Russia to get SU-35 by 2011

Scorpion82

New Member
Its a heavilly upgraded SU-27 intended for domestic and export users. Its basicaly a totaly different beast, with a whole new avionic suite, includeing a hybrid IBRIS-E PESA radar in the 20kw peak power range, new engines, less weight, more fuel & significantly reduced RCS. Basically it would eat a baseline Su-27, its far more capable.
The lower weight is still something I would like to see confirmed by official data. The lighter electronics and materials in the airframe might save weight in the one or other area, but the typical trend of new aircraft is that they become heavier and heavier due more and more stuff is packed into them.
 

hellfire

Member
Well 116 aircraft is not bad, it still can't compete with the F-22 and F-35 but its still better than using 15-20 year old Su-27s.

Its weapons payload includes up to 12 AAMs which is comparable the the F/A-18 Super Hornet that has 14 and the F-35 which carries 10-12.
well it still should have a good chance against a F-35,
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Found it. The one about the Su-35BM is better researched. The data/information on globalsecurity for the various Flankers are obviously wrong in many ways. But nothing to blame it took me many years to figure out the various details and what appeared to be misinformation and the like.

For more information about the new Su-35 check the following links:
http://www.sukhoi.org/files/su_news_29-08-07_eng.pdf
http://www.knaapo.ru/media/News/maks2007/35_eng.zip
The Su-37 seems to be a follow-on to the Su-27/30/35 series.

http://warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=255&linkid=1607

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su37/

So where does the Su-37 fit in?
 

nevidimka

New Member
The lower weight is still something I would like to see confirmed by official data. The lighter electronics and materials in the airframe might save weight in the one or other area, but the typical trend of new aircraft is that they become heavier and heavier due more and more stuff is packed into them.
From what I know the lower weight is due to use or IRBIS-E radar which is lighter than BARS( but not sure how they stack up to the older Radar on SU27's in RuAF), Removal of Canard foreplane and Airbrake, and lighter airframe from using more composites.

But saying that, i remember reading a post from another forum saying that the weight has increased. So I'm quite confused too as to whether the SU35 managed to reduce its wieght or increase it?
 

Scorpion82

New Member
The Su-37 seems to be a follow-on to the Su-27/30/35 series.

http://warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=255&linkid=1607

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su37/

So where does the Su-37 fit in?
The Su-37 was an experimental aircraft converted from the 5th Su-27M (old Su-35) pre-production aircraft back in 1995. The aircraft was used to test the AL-31FU TVC engines, N-011M radar and a new more ergonomical and advanced cockpit design. Foreign components were used as well, but the aircraft was finally re-engined with convetional AL-31F and all foreign components were removed and replaced with russian items. The aircraft was redesignated back to Su-35 and since then the designation Su-37 itself was never used again. The aircraft doesn't exist anymore. I don't know why people still haven't learned about the Su-37 not existing anymore since 8 years.
 

Firehorse

Banned Member
Sukhoi used payments earned in the sale of an Su-27 license to China to finance the Su-37 development. Russia's Air Force has not ordered any Su-37s. Sukhoi is studying the possibility of developing a two-seat version of the Su-37 with enhanced strike capabilities.
Sukhoi Su-37- this article has info on the entire Su-27 family.

IMO, the story of Su-37 isn't over yet. It may appear later under a different designation, or some features may be incorporated into other Su-30 series variants.
 

Scorpion82

New Member
Sukhoi Su-37- this article has info on the entire Su-27 family.

IMO, the story of Su-37 isn't over yet. It may appear later under a different designation, or some features may be incorporated into other Su-30 series variants.
This article is from 1997! To make it short outdated! Many technologies of the Su-37 demonstrator has actually found their way in the variants of the Su-30MK, especially in the Su-30MKI. There will be no other Su-37!
 

F-15 Eagle

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #48
This article is from 1997! To make it short outdated! Many technologies of the Su-37 demonstrator has actually found their way in the variants of the Su-30MK, especially in the Su-30MKI. There will be no other Su-37!
As far as I know only 2 SU-37s have ever been built and one of them crashed and the other was converted to a SU-35. So the story of the SU-37 is over. Yeah that source is just a little bit outdated.
 

