Russian Army/Ground Forces Discussion and Updates

[macman]

Mi-28 passenger cabin

RE: the Mi-28 passenger cabin, it apparently does have a small compartment aft of the main cockpit. It is supposed to be able to fit 3 people, but that looks a little optimistic from the pictures of it...
Apparently it is intended for rescueing downed pilots & crew rather than taking fully laden soldiers into battle, although it looks useful for storage..

See photo's at: Russian Photos (updated on regular basis) - Page 3135

& it mentions it at:
Mil Mi-28 (Havoc) Attack Helicopter - History, Specs and Pictures - Military Aircraft

 

[Klaus]

Interesting. But I wonder whether this is of any use. Other helicopters would probably do better in rescuing pilots, especially if they are wounded.

 

[macman]

Interesting. But I wonder whether this is of any use. Other helicopters would probably do better in rescuing pilots, especially if they are wounded.

The Mi-28 is supposed to be one of the most heavily-armoured helicopters in the world, if not the heaviest, as well as having some brutal firepower capabilities.

I would imagine it would be pretty useful if you had a plane/chopper shot down & the crew stranded in a "hot" environment.
Sending in a couple of Mi-28's for pickup which can lay down a very heavy barrage to suppress the enemy, while one goes down to grab the crew, & which can take a lot of punishment where a chopper is at it's most vulnerable...

To my knowledge, most soviet chopper losses in the Afghan war came from heavy fire as choppers were landing & taking off in "hot" environments, mostly from heavy machine-guns/cannon/RPG fire. Imagine atleast some of the losses came in attempts to rescue downed crew...


There is also the part where it might be the only chopper available in area, so it's a pretty good back-up capacity to have, especially if it doesn't detract from performance. The Mi-28's raw performance looks to be pretty impressive in regards to speed & manouverability.

 

[macman]

Russia going into virtual training environments...

This looked interesting:-
Rheinmetall Works On Combat Training Center In Russia

Looks like a big partnership with the German's has been signed, & the Russian ground forces are going heavily into virtual training environments.

Typical foreign deal in structure with the Russian's - going into partnership with a local company & lots of license production...

With the German economy starting to struggle, especially in some of the more advanced industrial sectors, wouldn't be surprised to see a few more big deals like this being signed.

 

[Klaus]

I'm not sure about that. In Germany all exports of military equipment are being discussed endlessly, and you can bet that the opposition and probably also the public wouldn't support the sale of military hardware to Russia. What concerns training centers and software, there is not that much criticism, but tanks or things like that will never be sold.

Coming back to the Mi-28, have the helicopters, which are already in service, finally been equipped with radars?

 

[Feanor]

Was the reasoning for the purchase of the Iveco Lynx's ever stated?
And is it a done deal in that it will be put into service in large quantities?

Looking at how cramped this thing is, to be blunt, it looks like a pile of cr*p, & I'd imagine the units that get assigned it will hate it.

Personally thought the whole point of a fast utility vehicle is to have your people mobile & ready to jump into action at a moments notice...
After an hour driving around in that thing, you'd be lucky to be able to move at all by the time you get there (unless they're planning to recruit a brigade of midgets). Everything about it is cramped, & most of the fancy equipment looks boderline unusable because you just don't have the room to use it properly.

Worst design I've seen in a while, & that's with some bloody awful stuff out there in competition. If this bloody thing is adopted, I forsee a lot purposeful sabotage in it's future, as the unit's assigned it make their feelings known...
---

Why didn't they go for the GAZ? It looks a hell of a lot roomier, & GAZ is supposed to have an excellent rep. & support base over there...

The protection levels of Tigr and GAZ vehicles are tiny. When they get upgraded to protection levels that are lower then the Iveco, but still noteworthy, they also get extremely cramped inside. This is true for the Scorpion from Zaschita Corp., the Tigr-M and Tigr-6A, and even the Volk.

Among other interesting news, the Russian Army will use locally produced Volvo trucks to carry new refueling systems for helos.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/330209.html

Photos from the fex where the Volvos were used together with Ural-based refuelers, for a helo unit. This is probably in preparation for the return of helos to Army Aviation. Among other interesting things you can see GLONASS-based digital maps, and BMP-3 APCs in use.

http://samoletchik.livejournal.com/47693.html#cutid1
https://picasaweb.google.com/117990383296131038585/MTO_12_1

Here's some photos of the Iveco Lynx in the 10th SpetzNaz Bde. Two of them have been delivered there, and have been used very little for basic transport roles. Their mobility has been criticized, and the interiors were considered cramped.

