Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I actually never understand why the X-35 wasnt installed on the Neustrashimy from the beginning. After all it was for many years the most modern fregat of the Russian navy. The Yaroslav Mudry is armed with it, right?
Yep. It's pretty sad. Then again the Russian destroyer workhorse is the 1155 BPK, carrying the pathetic Rastrub AShM. No reason that couldn't be replaced with identically placed X-35s or even tilted Yakhont tubes (there's actually now finally a plan to install X-35s on one of the Pacific Fleet BPKs).
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Some good news!
Russian Navy to Receive First Admiral Gorshkov-Class Frigate on November 22

Russia
10:20 28.07.2016(updated 10:29 28.07.2016)

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The Russian Navy will receive the Admiral Gorshkov, the lead ship of its class and the first Project 22350 frigate, on November 22, the Russian Navy's former First Deputy Commander-in-Chief Admiral Igor Kasatonov said.
More at Russian Navy to Receive First Admiral Gorshkov-Class Frigate on November 22

The Admiral Kasatonov, the second project 22350 vessel, will join the Russian Navy in the end of 2017. Well hopefully there will be no problems with the delivery of those Ukrainian engines.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Some good news!

More at Russian Navy to Receive First Admiral Gorshkov-Class Frigate on November 22

The Admiral Kasatonov, the second project 22350 vessel, will join the Russian Navy in the end of 2017. Well hopefully there will be no problems with the delivery of those Ukrainian engines.
There is no delivery. The engines were delivered years ago. The ship is completed and is currently undergoing state trials in the Northern Fleet. The second 22350 is in the same boat, engines already delivered. It's the next 4 ships that are in trouble (total of 6 22350s are planned through 2025). The second 22350 will probably be handed over late 2017, and after that it will likely be 3-4 years before the third ship is ready.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
There is no delivery. The engines were delivered years ago. The ship is completed and is currently undergoing state trials in the Northern Fleet. The second 22350 is in the same boat, engines already delivered. It's the next 4 ships that are in trouble (total of 6 22350s are planned through 2025). The second 22350 will probably be handed over late 2017, and after that it will likely be 3-4 years before the third ship is ready.
Thank you for your explanation Feanor!

Well, i just 'discovered the existence of a new class of corvettes'.
I never saw them before, also (as far as i know) not on defencetalk. Five ships are ordered for the Russian Navy, and the nice thing is that they not only will be armed with the P800 Oniks and 3M54 Kalibr missiles, but also with a naval variant of the Pantsir SAM-system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karakut-class_corvette
These Little Russian Corvettes Will Turn the Black Sea Into a Fortress
Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette - Page 3

I didnt find much info or images of this new class. Feanor, do you have more to share with us?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Thank you for your explanation Feanor!

Well, i just 'discovered the existence of a new class of corvettes'.
I never saw them before, also (as far as i know) not on defencetalk. Five ships are ordered for the Russian Navy, and the nice thing is that they not only will be armed with the P800 Oniks and 3M54 Kalibr missiles, but also with a naval variant of the Pantsir SAM-system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karakut-class_corvette
These Little Russian Corvettes Will Turn the Black Sea Into a Fortress
Project 22800: "Karakurt" class corvette - Page 3

I didnt find much info or images of this new class. Feanor, do you have more to share with us?
Remember the Buyan-M 21631s for the Caspian and now Black Sea Fleet? This is the same kind of boat except smaller and built for sea and oceans. It sits much deeper and unlike the buyan, can't be moved around using internal waterways. 4 have been laid down so far, and given that it's small and fairly simple, we can expect large numbers to be built. Unfortunately, due to problems with the powerplants, he VMF will be represented heavily by aging Soviet 1155s and large numbers of smaller ships (21631s, 22800s, and 20380s). It looks like, realistically, there will be a total of 5 frigates handed over before 2020, all of them this and next year. Then a 3-5 year lull, while they get domestic gas-turbine production up.

Meanwhile the first 1164 has completed overhaul and upgrades, and there seems to have been no changes to the weapons.
 
