Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

a bonus some nice photos of the KRI Ardadedali 404 arriving at Natuna. On the last photo we can see another Type 209/1400, but it is unclear if its the KRI Nagapasa 403 or the KRI Alugoro 405.

Seems the photos posted by @Sandhi Yudha is part of commencement of what TNI-AL call 'auxiliary submarine base' in Natuna.

KSAL Resmikan Pembangunan Stasiun Bantu Kapal Selam di Natuna Halaman all - Kompas.com

Laksamana Yudo Margono menandatangani prasasti pembangunan stasiun bantu kapal selam dan peresmian Mes Tjiptadi, di Selat Lampa, Natuna. Halaman all

nasional.kompas.com

From Kompas artikel this base is not for longterm support for Submarine operations. However can be point for logistics and 'recharge' to prolong operation in the area.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Seems the photos posted by @Sandhi Yudha is part of commencement of what TNI-AL call 'auxiliary submarine base' in Natuna.

KSAL Resmikan Pembangunan Stasiun Bantu Kapal Selam di Natuna Halaman all - Kompas.com

Laksamana Yudo Margono menandatangani prasasti pembangunan stasiun bantu kapal selam dan peresmian Mes Tjiptadi, di Selat Lampa, Natuna. Halaman all

nasional.kompas.com

From Kompas artikel this base is not for longterm support for Submarine operations. However can be point for logistics and 'recharge' to prolong operation in the area.

Thank you for sharing.
So this submarine support station is built on a piece of land of 1100m2, that could be like 55m × 20m. Thats really a tiny piece of land, to handle something like 61 meters long.

 

[Ananda]

Seems it will only to support one submarine at the time. It will not be for long term period, just like way station for Submarine in Natuna.
This is more to shown that TNI-AL base in Natuna now has ability to support prolong Submarine operation.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Seems it will only to support one submarine at the time. It will not be for long term period, just like way station for Submarine in Natuna.
This is more to shown that TNI-AL base in Natuna now has ability to support prolong Submarine operation.

This Dermaga Faslabuh looks like another facility than the submarine support station, and is probably the main naval base on Natuna. Its large enough for several frigates and submarines.

https://www.facebook.com/181276675314017/posts/3534892996619018

 

[Ananda]

This Dermaga Faslabuh looks like another facility than the submarine support station, and is probably the main naval base on Natuna.

What I can't find is the time interval between 404 and 405 in Natuna. Are both operating on same period or 405 replacing 404 in Natuna's operation.

I tend to believe the later, I don't think in this present condition TNI-AL have abilities to operate (part of regular operation) two submarine in same period of time in certain similar area. I suspect that's why the Auxiliary Submarine base size seems catering for one Submarine at the time.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

What I can't find is the time interval between 404 and 405 in Natuna. Are both operating on same period or 405 replacing 404 in Natuna's operation.

I tend to believe the later, I don't think in this present condition TNI-AL have abilities to operate (part of regular operation) two submarine in same period of time in certain similar area. I suspect that's why the Auxiliary Submarine base size seems catering for one Submarine at the time.

I have no idea. It can be both, maybe the 405 changes shift with the 404, maybe they operate at the same moment around Natuna because it is part of the exercise or because the 405 and it's crew are brandnew.
The Type 209 has a long endurance, so probably the submarine support station doesnt need to be able to moor multiple submarines at once for fuel, food and water supplies.


Now something about BAKAMLA.
Here we can see the Special Response Team (SRT) Bakamla performing an exercise at Pelabuhan Tanjung Priok, Jakarta Utara. Are these assault rifle some variant of M4 or HK416?

Photos are from Humas BAKAMLA.

 

[Arji]

Are these assault rifle some variant of M4?

Isn't that HK416? I'm surprised they have the budget for such an expensive rifle.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Isn't that HK416? I'm surprised they have the budget for such an expensive rifle.

Yes i was comparing HK416-aanvalsgeweer en HK417-scherpschuttersgeweer with M4 images....
But i am not an assault rifle expert....

Probably the budget is large enough for a small amount of such rifles. I just do not understand why they do not bought the SS2-V5 A1.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Can this be an attempt of the americans to promote the F-18E/F to Indonesia?

Lembaga Keris has written about this, but sadly they mix up "EEZ" and "territorial waters".

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379442073460383750

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379723538697908224

Ramai Video Pesawat Tempur Asing Terbang Rendah di Natuna, Ini Kata TNI AU

TNI AU bicara soal pesawat tempur asing terbang rendah diduga di perairan Natuna. #kumparanNEWS

m.kumparan.com

 

[Ananda]

Yes, and when you see those Indonesian forumers comment, then you will realize too many 'idiots' in Indonesia online community that like to shout before read carefully.

