poor planning process it self. What's the point making plan, if it can be changes and adjust anytime depends on Political mood. Can Indonesian Political circles committed on long term work plan ? Can they discipline on right implementation on those long term plan ?

Ironically, Soeharto regime can do it. Yes they are corrupt, but they're still running their plan base on more stable blue print. While the Administrations after that "??"

Can Indonesian doing better planning then the Dictators in the past ?? Is it difficult for now so call 'democratics' Administration to be more discipline on setting long term blue prints, compared to a corrupt dictator regime ?
From which i understand a contract for a second batch of three Nagapasa-class boats was already signed, but then suddenly cancelled by this amazing administration.

But that means that the budget of around $1M for this batch is still available....somewhere.

TNI-AL needs more submarines, and at least one submarine rescue ship. SBY's MEF-planning is good, but as you said the current administration completely messed everything up.

We need a 24/7/365 presence of at least one ship in Laut Natuna, but im afraid that all that noise from those weird NGO's, politicans and 'experts' will cause even more delay in defence equipment procurements.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
Looking to the image above, it seems that the budget for new alutsista also increase after 2014. I wonder what happened with all that money, because not much have been bought in those years.
Well they have to paid many SBY's defense projects that being delivered in Jokowi's first term. Including DSME 1400 and SIGMA PKR. The problem is that the previous term should already execute defense project contracts that mostly going to be paid by second term. However due to practically inept execution of planing from previous term, this second term has to play catch up.

That's why Prabowo's before also trying to get some second hand asets for stop gap to catching up the development plan (whatever they still has). The overhaul projects being done toward Fatahilla corvettes, 401 Tjakra, original F-16 fleet is also part of that. However with opposition on second hand assets, gaining momentum with Nagapasa incident. I think they have no other choices to relied with more overhaul projects on existing assets, for stop gap.

Getting new assets asside budget concern, also facing time delay and industrial capacity building (as local industry involvement political preequisites). Which I don't think even somehow they got contracted in this year, most will be available by end of this term. Even if Jokowi and his Political supporters want to tone down some of local industry involvement preequisite, it can only fasten some assets delivery time.

That's the damage the inept first term MinDef done. If this second term doing similar mistakes again, I don't know how the next administrations able to catch up on procurement schedulle, let alone developing local industries capabilities involvement.
 
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hauritz

Well-Known Member
To be honest has there ever been a successful submarine rescue?

There have been cases of crew escaping by themselves but I have yet to find a single example of crew being rescued by DSRV. I tend to think that the best solution might be to develop better escape systems from the submarines themselves.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
tend to think that the best solution might be to develop better escape systems from the submarines themselves.
I believe that's what @kato put in his post on previous page as options on Submarine rescue system. I check on German RESUS system as below:


However to be honest either Submarine internal rescue system like this RESUS or External rescue system like DSRV hasn't been tested on recent times, mostly because most of the Submarine accidents happen to nation's that either don't have it or the accident happen too fast (like Argentina or Indonesia), or too late to ask for help (like Russia and China).

DSRV to be fair has to be ready ASAP after the accident. With Indonesia and Singapore submarine rescue agreement, MV Swift Rescue actually still able to come at the projected time line on Nanggala life system reserve. However the finding on Nanggala condition so far shown that the accident happen quite fast, that nothing external rescue apparatus can do to help.

Could it be using RESUS system can help the Submarine ? I don't know, the submarine it self is German Build thus theoriticaly it should be compatible with the system.

The incident has prompt urgency for building submarine rescue apparatus in Indonesia. Something that has been delayed for long time. All Submarine nation's users now been shown that building submarine rescue system (whether Internal like RESUS or External like DSRV) is a must.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
To be honest has there ever been a successful submarine rescue?

