United States Marine Corps

CB90

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The U.S. Navy has ordered its first six heavy-lift CH-53K helicopters, a move which brings much greater cargo, supply and troop-carrying capacity to amphibious warfare.
The CH-53K is powered by 3 GE Aviation T408 engines. Capable of producing more than 7,500 shaft horsepower, the T408 is built to deliver numerous mission-critical advantages.
Interesting.

There are only 3 MH-53E squadrons in the USN, and they are not, at least officially, planned to be replaced by the K.
Wonder if this is acceptance of a need to replace the clapped out -53E's with a new tow platform for the AMCM gear/mission.

It's certainly going to be a nice to have even so, but the USN doesn't have an outstanding requirement for heavy rotary lift for logistics, so that's not going to be the main reason...
 

ngatimozart

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Interesting.

There are only 3 MH-53E squadrons in the USN, and they are not, at least officially, planned to be replaced by the K.
Wonder if this is acceptance of a need to replace the clapped out -53E's with a new tow platform for the AMCM gear/mission.

It's certainly going to be a nice to have even so, but the USN doesn't have an outstanding requirement for heavy rotary lift for logistics, so that's not going to be the main reason...
I was given to understand that the CH-53K was replacing all existing USMC MH-53. AFAIK that has always been the plan. They certainly wouldn't embark on a very expensive program for just a few aircraft.
 

OPSSG

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Staff member
I was given to understand that the CH-53K was replacing all existing USMC MH-53. AFAIK that has always been the plan. They certainly wouldn't embark on a very expensive program for just a few aircraft.
For clarity to others, CB90 is taking about USN’s MH-53E Sea Dragons used for airborne mine countermeasures (MCM). These giants are used to tow several types of mine hunting or mine sweeping gear through the water.

Senators wants the USN to consider buying the CH-53K as a mine-hunting replacement for legacy MH-53Es according to the U.S. Senate’s version of the 2019 National Defense Authorization Act.

But that is not the USN’s plan. Admiral Paul A. Grosklags in March 2018 testified before a Senate panel on military aviation that ‘‘the MH-53E will continue to perform its primary mission of airborne mine countermeasures as well as transport of cargo and personnel until it is replaced by the LCS.’’

If the USN’s plan is approved, eventually only Japan will operate airborne mine countermeasures (MCM) helicopters. The JMSF will use the MCH-101 helicopter for the airborne minesweeping role. The licence-produced version of the AW101 is built by Kawasaki at its Gifu factory in Japan. The airborne mine countermeasures variant is equipped with Northrop Grumman’s AQS-24A airborne mine-hunting and AES-1 laser mine detection systems.
 
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OPSSG

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Staff member
Potential plans to equip US Marines with torpedoes (maybe fired from HIMARS?).

US Marine Corps Maj. Gen. Tracy King, the US Navy’s director of expeditionary warfare on the chief of naval operations’ staff, had discussed Marine EABs conducting anti-sub operations, much as they plan to conduct anti-ship operations in support of sea control and sea denial for the US Navy. He said over the summer that American SSN submarines give away their position when they shoot torpedoes. If the US Marines who have landed on islands within the 1st and 2nd island chains, under the expeditionary advanced base operations concept, could go after those targets instead, US SSNs could go on lurking undetected.

“We’re going to have US Marines out there sinking ships. I’ve even talked to our undersea guys about US Marines out there sinking submarines, so some of our inside forces can stay hidden. Let our adversary worry about me and my hundred guys running around crazy on some island instead of these capital assets that are really the heart and soul of the joint force,” he said, referring to American attack submarines.
 
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ngatimozart

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The USMC has proven a new expeditionary capability for the F-35C. It has proven is short field capabilities in austere field conditions using M-31 mobile arresting gear, on AM-2 aluminium-matted surface. Two USMC F-35-C were used for the evolution, landing using 3,000 feet of runway. A KC-130J was used for on ground refuelling and each F-35C was both hot refuelled and loaded with two inert GBU-32s each, in less than 10 minutes. The aircraft then took off in less than 3,000 ft heading to a bombing range near Yuma, Arizona, to drop the ordinance before returning to their home base. This will have an impact upon their F-35B acquisition numbers because of the C's extra range and loadout, but they still require the B, but maybe in not as many numbers.

