Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

Rimasta

Member
Russia news leaked-probably on purpose-details of a nuclear tipped submarine launched torpedo. The Toroedo is called the "Status-6". It seems this will likely provoke the US to strengthen its nuclear posture. Some are already saying the US Navy should deploy nuclear tipped tomahawks or TLAM-N's back on US Navy vessels.

Russia has said it planned countermeasures to the US-NATO missile defenses but nuclear torpedos seem like they only guarantee US commitment to missile defense, and upgrading its nuclear Triad. Perhaps it'll pave the way to a new arms control agreement, although it doesn't seem like that's where the wind is blowing.

Russia reveals giant nuclear torpedo in state TV 'leak' - BBC News
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Russia news leaked-probably on purpose-details of a nuclear tipped submarine launched torpedo. The Toroedo is called the "Status-6". It seems this will likely provoke the US to strengthen its nuclear posture. Some are already saying the US Navy should deploy nuclear tipped tomahawks or TLAM-N's back on US Navy vessels.

Russia has said it planned countermeasures to the US-NATO missile defenses but nuclear torpedos seem like they only guarantee US commitment to missile defense, and upgrading its nuclear Triad. Perhaps it'll pave the way to a new arms control agreement, although it doesn't seem like that's where the wind is blowing.

Russia reveals giant nuclear torpedo in state TV 'leak' - BBC News
Status-6 is something different entirely. It's an unmanned submersile, not just a torpedo, with a nuclear weapon. It's use is not tactical, it's supposedly a megaton-class warhead for destroying coastal areas. The unmanned submersile is supposedly designed with a depth up to 1000m, and long range.

If anything, this is a new form of MAD.

EDIT: Allegedly the range is 10 000 kms, and each sub can potentially carry multiple units. The idea is that they will be used to destroy coastal cities, and contaminate the coastline with radiation, thus making life impossible in the coastal areas. Something quite relevant, consider US population distribution.

http://imperia-mir.livejournal.com/80453.html
 
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Ranger25

Active Member
Staff member
Status-6 is something different entirely. It's an unmanned submersile, not just a torpedo, with a nuclear weapon. It's use is not tactical, it's supposedly a megaton-class warhead for destroying coastal areas. The unmanned submersile is supposedly designed with a depth up to 1000m, and long range.

If anything, this is a new form of MAD.

EDIT: Allegedly the range is 10 000 kms, and each sub can potentially carry multiple units. The idea is that they will be used to destroy coastal cities, and contaminate the coastline with radiation, thus making life impossible in the coastal areas. Something quite relevant, consider US population distribution.

СтатуÑ-6 - оружие на Day After. Ответы на вопроÑÑ‹. - ОТ МИРРСЕГО
Three concerns IMO

1- is this propaganda or a realistic weapon?

2- leaks say speeds up to 100kph? What would countermeasures be?

3-if realistic, given budget constraints and where the price of crude and value of Ruble stand, realistic timeframes to field?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Move the capital to Denver!
Yes, that would certainly save the capital, but how well would the US do if it were to lose both coastlines for the next ~300 years, due to radiation levels? These weapons are a recognition of the fact that in the modern world deterrence doesn't require total annihilation. Even the destruction of 6 major coastal cities, and ~50-100kms of coastline around them would be an unacceptably high price for any foreign adventure the US could possibly seek to undertake.

On an additional note, apparently they will not only carry nuclear warheads but be nuclear-powered. This is interesting in light of the work currently being done on mobile nuclear power plants for the Russian military.

Three concerns IMO

1- is this propaganda or a realistic weapon?
Both, from the looks of it. They've been working on something with deepwater unmanned vehicles.

2- leaks say speeds up to 100kph? What would countermeasures be?
Good questions. Russian commentators are saying "unstoppable" but I'm hoping our def-pros here will have a better answer.

3-if realistic, given budget constraints and where the price of crude and value of Ruble stand, realistic timeframes to field?
Well it's a question of trade-offs. The Putin government would sooner raise retirement age, and cut spending on healthcare and education, as well as potential additional taxes, then sacrifice the re-armament program. At least that's how it stands right now. This should tell you that if push comes to shove, and they feel they need this to ensure that BMD can never reliably stop the Russian arsenal, then they will make sure it gets funded.

But let's not forget the two subs in question (09851 and 09852), as well as the current testbed (the Sarov) are all experimental one-off designs. If they were serious about deploying this in a major way, they'd need a whole new class of nuke subs. Strategic Nuclear Submersile Carriers. Then again, they may not need many of these things. The paper in the "leaked" video shows one to carry 4 and the other 6. Add to that whatever the Sarov can carry, even if just a couple, and 12 of these might be enough to guarantee deterrence.12 major coastal cities destroyed, and their immediate surroundings contaminated would certainly be too high a price to pay. And if some of the targets hit are major naval bases, and not just cities, this could cripple the USN on one theater at least.

