Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

This "Bakamla 11015" design with 4600 nm range (but with just 18 kts way too slow), is actually a very nice design, inspired by the SIGMA 9113.

That's OPV, they are build more on patrol endurance. Those Bakamla OPV that I read on builder trials claim can get to 20+ knots, but I do agree with 18 knots probably the most they will be operating with.

As for weapons, OPV will mostly have basic weapons, thus I'm not even surprise if some weapons from Parchim still can end up in those OPV's.
They will costs more than those Bakamla OPV's I believe, as they will build with more Naval standard. In my opinion it's better those OPV's got second hand armament from retired vessels, but have good solid sensors and electronics.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

At last, the Oerlikon Millennium 35 mm CIWS is installed on the KRI R.E. Martadinata 331 AND operationable.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1368062633360550

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

At last, our government takes some action to protect our EEZ in the Laut Natuna. In such situations you have to keep your head cool, but also show other countries that you are serious and willing to take action to protect whats ours.

 

[tonnyc]

The newspaper Jawa Pos reports that the submarine KRI Alugoro-405 is undergoing sea trials in the Bali Strait. The submarine is expected to be ready for commissioning in July. Alugoro is the third of the DSME-1400 class submarine (a.k.a. Chang Bogo-class submarines) but is the first one to be built locally. The first two were built in South Korea and are in active service.

(The news article is in Indonesian. Jawa Pos is a major newspaper and is credible. It'll probably be a while before international news sources reports on this, but in the meanwhile Google Translate should get you the gist of the article. There's nothing there that's new anyway except the expected commissioning date.)

 

[Ananda]

also show other countries that you are serious and willing to take action to protect whats ours

I think they have to rethink what surface assets should be build in future. Too many 40m patrol boats and 60m fast missile boats are not really cut out. The Navy should only handle OPV, Corvettes and Frigates.

They are already stated all maritime agency will be converge into one Coast Guard. That's what supposed happen long time ago. Give coast guard some OPV and relegated below 50m patrol Boats to Coast Guard. What happened in Natuna Sea also shown better coordination in the sea is very important..and not just number of assets.

 

[ngatimozart]

I think they have to rethink what surface assets should be build in future. Too many 40m patrol boats and 60m fast missile boats are not really cut out. The Navy should only handle OPV, Corvettes and Frigates.

They are already stated all maritime agency will be converge into one Coast Guard. That's what supposed happen long time ago. Give coast guard some OPV and relegated below 50m patrol Boats to Coast Guard. What happened in Natuna Sea also shown better coordination in the sea is very important..and not just number of assets.

Hmm, I disagree especially about the fast missile boats. Indonesia's geography is its strongest naval defence asset because it is a multitude of islands - an archipelago, in fact a grouping of archipelagos that if defended properly make it difficult for an enemy naval force to overwhelm. Fixed air, naval bases and shore defence installations can easily be taken out, but fast well armed patrol and missile boats operating as mobile units are a totally different story. Use your UAV ISR assets the same way especially in peacetime and fly your fighters regularly over all of your EEZ just to remind foreign boats that you are around and watching.

 

[Ananda]

I disagree especially about the fast missile boats. Indonesia's geography is its strongest naval defence asset because it is a multitude of islands - an archipelago, in fact a grouping of archipelagos that if defended properly make it difficult for an enemy naval force to overw

If we have enough budgets to have all type of boats, then I agree on 'large' force of FMB. However KCR 60 eventough in paper are good thing to have, questions with the need of larger boats also showing increasing prevelance, in which can TNI-AL have both ways ?

Bulk of TNI-AL assets are Parchim. Those seems plan to be replaced by OPV. While KCR 60 FMB eventough can do patrol, but they are more optimised for hit and run tactics and hide within archipelago.
Question is can TNI-AL afford to maintain that many boats which build for hit and run or larger boats optimised for patrol.

Hull is relatively cheap, thus why not bring larger boats in the class of OPV or Corvettes. It still can be installed SSM, while maintaining larger range of patrol.

 

[Todjaeger]

Hull is relatively cheap, thus why not bring larger boats in the class of OPV or Corvettes. It still can be installed SSM, while maintaining larger range of patrol.

A large vessel of OPV/corvette size could indeed have a potentially longer patrol range, and/or more sea days. However, a substantially larger vessel would likely have both a greater beam and draught, which could limit some of the areas where the vessel could operate in an archipelago. This would also be a potential factor in combat operations if hostile vessels where entering or attempting to transit through SLOC between the islands.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

With so much territorial waters and ZEE, TNI-AL also needs the KCR-60 and -40 classes.
(Smaller than that is not very useful.)

But indeed, for longer periods, further away from the coast, and specially during rough weather, the Parchim class needs to be replaced by something with at least the same size: 75 meters+.
It shouldnt be that astronomical expensive to enlarge slightly the design, with four SSM launchers, CIWS and simple radar like an MW-08 to create some kind of KCR-75.

 

[ChestnutTree]

Either that or just go for an evolved Diponogoro class corvette or a SIGMA 9813 design. I'm sure Damen and PAL can come to a mutual agreement if you're going to order several batches of ships to eventually replace the Parchims.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Either that or just go for an evolved Diponogoro class corvette or a SIGMA 9813 design. I'm sure Damen and PAL can come to a mutual agreement if you're going to order several batches of ships to eventually replace the Parchims.

