Royal Norwegian Navy (RNoN) News and Discussion

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
I think it would be fair to say that based on the current makeup of the RNoN fleet, that while a 'Type-26' would be an ideal vessel to acquire, the cost is 'limiting'. An alternate maybe to 'buy' into the manufacturing line, have a Type-26 Hull form produced, but don't fit ALL the same kit.

I know that may sound counter-intuitive, but hear me out...

If the design is 100% identical, it costs more.

By taking some systems / equipment out / removing compartments / having systems as 'IPMD / FFBNW', it reduces the costs, the installation / fit-out / testing time & allows RNoN to fit the equipment at a later date, or actually not fit the kit at all & use the space for something else at a later date.

NEED Hull form / need the engines / gearbox / radar / command system, but DON'T fit the Missiles / CIWS / the 5 inch gun / pull thru kit from elsewhere in the fleet / Get a smaller gun (like 76mm from Leonardo) &u REDUCE overall purchase costs.

HOWEVER - do as Australia has done & change / make different from the UK Baseline design & you costs will be MORE than a baseline ship from UK.

SA

That sounds sensible - they have kit locally like Mk41 they can pull in from the hulls they're replacing etc and if gets some local work for a yard etc.

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out for sure.
 

Vivendi

Well-Known Member
I think it would be fair to say that based on the current makeup of the RNoN fleet, that while a 'Type-26' would be an ideal vessel to acquire, the cost is 'limiting'. An alternate maybe to 'buy' into the manufacturing line, have a Type-26 Hull form produced, but don't fit ALL the same kit.

I know that may sound counter-intuitive, but hear me out...

If the design is 100% identical, it costs more.

By taking some systems / equipment out / removing compartments / having systems as 'IPMD / FFBNW', it reduces the costs, the installation / fit-out / testing time & allows RNoN to fit the equipment at a later date, or actually not fit the kit at all & use the space for something else at a later date.

NEED Hull form / need the engines / gearbox / radar / command system, but DON'T fit the Missiles / CIWS / the 5 inch gun / pull thru kit from elsewhere in the fleet / Get a smaller gun (like 76mm from Leonardo) &u REDUCE overall purchase costs.

HOWEVER - do as Australia has done & change / make different from the UK Baseline design & you costs will be MORE than a baseline ship from UK.

SA
I agree that if you look at the current makeup of the RNoN fleet your proposals would make a lot of sense.

However, two things to keep in mind:

1. The current fleet was built when Russia was basically no threat, it was still recovering after the crash of the USSR, and Norway like most other European countries were slashing defence budgets right and left ("peace dividend"). Now the situation has changed dramatically. Russia has demonstrated extreme aggressiveness. and clearly want to rebuild it's empire. In addition, the US is gradually shifting focus to China, which implies less focus on Europe and potentially less military support available in the future. Norwegian analysts are very clear: Norwegian Navy in it's current state is close to useless, and must be rebuilt.

2. Norway is disgustingly rich. We have the "oil fund" which seems to just keep growing and growing. The politicians has decided that any year they should not spend more than 3% of the oil fund (some years ago the limit was 4%). If there is an emergency they could theoretically declare an emergency and use even more. Thus, unlike almost all other countries on this planet Norway can increase defence budget significantly without worrying about increasing taxes or borrowing money. A couple of years ago defence was 1.5% of GDP; this year it will be around 2% and around 2030 it will be at 3%.

Hopefully the frigates they purchase will be fully fitted with whatever missiles and guns are best meeting the needs of the RNoN. This is not the time to save money, especially when you are disgustingly rich. The "Oil Fund" is currently slightly above 17,200 billion NOK (1,630 Billion USD) and growing. How much would it be for five Type 26 off-the-shelf? :)
 

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
I agree with everything you say, Vivendi. Norway has the motivation and funds to buy good quality frigates like a fully-specced Type 26. 3% of the oil fund would be about $49 billion. That's a huge amount of money that can be drawn down for increased spending.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Vard is proposing the Constellation class for the RNoN, a rather optimistic proposal IMO given the progress to date in the US. T26, albeit more expensive or maybe not given the number of design changes, is a better sub hunter and there are three allied navies investing in T26. A fleet of over 30 T26s is likely, especially if Norway joins in.

 

Meriv90

Active Member
Not flame intention, but what does the T26 platform has over the FREMM ASW in regards to sub hunting?

Surely british tradition on sub hunting is without peers but on the hardware side?
 

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
Not flame intention, but what does the T26 platform has over the FREMM ASW in regards to sub hunting?

Surely british tradition on sub hunting is without peers but on the hardware side?
Because it's the Constellation-class, not FREMM. They're essentially two different ships now, because the USN made so many changes to the design. It's not ASW-focused, more a general frigate that tries to do everything - lots of missiles, powerful radar, etc.

The C-class has been a problem child. The first ship was only laid down this year, and is way behind schedule. If Norway wants to go with it, fine, but given the project is still in its early days it would be high risk.

It would also mean much later deliveries, because Vard is currently not prepared to do the work. It would be years before they could start production, even if they won a contract. Whereas the Type 26 is being built right now. Supposedly Norway wants the first ship sooner rather than later.
 
Last edited:

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Not flame intention, but what does the T26 platform has over the FREMM ASW in regards to sub hunting?

Surely british tradition on sub hunting is without peers but on the hardware side?
26 has very good quieting measures - measures which informally I've been told come close to an SSN - not sure how accurate that it is of course, but it is supposed to be quieter than most platforms available, Additionally, the machinery has all been de-risked in on-shore facility several years ago, which the Constellation program has yet to do. Also, the Type 26 in RN hands, is a mature design, and ships are being built to that design.


If Norway went the route of the Type 26, it's in production, with a local yard and could be put into service with modest changes.
 
Top