Scorpion82

New Member
As far as I know only 2 SU-37s have ever been built and one of them crashed and the other was converted to a SU-35. So the story of the SU-37 is over. Yeah that source is just a little bit outdated.
It was just one AFAIK. The "second Su-37" was in fact just a stock Su-35, but used for N-011M testing. It was the 6th and last pre-production aircraft (no.712). Though I'm not 100% sure, I think this aircraft was never really designated Su-37. And not even the first aircraft was "built as Su-37", it was converted and then redesignated.
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
From what I know the lower weight is due to use or IRBIS-E radar which is lighter than BARS( but not sure how they stack up to the older Radar on SU27's in RuAF), Removal of Canard foreplane and Airbrake, and lighter airframe from using more composites.

But saying that, i remember reading a post from another forum saying that the weight has increased. So I'm quite confused too as to whether the SU35 managed to reduce its wieght or increase it?
AFAIK the MTOW may indeed be higher, but the structural weight has decreased due to a lighter radar & composit materials. The total weight may have increased due to a higher avioncs payload and fuel.

hellfire said:
well it still should have a good chance against a F-35,
No way bud. The SU-35BM is an awesome platfrom, but the combination of a 3rd gen true AESA, world beating 9practically) EW/EWSP suite and real, no kidding VLO means F-35 will be a far more capable air superiority fighter. On the platform level and on the system level the F-35 will be far superior.
 

F-15 Eagle

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #51
No way bud. The SU-35BM is an awesome platfrom, but the combination of a 3rd gen true AESA, world beating 9practically) EW/EWSP suite and real, no kidding VLO means F-35 will be a far more capable air superiority fighter. On the platform level and on the system level the F-35 will be far superior.
Well said, the only fighter in the world that can stand a chance to the F-35 is the F-22. But thats pointless to talk about that becasue its not like the F-22 and the F-35 will go up against each other in war anytime soon. Unless a civil war brakes out in America or America go to war with one of its allies but luckily the chances of that ever happening is like 1 in a trillion....actually not even that, thats impossible I should say.
 

Haavarla

Active Member
Su-35BM

Source? Fact is the new Su-35 has nothing to d with the old one, I seriously doubt the "Flanker E" designation is used for this type and the AL-37F never existed and will never exist. The new Su-35 is powered by 2 article 117S engines, previously also refered to as AL-41F1A.

The Su-35BM (Bolshaya Modernizatsiya - Big Modernization), undertook alterations in its fuselage, weight, RCS, embarked avionics, radar and bombs. Originally the Su-35 project did not contemplate the adoption of canards, however during the development of the aircraft at the beginning of the 1990s, the radar was installed then in development N-011M “Bars” in a prototype of the T-10 / Su-27. At the beginning it was noticed that the extreme weight of N-011M Bars affected the center of gravity of the aircraft, the radar was much heavier than the N-001 radar of the original Su-27. This compelled the designers of the aircraft to adopt some system that supported the frontal surface of the aircraft. The solution of canards appeared to reequilibrate the center of gravity of the aircraft. It was noticed in the flight of tests of the Su-35 that canards had improved the stability of the aircraft, improved the sustentation capacity, in closed maneuvers with very great angles of attack. This change made as much “success” that was adopted in other variants of the Su-27. The down side was that it increased the aerodinamico drag in supersonic regimen and even more increased the wing area of the aircraft, which resulted in an increase of the RCS of the aircraft.

The Sukhoi-35BM is designed on the base of the engineering solutions applied for creation of the fifth-generation aircraft taking into account the experience of operation of the Su-30MK2 (Su-27SM) multipurpose aircraft family. The Su-35 combines both characteristics necessary for a modern fighter, such as: supermaneuverability, sophisticated active and passive sensor systems, high supersonic flight speed, high flight range, possibility to arrange aircraft interaction; and characteristics of a good combat aircraft, namely: high combat load, wide range of the “air-to-surface” missiles, sophisticated multichannel electronic warfare system, reduced radar observability, air-defense break capability at a low level flight.

And yes, the new AL-41F1A engine will be the new standard for new Su-35BM coming out of the Komsomolsk Factorys!
They testet the first AL-41F1A in 2004 on a Su-30, and has build some 8-10 of them by now.

The Su-35BM is powered by a pair of the new AL-41 F1A turbofans, which provide 142 to 147 kN [36,000 pounds (approx)] of thrust each. The final production engine for the PAK-FA (T-50) will be the AL-41F1 fitted - when compared with the present A version - with a new core. Having installed in the nozzles the system of 3D vectored thrust, having useful life of 6,000 hours. The TVC possesss movement of deflection in the three axes of supersonic flow with amplitude of +-15°e in the horizontal plan of +-8°, with the made deflection being in a speed of 60°/second. The movement is carried through through a mobile ring, which the supersonic nozzle is set in motion, and that is set in motion by three located hydraulical actuators around of the nozzle axle. In turn, the proper actuators are fixed in a “located fixed brace” around of the post-combustion chamber (to afterburner).
 