http://twower.livejournal.com/862741.html

Also with regards to earlier questions about the T-80 and it's future in the Land Forces, the T-80BV tanks of the 6th Kantemirskaya Tank Brigade will be replaced with T-72B model 2011, basically a T-72 with TIs (most likely Thales Catherine), K-5 ERA, new radios, new FCS, new sights, and possibly new engines.

http://twower.livejournal.com/864556.html

Also there is a continuing upgrade program for the BMD-1 into the BMD-2 and BMD-2K. Meanwhile the BMD-4M which is written into the state defense order through 2020 is still stalled, and not being purchased. Not a positive sign, at all.

http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/09/1.html

 

[alexkvaskov]

What kind of weaponry and equipment do the Russian Border Guards use? I've read that they've been purchasing UAVs in small numbers, but do they use tanks, APCs, arty etc

 

[Feanor]

What kind of weaponry and equipment do the Russian Border Guards use? I've read that they've been purchasing UAVs in small numbers, but do they use tanks, APCs, arty etc

Arty-wise probably nothing heavier then 2S12 Sani, 120mm mortars. Vehicle-wise BTR-70/80, also UAZ, Kamaz/Ural armored trucks possibly, and Mi-8 and Mi-24 helos. I don't think they have tanks. They are filled fully by contract soldiers, and technically fall under the FSB. Some of the UAVs they use are Zala helicopter-types. They even have their own recon units.

There were news that the FSB in Kareliya is testing a ground-effect vehicle for border guard usage.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Can anyone ID this T-72 variant and that monster sight?
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=74288&d=1241948066

 

[Feanor]

Can anyone ID this T-72 variant and that monster sight?
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=74288&d=1241948066

Looks like an upgraded T-72B or M variant with Arena.

 

[Damian90]

Looks like an upgraded T-72B or M variant with Arena.

No, it is basic T-90 (with cast turret... in fact basic T-90 is nothing more than T-72B on steroids) with Arena active protection system.

You can know that this is T-90 by it's tank commander powered cupola with remotly controlled machine gun mount.

The Arena in this configuration differs from earlier presentations because Arena projectiles belt is placed behind ERA cassettes.

PS. on the poster near a tank it is designated T-72M1M, but it does not have anything in common with T-72M1. The turret is typical for T-72B/T-90 series, while TC cupola is typical for T-90, T-90A, T-80UD, T-84, T-64A and T-64B series.

 

[Haavarla]

Arty-wise probably nothing heavier then 2S12 Sani, 120mm mortars. Vehicle-wise BTR-70/80, also UAZ, Kamaz/Ural armored trucks possibly, and Mi-8 and Mi-24 helos. I don't think they have tanks. They are filled fully by contract soldiers, and technically fall under the FSB. Some of the UAVs they use are Zala helicopter-types. They even have their own recon units.

There were news that the FSB in Kareliya is testing a ground-effect vehicle for border guard usage.

Thats right. The Russian Border troops have been re-supply and blessed with new eqipment. There have been a yearly Norwegian/Russian border personel visits. And by reports i can not post, the Russian border Personel have been re-orginized and re-supplyed.

I also talked to a FSB personel in Murmansk. He confirmed that both the Russian Coast Guard and border personel are directly under FSB juridiction.

 

[Feanor]

No, it is basic T-90 (with cast turret... in fact basic T-90 is nothing more than T-72B on steroids) with Arena active protection system.

You can know that this is T-90 by it's tank commander powered cupola with remotly controlled machine gun mount.

The Arena in this configuration differs from earlier presentations because Arena projectiles belt is placed behind ERA cassettes.

PS. on the poster near a tank it is designated T-72M1M, but it does not have anything in common with T-72M1. The turret is typical for T-72B/T-90 series, while TC cupola is typical for T-90, T-90A, T-80UD, T-84, T-64A and T-64B series.

The hull is a T-72 then, possibly the engine.

Among other interesting news, a Command and Control variant of the Iveco Lynx was demonstrated at Caucus-2012. The onboard equipment was from a Russian producer.

http://twower.livejournal.com/873967.html
http://twower.livejournal.com/878624.html

I wonder what other variants will be developed. It seems that the Lynx type MRAPs won't become the main transport vehicle for Motor-Rifles units (even the light ones will probably use Typhoon type MRAPs) but only for recon, SpetzNaz, etc. They showed a model of a Tigr carrying an 82mm mortar, built into the vehicle. I wonder if similar modified Lynxes will be developed. They also need a UAV transport on the 4X4 chassis of light vehicles.