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  • #986
I hope the Karakut class has sonar, the UKSK launchers can carry the 91RTE2 rocket launched torpedo. The Russians could replace ass their different types Soviet missile boats, ASW corvettes, and ASSM with one cheap class of corvette. I think 20385 was just to small for VMF plans. It looks like the 20386 will use 20385 Puma and Zaslon radars. The VMF needs to add stern opening doors to 20386, so that Club K can be fired instantly. I personally think 20386 is a waste of money. If the VMF wants more Kalbir launchers, the VMF should build more cheaper Buyan-M and Karakut Class corvettes.


Has anyone heard news about Project 22350M? It was supposed to be a stretched enhanced AAW version of the Project 22350.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I hope the Karakut class has sonar, the UKSK launchers can carry the 91RTE2 rocket launched torpedo. The Russians could replace ass their different types Soviet missile boats, ASW corvettes, and ASSM with one cheap class of corvette.
I very much doubt it. It's basically a small Kalibr platform with some self-defense AA.

I think 20385 was just to small for VMF plans.
What? The 20385 is just a 20380 upgrade. It's not any smaller, in fact it's larger then the 20380.

It looks like the 20386 will use 20385 Puma and Zaslon radars. The VMF needs to add stern opening doors to 20386, so that Club K can be fired instantly. I personally think 20386 is a waste of money. If the VMF wants more Kalbir launchers, the VMF should build more cheaper Buyan-M and Karakut Class corvettes.
I don't think the 20386 carries any Kalibr missiles. The models and renderings I've seen portray it with X-35s just like the 20380. Basically the 20386 is an upgraded 20380. I understand that it was demonstrated to have the same container-based module space that could potentially carry Kalibr but I don't think it will be standard on them.

Has anyone heard news about Project 22350M? It was supposed to be a stretched enhanced AAW version of the Project 22350.
The 22350M is a major upgrade of the 22350 design and what exactly it will be remains to be seen. As is, an upgraded frigate will probably be entering production post 2025 so it's nothing we have to worry about at this point.
 
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  • #988
I very much doubt it. It's basically a small Kalibr platform with some self-defense AA..
Nobody knows since specific about Karakut-class haven't been discussing by VMF senior leaders.

What? The 20385 is just a 20380 upgrade. It's not any smaller, in fact it's larger then the 20380.
Yes, the Project is a little longer than the 20380. I misspoke about the 20385 being to small for VMF needs.

I don't think the 20386 carries any Kalibr missiles. The models and renderings I've seen portray it with X-35s just like the 20380. Basically the 20386 is an upgraded 20380. I understand that it was demonstrated to have the same container-based module space that could potentially carry Kalibr but I don't think it will be standard on them.
The VMF was going stop building the 20380, but the 20385 became to pricey. I wish we could compare the costs of UKSK launchers to Club K container launchers.


The 22350M is a major upgrade of the 22350 design and what exactly it will be remains to be seen. As is, an upgraded frigate will probably be entering production post 2025 so it's nothing we have to worry about at this point.
The advertisement video of the 22350M, which came out a one or two years ago, used several of the radars of the know proposed Lider class destroyer design. I think the video was deleted. Both projects may use different radars, but it would be good use Russia's limited naval resources if that happened.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Nobody knows since specific about Karakut-class haven't been discussing by VMF senior leaders.
It's an 800 tonn ship with Kalibr missiles and a Pantsyr-M. I suppose anything is possible but I would be surprised.

The VMF was going stop building the 20380, but the 20385 became to pricey. I wish we could compare the costs of UKSK launchers to Club K container launchers.
This has little to do with it. The 20385 has German engines. And those are now off the table. Given that it's bigger and heavier, the domestic engines were deemed unsuitable, and the VMF decided to continue 20380 production instead, with several more ships laid down after a brief pause to re-evaluate. Also the Klub and the Kalibr are the same system (Klub/Club is the export designation). The 20380s carry the Kh-35 (X-35) Uran.

The advertisement video of the 22350M, which came out a one or two years ago, used several of the radars of the know proposed Lider class destroyer design. I think the video was deleted. Both projects may use different radars, but it would be good use Russia's limited naval resources if that happened.
It was a concept video. They haven't even properly finished work on the current 22350s (the longer-range missile for the SAM seems to be in trouble). So to be honest, I don't see much value in speculating on the subject. There will definitely be a major 22350 upgrade in the post 2025 timeframe, but that's a decade a away.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The Kuznetsov is about to carry a modern airgroup for the first time in a while. It looks like it will be bringing Ka-52K helos, and an Su-33 has just been upgraded with the SVP-24 system, the same one that the Su-24Ms use to drop unguided bombs with improved accuracy. It appears 2 aircraft have been equipped, and the rest are in process (we can expect at least 4, maybe as many as 8). Finally the MiG-29KR is performing landing and takeoff training, with at least 7 pilots already certified.