TNI-AU already informed publicly that the Oil Rig is locate in Natuna's EEZ and not Natuna's territorial waters. As usual many of those online 'idiots' already talking hotly on US encroachment on territorial waters. They can use internet but not bothering just to Google the difference between EEZ and territorial waters

There're also 'sane' forumers that try too inform them the difference between Territorial Waters and EEZ. However some of those 'idiots' simply doesn't want to learn and try to debate the 'sane' ones. No wonder Indonesian online's users being consider the rudest and sadly also ignorance. I wept with the quality of our education.

That's why I don't want to get involved with Indonesian forums. Just don't have patience to debate or "educate" those online Idiots. For crying out loud, they simply only have to Google..how hard it be ?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Yes, and when you see those Indonesian forumers comment, then you will realize too many 'idiots' in Indonesia online community that like to shout before read carefully.

TNI-AU already informed publicly that the Oil Rig is locate in Natuna's EEZ and not Natuna's territorial waters. As usual many of those online 'idiots' already talking hotly on US encroachment on territorial waters. They can use internet but not bothering just to Google the difference between EEZ and territorial waters

There're also 'sane' forumers that try too inform them the difference between Territorial Waters and EEZ. However some of those 'idiots' simply doesn't want to learn and try to debate the 'sane' ones. No wonder Indonesian online's users being consider the rudest and sadly also ignorance. I wept with the quality of our education.

That's why I don't want to get involved with Indonesian forums. Just don't have patience to debate or "educate" those online Idiots. For crying out loud, they simply only have to Google..how hard it be ?

Yes, trying to correct them is a waste of your time.
I believe it is more about mentality and the willingness to learn than the quality of our eduction.

Brainless morons and infantile fanboys are all over the world, but you can not expect too much from people who only live from consuming instant noodles, cigarettes, Indosiar and youtube fanboyvideos. :-D

 

[Ananda]

believe it is more about mentality and the willingness to learn than the quality of our eduction.

Our education (at least in General) still shown influence from Dutch Colonial method, which drive more on accepting knowledge but less critical thinking. This can result more acceptance on certain information that only suit their believe but not more critical deduction. That's reflected on many Indonesian in online media arguments and thinking.

Anyway

https://www.tnial.mil.id/berita/22661/DUA-KAPAL-PERANG-TNI-AL-BERHASIL-MENEMBAKAN-RUDAL-C-705-DAN-MENGENAI-TARGET/

From TNI-AL official site, two KCR 40 manage to fire C-705 SSM Missiles. Now from beginning this smallest Fast Missiles boats in TNI-AL present lines are being prepared for using C-705. However I do got impression that TNI-AL not really happy with the Missile and infact MinDef has program to basically 'copy' C-705 using off the shelf tech.

Seems they do maintain some inventory of that SSM. So far according to them it perform well, thus perhaps they already make adjustments on the system from previous failed test.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I just wonder how the video of the sinking ship is recorded, with the NC212MPA or the CN235-220MPA?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=273562861066512

Video: Indonesian Navy KCR-40-class missile craft in Sinking Exercise - Naval News

The Indonesian Navy (TNI AL) KCR-40-class fast attack craft missile (FACM), KRI Clurit (641) and KRI Kujang (642) took part in a sinking exercice (SINKEX). Two chinese-made C-705 anti-ship missiles were fired and sank former oiler KRI Balikpapan (901) at Natuna Waters.

www.navalnews.com

Seems that the KRI Balikpapan 901 is retired in November 2019.
More info of the history of the ship: KRI Balikpapan 901: Kapal Tanker Tua Peninggalan Perang Dingin

 

[Ananda]

just wonder how the video of the sinking ship is recorded, with the NC212MPA or the CN235-220MPA?

Could be either one, both equiped with FLIR. Anyway looking on that missile, DI and other SOE consortium that task to reverse engineered C705, are bit silence lately on their progress. There's some news on the mock up being tested in wind tunnels, but there's not more on that.

It's been shadow with other programs like N-219, MALE UAV even N250. Just attach the mock up pictures again. I'm more interested on what their progress with solid fuel and targeting system. This's from what I heard is the main obstacle.
Those two item should be the responsibility of Dahana (as propelant producer) and LEN (as Electronics Producer). It will be interesting to see how their progress.

 

[OPSSG]

@Ananda, in those types of forums, the level of general knowledge is low but the ability to argue brainlessly is high. In my case, I have been corrected often in DT and it’s the corrections that help me learn.

Yes, and when you see those Indonesian forumers comment, then you will realize too many 'idiots' in Indonesia online community that like to shout before read carefully.

The less people know about force generation to support a CONOPS, the more they argue about things in a this versus that platform manner, when all navies and air forces operate as a system. Network centric warfare is actually, systems of systems engineering to create desired outcomes for a naval task group.