Haavarla

Active Member
AFAIK the MTOW may indeed be higher, but the structural weight has decreased due to a lighter radar & composit materials. The total weight may have increased due to a higher avioncs payload and fuel.



No way bud. The SU-35BM is an awesome platfrom, but the combination of a 3rd gen true AESA, world beating 9practically) EW/EWSP suite and real, no kidding VLO means F-35 will be a far more capable air superiority fighter. On the platform level and on the system level the F-35 will be far superior.

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Scorpion82

New Member
The Su-35BM (Bolshaya Modernizatsiya - Big Modernization), undertook alterations in its fuselage, weight, RCS, embarked avionics, radar and bombs. Originally the Su-35 project did not contemplate the adoption of canards, however during the development of the aircraft at the beginning of the 1990s, the radar was installed then in development N-011M “Bars” in a prototype of the T-10 / Su-27. At the beginning it was noticed that the extreme weight of N-011M Bars affected the center of gravity of the aircraft, the radar was much heavier than the N-001 radar of the original Su-27. This compelled the designers of the aircraft to adopt some system that supported the frontal surface of the aircraft. The solution of canards appeared to reequilibrate the center of gravity of the aircraft. It was noticed in the flight of tests of the Su-35 that canards had improved the stability of the aircraft, improved the sustentation capacity, in closed maneuvers with very great angles of attack. This change made as much “success” that was adopted in other variants of the Su-27. The down side was that it increased the aerodinamico drag in supersonic regimen and even more increased the wing area of the aircraft, which resulted in an increase of the RCS of the aircraft.

The Sukhoi-35BM is designed on the base of the engineering solutions applied for creation of the fifth-generation aircraft taking into account the experience of operation of the Su-30MK2 (Su-27SM) multipurpose aircraft family. The Su-35 combines both characteristics necessary for a modern fighter, such as: supermaneuverability, sophisticated active and passive sensor systems, high supersonic flight speed, high flight range, possibility to arrange aircraft interaction; and characteristics of a good combat aircraft, namely: high combat load, wide range of the “air-to-surface” missiles, sophisticated multichannel electronic warfare system, reduced radar observability, air-defense break capability at a low level flight.

And yes, the new AL-41F1A engine will be the new standard for new Su-35BM coming out of the Komsomolsk Factorys!
They testet the first AL-41F1A in 2004 on a Su-30, and has build some 8-10 of them by now.

The Su-35BM is powered by a pair of the new AL-41 F1A turbofans, which provide 142 to 147 kN [36,000 pounds (approx)] of thrust each. The final production engine for the PAK-FA (T-50) will be the AL-41F1 fitted - when compared with the present A version - with a new core. Having installed in the nozzles the system of 3D vectored thrust, having useful life of 6,000 hours. The TVC possesss movement of deflection in the three axes of supersonic flow with amplitude of +-15°e in the horizontal plan of +-8°, with the made deflection being in a speed of 60°/second. The movement is carried through through a mobile ring, which the supersonic nozzle is set in motion, and that is set in motion by three located hydraulical actuators around of the nozzle axle. In turn, the proper actuators are fixed in a “located fixed brace” around of the post-combustion chamber (to afterburner).
Apart of the fact that you didn't contribute anything new and that I don't know what exactly you want to tell me with that post, maybe you should mark the things you quote from other sources.
 

Haavarla

Active Member
Apart of the fact that you didn't contribute anything new and that I don't know what exactly you want to tell me with that post, maybe you should mark the things you quote from other sources.


......................
 
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Haavarla

Active Member
It was just one AFAIK. The "second Su-37" was in fact just a stock Su-35, but used for N-011M testing. It was the 6th and last pre-production aircraft (no.712). Though I'm not 100% sure, I think this aircraft was never really designated Su-37. And not even the first aircraft was "built as Su-37", it was converted and then redesignated.
Here is an youtube of a Su-37(no 711). Or should i say T10M-11?
This was added 10 june 2008.
I wonder if this is an older recording?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB44MZZ3u4o&feature=related"]YouTube - Actual Most Powerful Jet In The World / Anti Stealth Jet[/ame]
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Does anyone have news on the supposed SM2 modernization for the VVS Flanker fleet?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Su-35 presentation scheduled for July 7th. The new airplane supposedly will have 12 hardpoints and carry up to 8 tons of ordnance. Also thrust vectoring as a standard feature.

Here's the photo from the article.

 
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