Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
To be fair though, the USN does still have an active duty frigate that is some 227 years old and is a special duty assignment.

It have been my impression though that the Sea King/Sea King replacement debacle was actually the handiwork of a couple of PM's. One of decided to cancel the replacement ordered by his immediate predecessor's gov't (at a cost of some CAN$500 mil. in contract penalties IIRC), and then his successor's gov't delayed the actual replacement further, as well as likely having put a 'finger on the scale' to tip the decision on what the final replacement would be.
Towards the end of Chrétien’s reign, Martin despised him. The Cyclone choice was most likely forced upon Martin by Chrétien loyalists in the Liberal party. Some blame for the delay is on Martin who as finance minister at the time claimed money wasn’t available until later.
 

Sender

Active Member
By bad, just so happy to see a purchase I stopped reading at the end of the headline! 14 works for me.
The announcement on the Hill Times (paywall restricted) had words to the effect that it was expected the government would exercise the option for other aircraft at a later date, making it seem likely the remaining 2 would come in a future lot. Probably some kind of cash management exercise to push some of the cost further out. The CAF is famous for doing that. The project budget is funded for 16, so I expect there will be a follow on announcement in a few years, but regardless, this announcement is good news. Combined with the 11 MQ-9Bs, these purchases represent a huge increase in capability.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The announcement on the Hill Times (paywall restricted) had words to the effect that it was expected the government would exercise the option for other aircraft at a later date, making it seem likely the remaining 2 would come in a future lot. Probably some kind of cash management exercise to push some of the cost further out. The CAF is famous for doing that. The project budget is funded for 16, so I expect there will be a follow on announcement in a few years, but regardless, this announcement is good news. Combined with the 11 MQ-9Bs, these purchases represent a huge increase in capability.
Absolutely agree even if the extra two don’t happen. Hopefully the other two happen though. Funding for this and other kit are always vulnerable to cuts by pollies for electoral needs but the geopolitical realities are slowly beginning to sink in and this tactic will be increasingly difficult to sell to even our electorate.
 

Terran

Well-Known Member

CF155 the Hawk trainer is officially retired. This means that for the interim the Canadian Air Force will train fast jet jockeys in foreign countries.
Eventually they will have to buy new trainers. Top picks are Either T50 Golden Eagles from South Korea or Boeing/Saab T7 Red Hawks.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group

CF155 the Hawk trainer is officially retired. This means that for the interim the Canadian Air Force will train fast jet jockeys in foreign countries.
Eventually they will have to buy new trainers. Top picks are Either T50 Golden Eagles from South Korea or Boeing/Saab T7 Red Hawks.

This article indicates the trainer replacement will be yet another C-F by the brain trust running military procurement. Hard to disagree IMHO.

Jamie Sarkonak: The Armed Forces' inability to replace equipment leaves Canada vulnerable (msn.com)
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
This article indicates the trainer replacement will be yet another C-F by the brain trust running military procurement. Hard to disagree IMHO.

Jamie Sarkonak: The Armed Forces' inability to replace equipment leaves Canada vulnerable (msn.com)
Seems an odd decision on so many levels. First of all the Hawks aren’t that old. I don’t know how heavily used they have been but when you look at how long other countries have been using their Hawks it seems like they should be able to get more than 24 years.

Secondly pilot training is important, One of the main roles of an airforce in peacetime is to train pilots. For an airforce to essentially lose the ability to train personnel without the aid of foreign nations represents a huge loss of sovereignty.

Not sure I am even seeing how any real money is being saved. If anything they are probably paying a big premium for using other airforces aircraft. Plus of course I suspect we aren’t taking huge amounts of money compared to other parts of the defence budget.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Seems an odd decision on so many levels. First of all the Hawks aren’t that old. I don’t know how heavily used they have been but when you look at how long other countries have been using their Hawks it seems like they should be able to get more than 24 years.

Secondly pilot training is important, One of the main roles of an airforce in peacetime is to train pilots. For an airforce to essentially lose the ability to train personnel without the aid of foreign nations represents a huge loss of sovereignty.

Not sure I am even seeing how any real money is being saved. If anything they are probably paying a big premium for using other airforces aircraft. Plus of course I suspect we aren’t taking huge amounts of money compared to other parts of the defence budget.
Not really, not when one looks at the situation. The RCAF Hawks entered service in 2000 IIRC, so they have been in service for ~24 years already, and I believe they were designed to have 25-30 year service lives. Going by the RAAF Hawk 127 (the RCAF operate Hawk 115), Australia did start looking at replacing or upgrading their Hawk LIF's starting around 2012 and I do recall there being reports of cracks being found in the Australian Hawk airframes. Canada also started an initial look at replacing the Canadian Hawks around the same time.

Secondly, these being trainer aircraft, I would not be surprised if they sometimes acquire more flight hours faster, and/or suffer 'harder' flight hours because they are trainers. This is also a situation where numbers could matter, with the RCAF having 22 Hawks vs. the RAAF's 33. I personally have no idea which service is having their Hawks acquire flight hours faster or if they are doing it at comparable rates, but by having fewer in service aircraft, potential availability issues could be starting to creep in, particularly given the age of the aircraft.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Agree the Hawks are worn out (RCAF would know this in advance ) which should have triggered a replacement plan years ago yet as the Sarkonak article mentions military procurement fails again.
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Agree the Hawks are worn out (RCAF would know this in advance ) which should have triggered a replacement plan years ago yet as the Sarkonak article mentions military procurement fails again.
Perhaps your PM was planning to do a Hellen Clark on your combat aircraft.;)
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
The RAAF Hawks are around the same age as the Canadian Aircraft. Recently the RAAF entered a $1.5 billion, 10-year contract will extend the life of its 33 Hawks though to 2032. The RAAF Hawks are estimated to have flown around 122,000 flying hours which works out at just under 4000 flight hours for each aircraft.

By comparison the Canadian Hawks are definitely harder working having accumulated 75,000 flying hours in the last 10 years alone. That would suggest the Canadian Hawks have already flown around twice the hours of the Australian version.

The Hawks have a fatigue life of around 10,000 hours so yes the RCAF Hawks are definitely in their Autumn years.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
The RAAF Hawks are around the same age as the Canadian Aircraft. Recently the RAAF entered a $1.5 billion, 10-year contract will extend the life of its 33 Hawks though to 2032. The RAAF Hawks are estimated to have flown around 122,000 flying hours which works out at just under 4000 flight hours for each aircraft.

By comparison the Canadian Hawks are definitely harder working having accumulated 75,000 flying hours in the last 10 years alone. That would suggest the Canadian Hawks have already flown around twice the hours of the Australian version.

The Hawks have a fatigue life of around 10,000 hours so yes the RCAF Hawks are definitely in their Autumn years.
One of the other things I came across (still trying to confirm if accurate) is that the Hawk 120-series aircraft had some design changes to their wings, fuselage and tail to increase fatigue life when compared to older Hawk aircraft. Given that the RCAF Hawks are 115, then it does appear that any replacement LIFT the RCAF ends up getting, should have been ordered a decade ago, if not more.
 

Vanquish

Member

From page 25

"To detect and manage airborne threats, we will
acquire airborne early warning aircraft. These
aircraft detect aircraft and missiles at long ranges in
real time and from much further away than groundbased
radars, and then manage the battle space in
response to a threat."

I'm not sure what they are referring to here. Is this in reference to the announced purchase of the MQ-9B SkyGuardian or a future requisition of something like the E-7 Wedgetail?
 
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