Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions

Bluey 006

Member
As there seems to be no RCAF thread, I will start one. Today's Ottawa Citizen is reporting the RCAF is looking at a combination of Predators and Avengers to meet Canada's drone needs.

A Predator C Avenger drone for the RCAF? | Ottawa Citizen
I am surprised that there isn't more interest in the Predator C (Avenger). I understand why the US wouldn't go for it as they have an existing predator A & B fleets and high end UAVs but for countries looking it acquire a new capability - why wouldn't you?

Hopefully the RAAF gives it some consideration...
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Hi John

Any idea when they are going to figure out the replacement fighter project yet?
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
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Hi John

Any idea when they are going to figure out the replacement fighter project yet?
Nothing will happen until after the election this coming October. The Conservatives will likely loose their majority or worse the NDP might form the next government. Either way, it means delay and possibly a wrong choice.
 

Delta204

Member
As there seems to be no RCAF thread, I will start one. Today's Ottawa Citizen is reporting the RCAF is looking at a combination of Predators and Avengers to meet Canada's drone needs.QUOTE]

The Predator C / Avenger seems to have had the interest of folks in the RCAF for some time, but apparently the civilian overlords at the DND have been leery about the politics of buying stealthy armed drones... not very Canadian eh! So it'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.

Regarding the RCAF in general, the now 10+ years and counting program to replace it's fixed-wing SAR capability is probably the only procurement that is high on the defense spending shopping list; and will likely be the only new aircraft the RCAF will see for some time.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
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As there seems to be no RCAF thread, I will start one. Today's Ottawa Citizen is reporting the RCAF is looking at a combination of Predators and Avengers to meet Canada's drone needs.QUOTE]

The Predator C / Avenger seems to have had the interest of folks in the RCAF for some time, but apparently the civilian overlords at the DND have been leery about the politics of buying stealthy armed drones... not very Canadian eh! So it'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.

Regarding the RCAF in general, the now 10+ years and counting program to replace it's fixed-wing SAR capability is probably the only procurement that is high on the defense spending shopping list; and will likely be the only new aircraft the RCAF will see for some time.
Yes, it seems there is finely some movement on th FWSAR front. It will be interesting to see if LM offers the C-130J for this role. The RCAF favours the C-27 and it is a great aircraft and would be preferable to the C-295 as it has more speed but as we have a C-130J fleet already and are currently using H's in this role, the J's have merit.

I think the predator/avenger package might be easier to move forward than the F-35.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
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The RCAF has received the first 6 CH-148 Cyclones. The much delayed maritime helicopter program still will have to wait for upgrades to make these units fully compliant to agreed upon specifications. The total order will be 28 units.

The transmission run-dry spec for 30 minutes has been met. This feature was not available in the cilivian S-92 that crashed in Newfoundland several years ago. The Cyclone was derived from the military version of this helicopter (H-92).
 

John Fedup

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Justin Trudeau, leader of Canada's Liberal party, announced he will rule out a F-35 purchase and put the money into the RCN. This announcement was made in an election stopover in Halifax, NS where Irving shipyards will build future(distant) naval ships. Turd Jr., just as big a POS as his old man was! If this idiot gets elected expect a surge of Canadian Forces members to be applying to Commonwealth forces for a job.
 
Justin Trudeau, leader of Canada's Liberal party, announced he will rule out a F-35 purchase and put the money into the RCN. This announcement was made in an election stopover in Halifax, NS where Irving shipyards will build future(distant) naval ships. Turd Jr., just as big a POS as his old man was! If this idiot gets elected expect a surge of Canadian Forces members to be applying to Commonwealth forces for a job.
I could be wrong but the captain of Hmas Canberra is an ex Canadian? Saddler I think his name is......
 

ngatimozart

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Justin Trudeau, leader of Canada's Liberal party, announced he will rule out a F-35 purchase and put the money into the RCN. This announcement was made in an election stopover in Halifax, NS where Irving shipyards will build future(distant) naval ships. Turd Jr., just as big a POS as his old man was! If this idiot gets elected expect a surge of Canadian Forces members to be applying to Commonwealth forces for a job.
Well the current lot have managed so far to avoid making a decision on the F35. Procrastination 101 methinks. They will have to make a decision sometime soon, before the sun expands and then shrinks back to a white dwarf. So they have about 12 billion years in which to make that decision :D
 