This is quite an interesting development and certainly offers another string to the bow. I don't know how long it takes to set up the airfield but it certainly makes it harder for an opponent to knock out in a hurry or at the start of a conflict or campaign.

 

10puii3a

New Member
The USMC has taken 13 F-35Bs to sea aboard the USS America (LHA 6) to test their Lightning carrier concept. They use the San Antonio Class LPDs marine equipment online for C4 integration with the F-35s because their capability is far greater than America's class LHA or the Wasp-class LHD C2 capability.

@10puii3a Do you have a source for this? We have a rule that requires sources to be posted. Please post the source.

Ngatimozart.
 
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Terran

Well-Known Member
Okay let’s lay this out first the USMC has today four primary armored vehicle families in its inventory after the retirement of the Abrams. LAV25, ACV, JLTV and AAV7A1.
now AAV7A1 is slated to retire in favor of ACV. LAV25 is the next trouble spot. Generally I think most of the variants of LAV25 can be replaced by ACV but the recon vehicle role favors lighter weight so it can be transported by KC130.
This gets more interesting IMO as this might not just end up in Marine colors the 82nd Airborne of the Army also uses LAV25 and if this gets paradrop rated it could overlap again.
 

FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member
Okay let’s lay this out first the USMC has today four primary armored vehicle families in its inventory after the retirement of the Abrams. LAV25, ACV, JLTV and AAV7A1.
now AAV7A1 is slated to retire in favor of ACV. LAV25 is the next trouble spot. Generally I think most of the variants of LAV25 can be replaced by ACV but the recon vehicle role favors lighter weight so it can be transported by KC130.
This gets more interesting IMO as this might not just end up in Marine colors the 82nd Airborne of the Army also uses LAV25 and if this gets paradrop rated it could overlap again.
The 82nd did not use their one company of LAV25s as reconnaissance vehicles. They were surrogates for the future MPF vehicle. That's why the single company was designated an Armor unit and not Cavalry. A/4/68th AR was deactivated in Sep 2020

LAV25s were tested in the reconnaissance role in the late '80s for the recon elements of the 82nds Armor battalion, 3/73rd AR
 
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FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member
Textron and GDLS selected to develop prototypes for USMC Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle (LAV-25 replacement), BAE will continue study of ACV as potential off the shelf option for ARV roles.
Marine Corps Selects Textron, GDLS for Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle Prototypes

Haven't seen anything on the GDLS offering, but Textron has released some "glossy" type info on their "Cottonmouth" vehicle and a snappy YouTube video. While no vehicle stats seem to be available the RWS with Javelin missile mounted give a bit of scale. Certainly not as big as an ACV.
 

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member

I wasn't aware that the Naval Strike Missile had been picked for NMESIS. If it has then I think that's a savvy choice. It's modern and relatively lightweight - much more than LRASM and I think even Harpoon.
 

FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member

I wasn't aware that the Naval Strike Missile had been picked for NMESIS. If it has then I think that's a savvy choice. It's modern and relatively lightweight - much more than LRASM and I think even Harpoon.
The JLTV/NSM Remotely Operated Ground Unit for Expeditionary Fires (ROGUE-Fires) pairing has been a reported part of NMESIS for at least a year and a half. The procurement of ground launched Tomahawk missiles by the USMC is also planned under the NMESIS umbrella.
 

ngatimozart

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I wasn't aware that the Naval Strike Missile had been picked for NMESIS. If it has then I think that's a savvy choice. It's modern and relatively lightweight - much more than LRASM and I think even Harpoon.
The LRASM and NSM are different horses for different courses. The LRASM has a heavy warhead, 1000lb from memory, so is quite weighty. The NSM has a smaller warhead, is lighter, easier to move, and you can mount more of them on a vehicle.
 