There have been cases of crew escaping by themselves but I have yet to find a single example of crew being rescued by DSRV. I tend to think that the best solution might be to develop better escape systems from the submarines themselves.
Submarines have a dark history in terms of rescues. There have been many things tried along the way. Even if they get to the surface, in sight of shore, almost whole crews have been lost.


During the whole of WW2, only 4 British submariners ever survived a stricken submarine underwater. Survival was so unlikely, that even those survival stories were often believe to be fabricated, more likely they had gone AWOL and the submarine sunk without them on board. One story was so impossible, that it wasn't until 1997 that it was confirmed as an accurate survival.

More submarine rescue systems in operation in the region and allies (and foes!) is a good thing.

Seems like Indonesia is claiming an internal wave destroyed the submarine.

No doubt Indonesia is going to have a hard look at its submarines and how it supports and operates that capability.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
It seems that Indonesia has requested the assistance from china to recover the KRI Nanggala 402.


- The Yongxingdao 863 is a Type 925 Submarine Support Ship.
- The second ship seems to be a tug.
- Here some more information about the third one, Tan Suo Er Hao
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
The X3200.
A new design of Pt Lundin. The 31,4 m long futuristic looking patrol boat looks fast, but its maximum speed is just a disappointing 20 kts. Also the machineguns mess up the stylish lines.

The positive point of this design is the maximum range of 5000 nm, very impressive for such a small size.

Its just a design, and maybe it will never be build in reality for military purposes. Until now the progress on the KRI Klewang trimaran is also very slowly.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The X3200.
A new design of Pt Lundin. The 31,4 m long futuristic looking patrol boat looks fast, but its maximum speed is just a disappointing 20 kts. Also the machineguns mess up the stylish lines.

The positive point of this design is the maximum range of 5000 nm, very impressive for such a small size.

Its just a design, and maybe it will never be build in reality for military purposes. Until now the progress on the KRI Klewang trimaran is also very slowly.
I’ve just done a quick calculation for how much fuel would be needed for this PB to steam 5000nms at 12kts with the engines fitted.
I’m familiar with both types of engine listed, 450hp approx, fitted in a 30mtr hull.
I’ll be kind and use their 12kts figure but that speed is well above hull speed and those engines would be working hard but let’s use a cruise consumption of around 180lph including gensets.
So, 5000 miles at 12kts (300miles per day) is 16.66 days. - 180lph x 24 = 4,320lpday
4320 x 16.66 is close enough to 72,000 ltrs.
That’s a large fuel load for a 30mtr PB (57.6 tonnes of [email protected])
Carrying that load around with the power available means those engines would almost be at full power to achieve 12kts and the fuel consumption would increase exponentially.
so with the greatest respect, I’m calling the advertised performance “ambitious”.
Finally, I don’t believe a 30mtr hull powered by a total of 900shp could ever achieve anywhere near 20kts.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I’ve just done a quick calculation for how much fuel would be needed for this PB to steam 5000nms at 12kts with the engines fitted.
I’m familiar with both types of engine listed, 450hp approx, fitted in a 30mtr hull.
I’ll be kind and use their 12kts figure but that speed is well above hull speed and those engines would be working hard but let’s use a cruise consumption of around 180lph including gensets.
So, 5000 miles at 12kts (300miles per day) is 16.66 days. - 180lph x 24 = 4,320lpday
4320 x 16.66 is close enough to 72,000 ltrs.
That’s a large fuel load for a 30mtr PB (57.6 tonnes of [email protected])
Carrying that load around with the power available means those engines would almost be at full power to achieve 12kts and the fuel consumption would increase exponentially.
so with the greatest respect, I’m calling the advertised performance “ambitious”.
Finally, I don’t believe a 30mtr hull powered by a total of 900shp could ever achieve anywhere near 20kts.
Thank you for sharing.
72.000 liter, my goodness. That is also around 57.600 kg of Jet A-1 / Avtur. Almost 3 times a 737NG / MAX can handle.

Looking to your calculation, this X3200 will never become reality.
 
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