Fortunately, in DT we can discuss advanced topics like future force designs in: Appropriate reaction to the stationing of the Type 022 missile vessel in the South China Sea — Part 2

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A certain person on Twitter posted

"The Indonesian made OPV will adopted Havelsan made electronics equipment. But Thales still involve on the program. Turkish get more footprint in Indonesia today than pre 2020. Weapon systems for this 90 m length OPV will use a foreign loan allocation. As usual, it's FFBNW OPV."

Since when is an OPV ordered?
Are there indeed some serious indications that an OPV is/will be ordered, or is this again an oracle on drugs?

 

[ngatimozart]

A certain person on Twitter posted

"The Indonesian made OPV will adopted Havelsan made electronics equipment. But Thales still involve on the program. Turkish get more footprint in Indonesia today than pre 2020. Weapon systems for this 90 m length OPV will use a foreign loan allocation. As usual, it's FFBNW OPV."

Since when is an OPV ordered?
Are there indeed some serious indications that an OPV is/will be ordered, or is this again an oracle on drugs?

The whacky baccy you reckon, or the magic mushrooms?

I see that you were shaken but not stirred yesterday. Hope that you and your family were not harmed. Earthquake can be a bit rattling and hard on the nerves. They never used to worry me until after the Christchurch sequence and the ongoing aftershocks we had. After 15,000 of them the nerves of most of us had well and truly had enough.

 

[Ananda]

Earthquake can be a bit rattling and hard on the nerves. They never used to worry me until after the Christchurch sequence and the ongoing aftershocks we had. After 15,000 of them the nerves of most of us had well and truly had enough.

Yesterday earthquake happen in South Coast of East Java. No Tsunami warning release, however some casualty on that district. Latest report put 8 fatal and over 35 according local media. The English Jakarta Globe so far put 6. The Local media seems got latest update. For me personally I don't fell it, since I reside in Jakarta. However I got the report on the earthquake on my office emergency line, due my Banks got some branches in the area.

Eight Killed in East Java Earthquake

The main shock occurred at 02:00 p.m. local time on Saturday, with an epicenter detected at 82 kilometers southwest off the coast of Malang

jakartaglobe.id

Since when is an OPV ordered?
Are there indeed some serious indications that an OPV is/will be ordered, or is this again an oracle on drugs?

This I believe related to Last Year January documents that put in media of TNI-AL ask local Shipyards to submit proposal for OPV 90 design. Since it will be supplied by local shipyard without International Partner, then it will be using domestic financing (either domestic credit or directly using state budget). However the Armaments as mostly will be supplied by foreign vendors, off course it will be using foreign financing line.

I believe we already have that link in this thread sometimes ago. I presume since this's local supply just like many patrol boats order, they're not making fuss on the media (until it's launch). So I don't know yet also whether there's going to be a contract soon as his claim. However from what I heard (since this going to used domestic financing) the local shipyards already talking to us (in Banks) of more order from TNI-AL soon. Which one's going to go to SOE yards and which going to Private yards is not clear yet.

 

[ngatimozart]

@Ananda Thanks. I am subscribed to the UNESCO tsunami warning list so I received the alert email for that quake. I didn't understand why a possible tsunami alert message was generated because it was well below the threshold for tsunami generation. A 6.9 magnitude quake on the Richter scale will possibly generate a local tsunami, but it has to be a shallow quake of 10 km or less. However there is evidence of rare quakes of 6.7 magnitude on the Richter scale causing a small local tsunami of sub metre height.

 

[Ananda]

didn't understand why a possible tsunami alert message was generated because it was well below the threshold for tsunami generation. A 6.9 magnitude quake on the Richter scale will possibly generate a local tsunami, but it has to be a shallow quake of 10 km or less.

I suspect because the quake being recorded on that particular area (in the circle). Indonesian Seismology Agency also doesn't want to take risk. This's a problem with quake I think, few years back there's vulcanic activity on Small Krakatoa in Sunda Straits that resulted with Tsunami. That area at that time was not (as my understanding) being classified for Tsunami risk (no Tsunami buoy being put there).


PT. PAL recently just shown to media their Tsunami Buoy that going to be allocated to certain points in Indonesia Thrust area. Even with now being supply domestically, it will be sometimes to put it in all thrust locations. This buoys going to replace foreign supply buoys that according to the report many already shown much deteriorating capabilities. After all it's being put close to two decades ago after Aceh Mega Tsunami.

PT PAL Indonesia (Persero) Berhasil Luncurkan Indonesia Tsunami Early Warning System (Ina-TEWS)

Selasa, 09 Februari 2021 – Kepala BPPT RI Dr. Ir. Hammam Riza, M.Sc meninjau langsung proses Wet Test Indonesia Tsunami Early Warning System (Ina-TEWS) di […]

pal.co.id