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
The JLTV/NSM Remotely Operated Ground Unit for Expeditionary Fires (ROGUE-Fires) pairing has been a reported part of NMESIS for at least a year and a half.
I had a quick flick through this topic but couldn't see discussion of it.

The procurement of ground launched Tomahawk missiles by the USMC is also planned under the NMESIS umbrella.
Sure, I didn't mean to imply that NSM was the only part of it. But although it's more useful to have Tomahawk as well, I think of the two NSM is more valuable missile given it should be easier to be moved around.
 

FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member
...
Sure, I didn't mean to imply that NSM was the only part of it. But although it's more useful to have Tomahawk as well, I think of the two NSM is more valuable missile given it should be easier to be moved around.
Oh, completely agree. Even more so because mounting NSM launch systems on a ground vehicle platform is a know quantity. The development/learning curve is low risk. While the GBASM Tomahawk using a Mk41 VLS based system is still in relative infancy

The LRASM and NSM are different horses for different courses. The LRASM has a heavy warhead, 1000lb from memory, so is quite weighty. The NSM has a smaller warhead, is lighter, easier to move, and you can mount more of them on a vehicle.
Yes, a single LRASM w/required booster in a launch container (which does not exist) would likely end up weighing as much as two NSM units (which actually exist). Not to mention in US defense procurement reality a cannister launched LRASM does not exist. It is not even a government developmental/procurement program at this time. The only systems identified for future fielding as non-air launched anti-ship missiles are NSM, Maritime Strike Tomahawk (Block Va) and SM-6. LRASM is only earmarked for deployment under Offensive Anti-Surface Warfare (OASuW)/Increment 1 and will compete for selection under OASuW/Increment 2. Both of which are only air launched capabilities.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 1 of 2: Status of Force Design 2030 one year after roll-out

1. The US Marines reported at the 18 month mark (Apr 2021 report) into their 10 year Force Design 2030 modernization effort — in some capability areas they have sufficient understanding to begin the transition from force design to force development. This is why we must give credit to the US Marines for their threat-informed, concept-based look at requirements.

2. In a recent update, it seems the US Marines will now operate 118 Vipers and 90 Venoms or less in Force Design 2030. They are also giving up their MBTs but they are gaining the ability to deploy A2AD forces within the 1st island chain; where the US Marine Corps is still focused on four main areas: logistics and sustainment; long-range precision fires; alternate positioning, navigation, and timing (PNT); and command, control, communications, computers, cyber, intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance and targeting (C5ISRT).

(a) The directorate has hosted integrated product teams to look specifically at C5ISRT and counter-C5ISRT in all domains, at unmanned capabilities, and mobility.​

(b) Another upcoming IPT will look at sensing in the air, land and ocean surface, and those will all combine to help inform if there is a need for an Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle (ARV). A competitive prototyping effort is also ongoing to help work through some of the requirements.​
(c) Interestingly, they have invalidated the requirement to replace existing LAV-25s with a similar armored, wheeled or tracked manned vehicle in a one- for-one ratio.​

3. America may have incompetent politicians but do not mistake that for military competence. Many fanboys are more interested in the sharp end, when most informed members here, ask about logistics and sustainment. The US Marines focus on logistics for its Expeditionary Advanced Base Operations, is exemplified by the development of the CH-53K. In addition, for the U.S. Marines’ ACE, as part of Force Design 2030, they have:
  • Continued to analyze VMFA capacity requirements as well as the appropriate F-35 B/C mix of aircraft.
  • Initiated the divestment of all RQ-21 aircraft, and the introduction of additional capabilities for experimentation to include the MQ-9A and VBat UAS.
  • Initiated the expansion of VMU capacity by three new MALE squadrons. Programmed resources and developed an acquisition strategy necessary to realize the Marine Unmanned Expeditionary/Medium Altitude Long Endurance capability in FY23.
  • Continued the adjustment of the capacity for Aerial Refueler Transport (VMGR) squadrons.
  • Initiated the divestment of two VMM squadrons in 2020, and began the planning necessary to initiate the divestment of a third VMM squadron no later than 2021.
  • Initiated the divestment of two HMLA squadrons.
  • Initiated the divestment of 2.75 HMH squadrons.
  • Continued to examine options for all Reserve Component aviation requirements.
  • Initiated a review of Fleet Replacement Squadron laydown.
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Part 2 of 2: Status of Force Design 2030 one year after roll-out