 

[Feanor]

Russian trials of next-gen individual tactical gear, and weapons, have been called successful by the MoD. The new gear set called Ratnik includes new flak jacket, tactical vest (similar to LBV, separate from the Flak) kevlar, and other elements. The assault rifle tested was a modernized AK-74, with optics, a front broomstick and a 60-round magazine. Also an upgraded SVD with a new scope was tested as a new designated marksman rifle, and an Orsis T-5000 as a domestic sniper rifle.

Lenta.ru:

Some photos from the trials here.

bmpd -

We can expect to see state trials conclude later this year, when the winter version gets tested, and first deliveries to start next year, first to either the 27th Motor-Rifles where the trials are taking place, or to the 5th MRB. Then probably to SpetzNaz units in the North Caucus. Prime candidates would be the 10th and 22nd Brigades. In short regular units aren't likely to see these for a few more years, as production ramps up, and deliveries accelerate.

EDIT: More models of the new Coalition-SV-O artillery piece have been shown. One is on the Armata tracked chassis, the other on a Kamaz 8X8 platform. The gun supposedly is the 2A88, and the entire turret is unmanned, with the entire crew located in protected capsules inside the tracked hull. In the case of the Kamaz chassis, I suppose this would mean that the crew operates the gun from the truck cabin. It only has one barrel now, and carries the index 2S35-1. Range is mentioned as being around 70 km.

http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/10/httpriaruarmsmm20121008769372259htmlixz.html

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/351155.html

Other things mentioned in the video are new munitions for the Tornado-S system (300mm MLRS replacing the Smerch), supposedly having range of 200 km. This would increase the overlap between the heavy-arty and the operational-tactical missile units. New Tornado-S would outrange the older Tochka and even Tochka-U systems (90 and 120 km ranges respectively). Given that they also supposedly have GLONASS guidance systems this means that they would increasingly overlap with the Iskander systems.

Iskanders are organized into missile brigades of 12 units, while Smerch are organized into rocket-artillery brigades of 18. I'm wondering if, given the unpleasant budget situation, the Russian Land Forces really need two separate systems that are so close in capabilities.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Does the MRL system have nuclear munitions? Iskanders would be used for pinpoint tactical nuclear strikes against command posts and assembly areas, whereas the MRLs would be used in a conventional role for area bombardment. Regarding the budget situation, they'll probably end up retaining both systems, and won't have enough money to deploy and upgrade the systems in desired numbers.

 

[Feanor]

Does the MRL system have nuclear munitions? Iskanders would be used for pinpoint tactical nuclear strikes against command posts and assembly areas, whereas the MRLs would be used in a conventional role for area bombardment. Regarding the budget situation, they'll probably end up retaining both systems, and won't have enough money to deploy and upgrade the systems in desired numbers.

To the best of my knowledge there were no nuclear munitions produced for the Iskander so far. So that remains more of a hypothetical. The Tornado-S has no nuclear munitions at this time, and iirc neither does the current Smerch.

 

[Feanor]

Russia it testing the German Boxer APC. Two of them are undergoing trials in Russia right now, with potential local production. This follows the earlier testing of Centauro and Freccia Italian APCs, and tank destroyers.

bmpd -
*
Lenta.ru:

There are several possible explanations. One of them is that Russian MoD wants to take a look at popular foreign platforms, and learn from them. Another is that this is an attempt to pressure domestic companies to lower prices, and improve quality. Of course the last option is that they really are considering scrapping the domestic Bumerang program, and settling for an imported vehicle.

EDIT: The MoD has bought 22 German field camps, for 9.8 bln roubles (~300 mln USD). They bought two previously and have been using them. It looks like they liked it. Out of the current contract, 4 have already been delivered to Ashuluk, and two more are due there before year's end. A total of 12 will be deployed to Ashuluk.

http://twower.livejournal.com/900075.html

This might mean a fairly large purchase of MAN trucks by them as well, as at least a pair of those trucks came with one of the earlier purchased field camps.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Some more scale models of the Bumerang and Kurganets vehicles, with the Bumerang bearing an uncanny resemblance to modern Western APCs, such as the Patria AMV, Boxer and Piranha.

bmpd -

 

[Feanor]

Some more scale models of the Bumerang and Kurganets vehicles, with the Bumerang bearing an uncanny resemblance to modern Western APCs, such as the Patria AMV, Boxer and Piranha.

bmpd -

There's more here: Ðванпроекты

 

[PO2GRV]

Russian Military Police

new Russian Military Police units getting closer to full operations

article reads its main function is to fight hazing and military theft. Very pleased with the goal here as these are two of the largest stumbling blocks to a new, more professional Russian military

to Feanor (or others): do you know if the military police is limited to a specific service (eg the Army) or will it also deploy as part of other units like the Navy?