In other words, this may end up being just 2-3 subs with a new experimental weapon (possibly two separate weapons actually, hence the two separate and rather different subs with different numbers of potential submersiles). It all remains to be seen.
 

barney41

Member
This is purported to counter the US missile shield but the latter is never intended to deal with a massive ICBM strike. IMO Russia is just messing with the West and trying to paint the US Missile Shield as a destabilizing factor that could trigger a ew arms race.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
This is purported to counter the US missile shield but the latter is never intended to deal with a massive ICBM strike. IMO Russia is just messing with the West and trying to paint the US Missile Shield as a destabilizing factor that could trigger a ew arms race.
If they are serious about deploying this new weapon, then the new arms race would effectively be in progress already. As for the missile shield, in its current form no. But considering a scenario where the total number of ICBMs continues to shrink and ABM technology improves, and it's not inconceivable. There was a time when intercepting all operational-tactical missiles was thought to be a fantasy. Then the Gulf War rolled around and the US practically did it. Circumstances change, and with improving technology, there will definitely come a day when ICBMs are no longer viable. You can't possibly claim that they will always be enough.

Like I said, this is still in the early stages, and they don't seem to be deploying a large number, so it's a little too early to say for sure what the intent is. Perhaps the purpose to have the technology and ability for later. Perhaps there is a potential conventional use for these vehicles. It's not clear yet. Status-6 implies Status1-5, and possibly 7,8,9,10 etc.
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
2- leaks say speeds up to 100kph? What would countermeasures be?
Other torpedoes I'd say, considering the size of the thing. Maybe something lightweight and fast like the MU90? I realise that for the moment these are surface-launched and air-dropped only but I can't see a fundamental barrier for adapting them for sub-surface fire. Perhaps on a UUV? Unless you were running a surface and air coordinated pattern. The two other obvious answers are to hunt and kill the launch units (easier said than done, of course), and make use of every ECM system you've got.

Just off the top of my head, but I've been sitting on planes and in airports for the last 18 hours so forgive me if I'm barking up the wrong tree :)
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Some adding for the recent news about Russian 'secret torpedo' shown on TV


Status-6 Project: What Is Really Known
There might be a third carrier. The 667BDRM sub K-64 is almost finished being rebuilt as a special carrier of deepwater nuclear stations, and unmanned submersiles. Project 09787 is the new project number, and while it's not directly associated with Status-6, the similarities are striking. By the way, the Sarov was not associated with Status-6 in the leaked release either, but there are good reasons to think it's the testbed.

ÐÑ‚Ð¾Ð¼Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´Ð²Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð»Ð¾Ð´ÐºÐ° "ПодмоÑковье" на воде - bmpd
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
There was a lot of speculation earlier over whether the VMF would manage without Ukrainian engine production and repair. Two ships, the Neustrashimiy and the Admiral Chabanenko had their engines due for repairs and overhauls and a small new company, Novik, in Samara, was tasked with the work. However at the end of this year the Yaroslav Mudriy was discovered to have critical issues with one of the turbines. The ship otherwise doesn't require repairwork, and is ready for service, so the order was for emergency repairs. It's about to receive it's turbine, the first former Zarya turbine to be fully repaired in Russia. This will be a big indicator of Russian ability to localize maintenance and overhaul work on those engines.

Interestingly enough, Kuznetsov, the aircraft engine manufacturer, is also involved in the repair work.

Ездить-то надо... - Берлога Бронемедведа

Given the increased emphasis on sea-based cruise missile capability, and the desperate need for more ships, this is a big deal. The next big question will be whether they can start up independent domestic production, especially for larger ships like the 11356s and 22350s. If the answer is yes, then Zarya will be out of a job, quite possibly permanently (even if relations were to normalize).
 

Ranger25

Active Member
Staff member
Nothing happened to it. It's at Nikolaev the way it always was.
Feanor, question Sir


With the ever announcing upgrades to Russian military hardware across the boards i.e. New ships, aircraft, armored vehicle families etc, and now the OPEX of Syria, when do they run out of capital? I don't see all of these projects realistically sustainable given the current state of the economy. The MOD has already announced reductions in PAK50 production numbers (from an initial of 166 to now 60?h already.

All seems unsustainable


Thoughts?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Feanor, question Sir


With the ever announcing upgrades to Russian military hardware across the boards i.e. New ships, aircraft, armored vehicle families etc, and now the OPEX of Syria, when do they run out of capital? I don't see all of these projects realistically sustainable given the current state of the economy. The MOD has already announced reductions in PAK50 production numbers (from an initial of 166 to now 60?h already.

All seems unsustainable


Thoughts?
That's a very general question. I'm not sure what will actually happen. I mean they've already cancelled the more ambitious corvette, the 20385, and instead will build more 20380s. They're also not really proceeding with the large programs, the destroyer is on paper only, the a/c hasn't even been decided on. Instead they're re-arming Soviet cruisers with Kalibr missiles, and producing smaller frigates and corvettes.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The first 11356 has just completed state trials, and the second one is close on its heels. It looks like the Black Sea Fleet will finally see significant re-armament. Towards the end of last hear it took two Kilos and two small missile ships. Next year it will get two frigates, one small missile ship, and two more Kilo subs. With every single warship carrying the Kalibr missile (NK and PL variants). Towards the close of 2016, the Black Sea Fleet will have a joint volley capability of 60 Kalibr missiles, nearly double that of the Caspian Flotilla's 32.

Фрегат "Ðдмирал Григорович" завершил ГоÑудаÑтвенные иÑÐ¿Ñ‹Ñ‚Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ - bmpd
 
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