4. US Marine Corps Commandant Gen. David Berger’s decided to implement the CONOPS on Expeditionary Advanced Base Operations (EABO). This EABO concept employs expeditionary systems — emphasizing anti-ship cruise missile launchers — from austere, distributed land bases within adversary weapons engagement zones to contribute sea denial operations. In addition for the U.S. Marines’ Ground Combat Element, as part of Force Design 2030, they have:
  • Continued planning for the establishment of three standing Marine Littoral Regiments (MLRs) in III MEF, consisting of an O-6 headquarters, a Littoral Combat Team (LCT), a tailored Combat Logistics Battalion, and a Littoral Anti-Air Battalion.
  • Prepared for Infantry Battalion Experiment 2030, which will experiment with one battalion each from 1st, 2nd, and 3d Marine Divisions over the next two years.
  • Validated the requirement for Organic Precision Fires – Infantry (OPF-I) to include loitering munitions within our reorganized infantry battalions and LCTs.
  • Initiated an enhanced infantry training program to produce more proficient, resilient, and lethal Marine infantry.
  • Prepared to divest of 3 AC and 2 RC infantry battalions.
  • Completed the divestment of 2 AC and 1 RC tank battalions.
  • Continued the planned transition of 14 towed cannon batteries into self-propelled rocket artillery and anti-ship missile batteries.
    • Initiated the divestment of two Assault Amphibian (AA) companies.
  • Initiated fielding of the Amphibious Combat Vehicle (ACV).
  • Identified the likely utility of multi-domain Mobile Reconnaissance units possessing OPF-I, light-weight vehicles, unmanned air and surface systems, boats, and other capabilities necessary to succeed in a contested information environment.
5. The Biden Administration’s Interim National Security Strategic Guidance, in step with SefDec Austin’s recent Letter to the Force continues to identify strategic competition with China as a top priority. To be threat-informed, in the era of great power competition is to understand that not all military capability is conventional.

6. The US Marines have also found a way through MARSOC to adapt to change, in the Indo-Pacific — to converge unconventional warfare with conventional military capability resident in an MEU or MEB for overmatch so that there is no need to even fight in an contested environment (i.e. deter the ‘little green men’ of the enemy), to set up an EABO.

(a) MARSOC was created by fusing the 1st and 2nd Force Reconnaissance Companies with the Marine Special Operations Advisor Group (MSOAG); and MSOAG was originally named the Foreign Military Training Unit (FMTU). The Marine Raider Regiment consists of HQ Company and 3 Marine Raider Battalions (1st, 2d and 3d).​

(b) Foreign Internal Defense (FID) operations, security assistance and counter terrorism are critical components of the U.S. National Security Strategy and National Strategy for Counter Terrorism. Thanks to FMTU roots, MARSOC’s flagship core competency is FID, which gives 3 key advantages:​
(i) Access.​
(ii) Placement.​
(iii) Influence.​
One way to see it is to say it is THE ability to influence another country because of US access and placement. Another way to put it, is to inject a MARSOC team of guys with guns into a given situation.​

(c) But there is more. Their Force Recon background enable the each of these Marine Raider Battalion to conduct direct action, such as, seizing or securing access to a port or air field, when their capabilities need to be aggregated or even operate as part of a coalition. In the 2021 iteration of the Green Dagger exercise (as a lead-in to a larger training event known as Marine Air Ground Task Force Warfighting Exercise 1-22), MARSOC, trained with Royal Marines and the UAE's Presidential Guard to take on another US Marine unit. The invite and active participation of allies like the Royal Commandos, reinforces the strength of NATO relationships and validates the long-held understanding that when the U.S. goes into a fight it does not go alone.

