John Fedup
The Bunker Group
It is such a strange decision they likely can’t believe it yet!
United States Marine Corps
- Thread starter vonnoobie
- Start date
FormerDirtDart
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure it was reported on over a year ago when the USMC released the Commandant's guidance on the whole 2030 plan. This recent article is just an op-ed, and not actually reporting on any new information
FormerDirtDart
Well-Known Member
The USN does not operate any of the systems mentioned. The MV-22s the USN are starting to field are I believe modified to extend their range to support the carrier supply mission, so the USMC's versions are not currently able to meet those requirements. The only CH-53s operated by the USN are the Sea Dragon mine warfare versions. While it would seem as a "no brainer" to snatch up some -53Ks to replace the older than dirt archaic maintenance whore Sea Dragons the -53K has not been certified to conduct those operations.
IMO the most logical future for all these divested assets would be retention in the bone yards potential replacements/part sources for future operational losses.
It's likely that a few USN pilots have been trained to fly "B" models, in a test pilot capacity or possibly cross service posting, but nowhere near operational fielding numbers.
And the USMC has a requirement to field fighter squadrons for USN carrier wing duties. Thus the "C" models.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Navy Approves CH-53K Heavy-Lift Helicopter for Full-Rate Production - USNI News
In the case of the CH-53K at least, the numbers of aircraft divested are coming out of planned orders, not existing aircraft, possibly the same for the F-35B. The USMC will not have 48 CH-53Ks much before 2025. The divestment of any existing aircraft would be of the oldest aircraft in the fleet, so you are looking at 20yo UH-1Y, AH-1Z and MV-22s.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Today, the Navy has 31 amphibious ships, what the Marine Corps considers the bare minimum it needs, but the Pentagon plans to shrink the fleet below that number in fiscal 2024.
A fleet with less than 31 amphibious transportships will make it even more harder for the USMC to operate during natural disasters and sudden emergency mass-evacuations abroad.
:quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/archetype/JD6265HZORD2TDEDITPNRR73GY.jpg)
www.defensenews.com
A fleet with less than 31 amphibious transportships will make it even more harder for the USMC to operate during natural disasters and sudden emergency mass-evacuations abroad.
Marines want 31 amphibious ships. The Pentagon disagrees. Now what?
The Navy has 31 amphibious ships — what the Corps considers the bare minimum it needs — but the Pentagon plans to shrink the fleet in fiscal 2024.
www.defensenews.com
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
|"The accident occurred when the right engine clutch, which connects the engine to the proprotor, disengaged and rapidly re-engaged, an occurrence called a hard clutch engagement. The strain from the HCE caused a shaft to shear in the tiltrotor's Single Engine and Interconnect Drive System (Single Engine/ICDS), which connects the two engines together such that one engine can power both proprotors. The Single Engine/ICDS failure resulted in a loss of thrust from the right proprotor, which sent the MV-22 into an unrecoverable turning descent, according to the accident report."|
Quite a severe weak point of the MV-22. Maybe one of the reasons Japan doesn't order more MV-22s besides the first 5.
Quite a severe weak point of the MV-22. Maybe one of the reasons Japan doesn't order more MV-22s besides the first 5.
US Marine Corps MV-22 crash traced to hard clutch engagement
A fatal 8 June 2022 US Marine Corps (USMC) MV-22 crash in Glamis, California, was traced to dual hard clutch engagement (HCE) in the right engine assembly, according to...
www.janes.com
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I wonder how the V-280 addresses the hard clutch issue? Its rotor/engine setup is different as the engine does not rotate.
MARKMILES77
Active Member
A USMC V-22 Osprey has crashed in the Northern Territory with 20 people on board.
Few details so far. Hopefully no fatalities.
Few details so far. Hopefully no fatalities.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Military personnel rescued from Melville Island aircraft crash - ABC News
ABC are saying that multiple people have been rescued and no reports of fatalities, occurred on Melville Island, about 60ks from Darwin.
FormerDirtDart
Well-Known Member
Non-paywalled reporting of USMC crash and some ATC audio
news.usni.org
taskandpurpose.com
UPDATED: 3 U.S. Marines Killed in Australian MV-22 Crash - USNI News
Three Marines were killed in a Sunday MV-22B Osprey crash off the coast of Darwin, Australia, according to the service. The tilt-rotor with 23 Maines aboard crashed around 11 a.m. local time on Melville Island while Marines were participating in Exercise Predators Run, according to a statement...
news.usni.org
3 Marines killed, 20 survivors in Australia Osprey crash. [Audio] [Updated]
A US pilot circling overhead reported that he could see survivors. The Osprey was in a training exercise near Darwin.
taskandpurpose.com
1 in critical condition, 2 stable, thats all the info released at this stage.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Three marines did not survived, 5 are taken to the hospital. The accident occured while the MV-22 was participating in "Predators Run 2023" which is a joint military exercise involving 2500 personnel from Australia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Timor-Lorosae and the US.
The MV-22 is more advanced and has a higher price tag, but i have the feeling it is not as reliable, safe and combat proven as the CH-47.
nos.nl
The MV-22 is more advanced and has a higher price tag, but i have the feeling it is not as reliable, safe and combat proven as the CH-47.
Drie Amerikaanse mariniers omgekomen bij helikoptercrash in Australië
De mariniers waren op een gezamenlijke oefening met militairen uit Australië, Indonesië, de Filipijnen en Oost-Timor.
nos.nl
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Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Osprey mishap: US Marines aircraft located at Shoalwater Bay off Rockhampton - ABC News
This is the 2nd time a USMC V-22 has crashed in Australia; first time was in Aug 2017 in Shoalwater Bay, again with the loss of 3 Marines.