Looking to the amount of the Parchim Class/Kapitan Patimura shjps which need to be replaced eventually, 16, the new ships can not to be too large or high-tech/advanced.
So 16 SIGMA 9113 or 9813 will be too expensive.
The good news is that Koninklijke Schelde also has smaller designs, like the SIGMA 7513. If PAL and Damen can reach an agreement about ToT and workshare, then we can keep the costs relatively low if most of the compnents are made and assembled in Indonesia.
Sigma-class Corvette ship 7513 of proven design

 

[Ananda]

The Parchim replacement, I still see it will be PT. PAL 'owned' OPV design that being put on previous page. PAL already have design for FMB in term of KCR and tgen this OPV. They will used their owned design, cause it will be less expensive.

Whatever foreign design they will used, it will be for expensive projects like Frigates. Thus it will be limited in number. My previous post on KCR more on PAL need to enlarge the design from 60m. PAL seems also got request from TNI-AL to increase the KCR from 60m to 75m based on statement from TNI-AL.

TNI-AL will still build KCR and OPV, but that's what I suggest that they stop building this 40 m and 60 m design. KCR 75M and OPV 90M should be the 'main' fleet of TNI-AL in the future. It will not cost that much to increase the design of KCR from 60m to 75m, but will increased reliability of KCR sea state while still maintain basic KCR/FMB agilities as the chocke points defense.

The question now is what SSM they will used. With this increasing tension with China, there are increasimg public pressure to change Chinese Investment to Japanese ones (since Japan already shown their willingness to continue increase their Investment in Indonesia). Thus using Chinese C705 SSM seems will get stronger opposition. MinDef already shown their plan to used C705 as template for local SSM projects. Will see how this is going to progress.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

It sounds cool what he all says, and according some 'reports' the chinese vessels all left our EEZ after jokowi visited Natuna, but there are also reports that the KN Tanjung Datu 301 (former pennant nr 1101) retired/run away and leaved chinese vessels in our ZEE.
Video: Jokowi visits Natuna amid China standoff - The Jakarta Post

So much is unclear yet.

 

[Ahmad]

PT PAL has already design 3 different class of OPV so I think PT PAL is very much in upper hand in this (2) OPV tender. And if PT PAL also get the contract to build 2 Philippine LPD then PT PAL production facility is likely to be full for the next 2-3 years since PT PAL current production facility is already handling 2 KCR 60 meter and maybe some civilian ship. 3 additional Changbogo submarine contract is also likely to sign amid tension in South China Sea with Chinese ships and thus give some work in PAL submarine building facility for the next 5-6 years.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A nice design for a corvette, and yes, 'inspired' by the SIGMA 10514 design. But i have my doubt about the capabilities and expertise of DRU, to install and test all the sensors, weapon systems and command and control systems,they are not on the same level as PAL. Hopefully these ships will not become a toothless fitted-for-but-not-with class of patrol boats.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

We will see how this ends up.
Luhut dan Prabowo Kompak Impor Kapal Perang dari Denmark

Maybe it will become something like the Su-35, Nasams and A400M: lots of plans, wishes and daydreaming, but until now after many years still zero result.


"Itu memang kapal yang ocean going yang 138 meter yang bisa 150 meter. Jadi dia bisa berlayar fregat ini di laut bebas. Kita itu selama 72 tahun merdeka belum punya ocean going," kata Luhut di Jakarta, Jumat (17/1)"

Im sometimes shocked how uncapable people with such a limited knowledge of the Indonesian Navy can get such an important position.

 

[ngatimozart]

We will see how this ends up.
Luhut dan Prabowo Kompak Impor Kapal Perang dari Denmark

Maybe it will become something like the Su-35, Nasams and A400M: lots of plans, wishes and daydreaming, but until now after many years still zero result.


"Itu memang kapal yang ocean going yang 138 meter yang bisa 150 meter. Jadi dia bisa berlayar fregat ini di laut bebas. Kita itu selama 72 tahun merdeka belum punya ocean going," kata Luhut di Jakarta, Jumat (17/1)"

Im sometimes shocked how uncapable people with such a limited knowledge of the Indonesian Navy can get such an important position.

So they are looking at the Iver Huitfeld class again? Indonesia is not the only country that places people in positions that far exceeds their capabilities. I think most, if not all, governments have an unrelenting habit of doing that.

 

[ChestnutTree]

It is an open secret that Luhut Panjaitan pretty much has his position tailored to what he wants, how else would he have a role for coordinating maritime affairs AND foreign investment.

Regardless, I am quite disappointed by this. I was hoping they'd go for replacing the Parchims first and then focus on getting bigger assets. And honestly I held my hopes that they'd go for a more sensible route and acquire an evolved SIGMA design for commonality. Regardless, we will see in the coming years how this will turn out.

 

[Ananda]

So they are looking at the Iver Huitfeld class again?

Iver is still in the running for Frigate contenders since it's the most cost effective and because the Danes offered full fabrication in PAL Surabaya yard.
French has been offering Belhara and FREEM and Dutch offer their new Omega design..but if they (Mindef) really come to fruition in Frigates, I still see Iver as the leading candidate.

 

[John Fedup]

At last, the Oerlikon Millennium 35 mm CIWS is installed on the KRI R.E. Martadinata 331 AND operationable.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1368062633360550

Awesome weapon which I wish the RCN would consider.