Су-33 "ГефеÑÑ‚" - bmpd
Рвот вертолет Ка-52К и на палубе "Ðдмирала Кузнецова" - Добро пожаловать в журнал РоÑтовÑкого Орла
Итак Ð¿ÐµÑ€Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ñадка Миг-29КР на палубу "Кузнецова" - Добро пожаловать в журноÑтовÑкого Орла
Ка-52К над палубой ÐвианоÑца "Ðдмирал Кузнецов" - Добро пожаловать в журнал РоÑтовÑкого Орла
 

Toblerone

Banned Member
I have been reading about the Kuznetsov deployment in Syria, most articles mention November. The US presidential elections are in the 8th of November, I wonder if the timing is preplanned to forestall the new US administration from attempting a bold change of policy from the current passive stance to a more aggressive one. For example attempting to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria.

Without the air support (force multiplier) the regime will fold to the emboldened rebel groups within about 1 year imo.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
If Russia would have the goal of strengthen their fighter presence in Syria it would be far easier to just relocate some additional Su-30/35 to Hmeimeim.

The Kutznezov deployment is, as so many other actions in Syria (cruise missile strikes by air and sea assets, delployment to Iranian airbase,...), probably more of a live fire training deployment and statement for international observers and internal consumption as about helping the Syrian government.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Maybe they are worried about the viability of future missions all being based out of Hmeimeim.

If anything (IS or Turkey) was to prohibit or restrict operations out of Hmeimeim that would be a big issue for them. I believe its come under rocket attack before.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I doubt that the IS or any other rebel group has the means to really disrupt operations out of Hmeimeim and Turkey won't do it unless they wan't to start a war with Russia in which case the Kutznzov isn't really safe either.
 

Ranger25

Active Member
Staff member
I have been reading about the Kuznetsov deployment in Syria, most articles mention November. The US presidential elections are in the 8th of November, I wonder if the timing is preplanned to forestall the new US administration from attempting a bold change of policy from the current passive stance to a more aggressive one. For example attempting to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria.

Without the air support (force multiplier) the regime will fold to the emboldened rebel groups within about 1 year imo.

I don't think the deployment, however ceremonial, of an escort carrier to the region impacts much. It would be a positive move to show it can actually conduct a deployment without needed more maintenance. The new America Class LHA will carry more F35s
Impact on the US election minimal at best, would only reinforce the lack of American foreign policy of the last 7 years

If they wanted to enforce a no fly zone it it would be far simpler (and cheaper) to use ground based aircraft.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
If Russia would have the goal of strengthen their fighter presence in Syria it would be far easier to just relocate some additional Su-30/35 to Hmeimeim.

The Kutznezov deployment is, as so many other actions in Syria (cruise missile strikes by air and sea assets, delployment to Iranian airbase,...), probably more of a live fire training deployment and statement for international observers and internal consumption as about helping the Syrian government.
This is pretty much spot on. They want some combat experience for their relatively few carrier pilots, the experience of deploying a carrier in a relevant fashion, and to show off that they can do it. The Kuznetsov, after this deployment, will go into a long refit and upgrade. So it will be out of service for years. This is their one chance to try it out in combat.
 

Tsavo Lion

Banned Member
I don't think the deployment, however ceremonial, of an escort carrier to the region impacts much. .. If they wanted to enforce a no fly zone it it would be far simpler (and cheaper) to use ground based aircraft.
Adm. K isn't an escort carrier! Its official designation is TAKR Tyazholyi Avianesushyi Kreyser (Russian: Heavy Aircraft Carrying Cruiser).
No need for no fly zone as they try to avoid air-air confrontation with US, others & the rebels they bomb have zero AF assets.
 

Ranger25

Active Member
Staff member

lowgo

New Member
I must ask if the pictures from the deck are already from the deployment voyage?

Sorry if this will sound offensive but...flip flops allowed on the main deck ? :crazy Are these the standards on a battle ready ship? Looks like a bunch of villagers getting a piece of a heavy machinery into the field.
 
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