Joe Black

Active Member
Justin Trudeau, leader of Canada's Liberal party, announced he will rule out a F-35 purchase and put the money into the RCN. This announcement was made in an election stopover in Halifax, NS where Irving shipyards will build future(distant) naval ships. Turd Jr., just as big a POS as his old man was! If this idiot gets elected expect a surge of Canadian Forces members to be applying to Commonwealth forces for a job.
I kindly agree with him that the F-35 would be the wrong plane for CAF. Personally, I think the Super Hornets or Typhoons (God Forbid) are probably a better choice for them. I favour a twin engine jets as Canada has a vast area of land for the AF to cover. I know the argument about the reliability of modern jet engines and how single jet has equal accident rate as twin engines, blah blah.. but if I were a CAF pilot, I would go with a twin engine jet anytime if I have to fly up North and anywhere near the arctic.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
I kindly agree with him that the F-35 would be the wrong plane for CAF. Personally, I think the Super Hornets or Typhoons (God Forbid) are probably a better choice for them. I favour a twin engine jets as Canada has a vast area of land for the AF to cover. I know the argument about the reliability of modern jet engines and how single jet has equal accident rate as twin engines, blah blah.. but if I were a CAF pilot, I would go with a twin engine jet anytime if I have to fly up North and anywhere near the arctic.
You could transfer those thoughts to the RAAF and change the Artic circle to the red centre, both have there extremes of temp, Artic patrol are only one aspect of operational needs they also have treaty obligations within Europe via NATO and may be called upon for a variety of diffrent operations, better to hold the ace than the joker
 

ngatimozart

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You could transfer those thoughts to the RAAF and change the Artic circle to the red centre, both have there extremes of temp, Artic patrol are only one aspect of operational needs they also have treaty obligations within Europe via NATO and may be called upon for a variety of diffrent operations, better to hold the ace than the joker
But that would have been taken into account during the assessment phase of the project by the Au DoD. Whilst I acknowledge the advantage of twin engines, they are not then be all to end all.

Regarding the Typhoon, it's not that much of a dog when Luftwaffe Typhoons are able to catch and "shoot down" F22s in air combat exercises. So it does have its advantages. I believe that it has a very high thrust to weight ratio. It's just the price tag that is coronary inducing.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
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But that would have been taken into account during the assessment phase of the project by the Au DoD. Whilst I acknowledge the advantage of twin engines, they are not then be all to end all.

Regarding the Typhoon, it's not that much of a dog when Luftwaffe Typhoons are able to catch and "shoot down" F22s in air combat exercises. So it does have its advantages. I believe that it has a very high thrust to weight ratio. It's just the price tag that is coronary inducing.
I'm sympathetic to the first half - not so inclined to use the last half as an indicator as it gets back to the age old issue of DACT and the taskings for those assets on the day.

F117's were called dogs because they were able to be tracked by Rapier2's over Farnborough - and for all the experienced participants on the forum they would immediately be saying "whats wrong with that picture" - especially if they've read "Bandits over Bagdhad" or read some of the DSTO and DARPA pubs on LO :)management ......
 

Goknub

Member
Considering Canada's position it could be argued that a Super Hornet fleet would be "good enough" for their requirements.

They are in a far more secure position than Australia so a decent fleet of general purpose strike aircraft able to rapidly integrate into NATO air campaigns would be the most logical option. A mixed fleet of F-18E/F (possibly even G?) should be cheaper than an equivalent F-35 fleet and be of sufficient quality to last for a few decades.

Of course they could become America's New Zealand and scrap their combat aircraft altogether.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Considering Canada's position it could be argued that a Super Hornet fleet would be "good enough" for their requirements.

They are in a far more secure position than Australia so a decent fleet of general purpose strike aircraft able to rapidly integrate into NATO air campaigns would be the most logical option. A mixed fleet of F-18E/F (possibly even G?) should be cheaper than an equivalent F-35 fleet and be of sufficient quality to last for a few decades.

Of course they could become America's New Zealand and scrap their combat aircraft altogether.
canada is a good example of what happens when you keep on deferring purchases as way tp manage domestic budgets - and the realise far too late that the threat that was not forseeable (and thus rge excuse to delay acquisitions) has jus come back to bite you on the bum

"all of a sudden" they've now realised that russias continental shelf claims are now a latent territorial threat - and they have a neutered navy and an aging airforce which in real terms is not up to the new threat.

there's a lesson there for everyone - and for canada it means that to mitigate the problems and emergent risks that they really have to stay in lockstep with the US on the broader platform acquisition issues

to paraphrase....there but for the grace of god.......
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
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canada is a good example of what happens when you keep on deferring purchases as way tp manage domestic budgets - and the realise far too late that the threat that was not forseeable (and thus rge excuse to delay acquisitions) has jus come back to bite you on the bum

"all of a sudden" they've now realised that russias continental shelf claims are now a latent territorial threat - and they have a neutered navy and an aging airforce which in real terms is not up to the new threat.

there's a lesson there for everyone - and for canada it means that to mitigate the problems and emergent risks that they really have to stay in lockstep with the US on the broader platform acquisition issues




to paraphrase....there but for the grace of god.......
GF, you have hit the nail on the head. The numerous deferrals on military procurement are what have got us in this deep hole. Add in the weak economy and our collapsing dollar and we now have colossal a fluster cuck.

The F-35 haters here are so full of it. One moment they are critizing the F-35's single engine and in the next moment they are praising the cost advantages of the single engine Grippen. They BS about the seamless next to free transition from legacy Hornets to Superhornets (the likely choice for NDP/Liberals). There is zero understanding about the numerous technological advances the F-35 brings to the table. The only feature talked about is stealth and even that is distorted to complete BS.

If I was LM, I would be talking about the 700 million dollars in contract work to date that Canadian companies have received and how that will disappear for the future 2500-3000+ jets that will follow should Canada decide against the F-35.
 
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