This is the 2nd time a USMC V-22 has crashed in Australia; first time was in Aug 2017 in Shoalwater Bay, again with the loss of 3 Marines.
MARKMILES77
Active Member
13 complete hull losses out of around 400 ever built. Most of those resulted in fatalities.The MV-22 is more advanced and has a higher price tag, but i have the feeling it is not as reliable, safe and combat proven as the CH-47.
Drie Amerikaanse mariniers omgekomen bij helikoptercrash in Australië
De mariniers waren op een gezamenlijke oefening met militairen uit Australië, Indonesië, de Filipijnen en Oost-Timor.
Not to mention many other non hull loss accidents.
That is, 1 in every 30 V-22s built has been involved in a major accident, SO FAR.
That seems ridiculously high to me.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
It will be interesting to see if the next generation tilt rotor (V-280) can significantly improve the accident ratio.
FormerDirtDart
Well-Known Member
Both articles have been updated with more recent information
Non-paywalled reporting of USMC crash and some ATC audio
UPDATED: 3 U.S. Marines Killed in Australian MV-22 Crash - USNI News
Three Marines were killed in a Sunday MV-22B Osprey crash off the coast of Darwin, Australia, according to the service. The tilt-rotor with 23 Maines aboard crashed around 11 a.m. local time on Melville Island while Marines were participating in Exercise Predators Run, according to a statement...3 Marines killed, 20 survivors in Australia Osprey crash. [Audio] [Updated]
A US pilot circling overhead reported that he could see survivors. The Osprey was in a training exercise near Darwin.
FormerDirtDart
Well-Known Member
Announced a few days ago, the USN has contracted for 35 CH-35K aircraft. I believe this is the first contracting of full-rate production (FRP) airframes. Deliveries expected to begin in 2026.
From this order the USMC will receive 27 helicopters. 12 from Lot 7, 15 from Lot 8.
This contract also provides for the Foreign Military Sale (FMS) of 8 aircraft to the Israeli Air Force.
:quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/archetype/2QYAK27D6BD3PE2EOZS7DD6WJU.jpg)
www.defensenews.com
Back in April it was reported the US and Israel executed a joint USN & FMS contract for 169 T408 engines (129 / 40) with General Electric.
I keep waiting for some thread of interest in the USN to replace their aging fleet of MH-53E Sea Dragons with a -53K variant. It does not appear to be coming. The JMSDF has already replaced their versions of the Sea Dragon with AW101 airframes. I really don't think an entirely new orphan aircraft fleet is an option for the USN.
From this order the USMC will receive 27 helicopters. 12 from Lot 7, 15 from Lot 8.
This contract also provides for the Foreign Military Sale (FMS) of 8 aircraft to the Israeli Air Force.
US Navy awards Sikorsky $2.7 billion for 35 CH-53K helicopters
The contract covers 12 lot 7 and 15 lot 8 aircraft for the U.S. Marine Corps, as well as eight aircraft for the Israeli Air Force.
www.defensenews.com
Back in April it was reported the US and Israel executed a joint USN & FMS contract for 169 T408 engines (129 / 40) with General Electric.
I keep waiting for some thread of interest in the USN to replace their aging fleet of MH-53E Sea Dragons with a -53K variant. It does not appear to be coming. The JMSDF has already replaced their versions of the Sea Dragon with AW101 airframes. I really don't think an entirely new orphan aircraft fleet is an option for the USN.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Perhaps LM should consider offering the CH-148 Cyclone assuming 53k cost is an issue and the extra lift the 53K offers isn’t required.Announced a few days ago, the USN has contracted for 35 CH-35K aircraft. I believe this is the first contracting of full-rate production (FRP) airframes. Deliveries expected to begin in 2026.
From this order the USMC will receive 27 helicopters. 12 from Lot 7, 15 from Lot 8.
This contract also provides for the Foreign Military Sale (FMS) of 8 aircraft to the Israeli Air Force.
US Navy awards Sikorsky $2.7 billion for 35 CH-53K helicopters
The contract covers 12 lot 7 and 15 lot 8 aircraft for the U.S. Marine Corps, as well as eight aircraft for the Israeli Air Force.
Back in April it was reported the US and Israel executed a joint USN & FMS contract for 169 T408 engines (129 / 40) with General Electric.
I keep waiting for some thread of interest in the USN to replace their aging fleet of MH-53E Sea Dragons with a -53K variant. It does not appear to be coming. The JMSDF has already replaced their versions of the Sea Dragon with AW101 airframes. I really don't think an entirely new orphan aircraft fleet is an option for the USN.
FormerDirtDart
Well-Known Member
With HMX-1 set to operate the VH-92 as the replacement "Marine 1" I did think that would alleviate the "orphan fleet" status a bit. But, the USN has already determined that the 2-engine MH-60 had insufficient power to utilize the "light weight" mine sled developed as part of the LCS' mine warfare package. I suspect a S-92 variant would have a similar shortcoming.
I suspect in the end the USN is going to rely on USVs for long range countermine operations, and tap the USN CMV-22 and USMC CH-53K fleet for their heavy lift needs.
And don't go thinking about the USN's CMV-22s doing countermine. The MV-22s are significantly inefficient when hovering or slower "blades up" flight
Takao
The Bunker Group
A lower mishap rate per 100,000 flight hours than the Harrier, Super Hornet, F-35B, or CH-53E Super Stallion is pretty good. Most of the fatalities occurred during testing as well. Don't forget, for most of those an accident will kill one or two, but as the V-22 is a transport, death tolls are likely to be higher.
The V-22 is a fascinating example of PR / image consistently trumping fact. I'd argue that it's actually better than it seems, noting how complex it is compared to most of those platforms.
It's also a platform that I, as an aero eng, know is safe but still ponder getting on