(d) MARSOC can operate disaggregated and has deployed 14-man teams to the Indo-Pacific region on a rotational basis for years, part of a broader effort to support the Filipino military’s struggle with international crime and terrorism. It is highly unlikely T.E. Lawrence (the father of unconventional warfare) would even be admitted to MARSOC selection (3 weeks per phase in 2 phases), let alone pass the current initial training course (9 months long), as it would be too tough. But before a MARSOC company deploys, they undergo Exercise Raven.

7. Not many people within the US Defense Department can deploy to remote parts of the world in small teams and engage with indigenous forces across language and culture barriers. Subsequently, the need for more FID experts was an impetus for the creation of MARSOC.
(a) The Marine Raider Battalions have a key role to play in the 1st and 2nd island chain, where their foreign language skills and ability to blend in help secure the relationship with local forces. A Marine Raider Battalion is intended to be paired with and supported by the III Marine Expeditionary Force during combat operations to increase cost effectiveness, and to provide special reconnaissance — on China’s string of pearls. If the gloves come off, Chinese agents in numerous countries suddenly become fair game.​
(b) There are MARSCO operators with a good understanding of both the Chinese language and its culture. They want native language speakers, that understand the nuances of specific parts to a language but also the culture.​
(c) The Marine Raider Battalions also have support staff that are assisting in military AI development and in information support operations, in local languages; and it is important to make sure they understand the environment they are working in.​

(i) The best thing about MARSOC is that no one outside of SOCOM knows what they do and it should be kept that way. Keeping in mind that they are under SOCOM and their reach is global.​
(ii) In July 2021, it was reported that more than 300 SOCOM representatives, including members of senior leadership as well as other, lower-ranked officers and civilians, was sent for a 6 week course to understand broad future trends in AI development, and commercial deployment.​
(iii) The discussion included how operators might use tools like computer vision in the near future, “not just to detect vehicles here or there, but try to make sense of the imagery in a conceptual way,” Sertac Karaman, a professor in the Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics at MIT said. Other portions of the course were devoted to AI safety and how to pursue new capabilities while adhering to the Pentagon’s AI ethical principles. SOCOM head Gen. Richard Clarke told lawmakers that one of the key features of the course from a SOCOM perspective was to help senior and mid-tier SOCOM personnel “learn what the AI principles were so that they could ask the right questions.”​
 
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sark

Member
The problems I have with CMC Berger's redesign of the Corps is that it leaves the amphibious assault behind and tailors the force too much against China.

The amphibious assault is already facing great problems I could go into, hey I'm writing an article on it ;). And so far I don't see enough solutions coming out of the USMC for landing Marines against an opposing force.

The enemy gets a vote, and the USMC should not expect any single potential enemy to go to war with the US and its allies. The Marine Corps must be able to win in a variety of wars against a variety of actors. Actors that will contest all domains and use increasingly potent anti-access/area denial weaponry. Actors that have access to lots of armor and artillery. This means the amphibious assault must be able to win in a variety of battles, that will include a variety of tactical situations against a variety of potential enemy militaries.

From small islands in the Western Pacific, to the shores of Eastern or Northern Europe, to the Korean Peninsula, to Taiwan, to the Persian Gulf, and the shores of Africa. There are a lot of different scenarios for the application of landpower from the sea.
..when I was in, the MAU/MEU packed a heavy punch for a ''small'' unit ----with a variety of landing options: powered rubber boats/AAVs/choppers/etc ......we had TOWS/ANGLICO/Cobras/.....there were usually MAUs in the WestPac and one in the Med/etc---so not only was it powerful, etc, it was on call to go anywhere [ to a degree ] ...and as you state, MAUs/MEUs can do a variety of missions
...we were off Lebanon for about 30 days in 87' with Delta Force aboard...our MAU was termed MAU/MEU [ SOC ]
......it was the USMC that saved Scott O'Grady
etc
 
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