Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Volkodav]

I highly doubt that the Goalkeepers could be used in place of the Phalanx, or at least not without some fairly major modifications. The RAN's Phalanx CIWS are non-deck penetrating so they can be basically just plugged/unplugged and swapped between vessels, as long as the reinforced deck mounting/plate and connections are available. The 30 mm Goalkeeper is a much larger system which is deck penetrating so if a Chile were to attempt to fit it to the ex-RAN frigates, it would either have to be in place of the 76 mm gun, or a hole through a deck would need to be cut and underlying compartments and perhaps structure would need to be re-arranged to accommodate the Goalkeeper.

I'm happy to stand corrected as I don't have any first hand experience with the OHP FFGs, but I understand there is a compartment below the Phalanx that serves as the action station for the Greenie assigned to support the Phalanx. I am also aware that the PFG (FFG precursor design) and the original iterations of the FFG that evolved from it, had a twin 35mm in the location that now has the Phalanx, and that this mount was closer in size and weight to the Goalkeeper.

Like I said, I am happy to be corrected but there is possibly space and weight for the bigger system and some deck penetration

 

[Bob53]

I was interested to see the US navy possible accelerating its frigate purchase. Navy Eyes Hiring Two Shipyards To Build Its New Frigates As It Tries To Speed Up Procurement

My question is was there any reason the Type 26 was not in the final shortlist? It would of been a great advantage to have a large group of common ship designs across many of our Allied Navies and given the RAN a significant boost with scale and maintenance options not to mention huge saving in R&D on new weapons.

 

[Redlands18]

I was interested to see the US navy possible accelerating its frigate purchase. Navy Eyes Hiring Two Shipyards To Build Its New Frigates As It Tries To Speed Up Procurement

My question is was there any reason the Type 26 was not in the final shortlist? It would of been a great advantage to have a large group of common ship designs across many of our Allied Navies and given the RAN a significant boost with scale and maintenance options not to mention huge saving in R&D on new weapons.

The 4 contenders are all based on Ships already in the water, Spanish F-101, Italian Fremm, Independence class LCS and while not officially confirmed, the National Security Cutter. They Type 26 was supposedly rejected for not being in the water yet.
The interesting thing here is the first 2 are significantly larger at 6-7000t than the latter 2 at 3-4000t, so it’s going to be a very interesting project to see the outcome.

 

[Todjaeger]

I was interested to see the US navy possible accelerating its frigate purchase. Navy Eyes Hiring Two Shipyards To Build Its New Frigates As It Tries To Speed Up Procurement

My question is was there any reason the Type 26 was not in the final shortlist? It would of been a great advantage to have a large group of common ship designs across many of our Allied Navies and given the RAN a significant boost with scale and maintenance options not to mention huge saving in R&D on new weapons.

Here is the relevant text from the article which answers your question.

The service wants to buy at least 20 of these ships, which are to be derivatives of an existing in-production design, and had previously said that it would pick a winner in July 2020

The USN's FFG(X) programme has as one of it's requirements that design submissions had to be sourced from existing, in production designs. The USN's RFI for the FFG(X) programme was issued the same month that the first steel was cut for the first Type 26 frigate, which means that at the time the programme started it was a design, but had no existing ships and depending on the specific date, there might not have been any production started either. On further checking, it appears the RFI was issued 10 July, while first steel was not cut until 20 July.

In short, it was a paper design at the time the programme started and it still does not have a vessel in the water, never mind on active service.

 

[BPFP]

I was interested to see the US navy possible accelerating its frigate purchase. Navy Eyes Hiring Two Shipyards To Build Its New Frigates As It Tries To Speed Up Procurement

My question is was there any reason the Type 26 was not in the final shortlist? It would of been a great advantage to have a large group of common ship designs across many of our Allied Navies and given the RAN a significant boost with scale and maintenance options not to mention huge saving in R&D on new weapons.

Interesting that the cited article contemplates a split of the 20 ship order into two batches of 10, with the possibility of a new design for the second batch. By that time presumably the T26 design would be in service and thus eligible. Along with this, the speculative suggestion that the program might be expanded by a further 15 hulls (for a total of 35).

 

[ngatimozart]

Interesting that the cited article contemplates a split of the 20 ship order into two batches of 10, with the possibility of a new design for the second batch. By that time presumably the T26 design would be in service and thus eligible. Along with this, the speculative suggestion that the program might be expanded by a further 15 hulls (for a total of 35).

We won't hold our breath. To much can change between now and then. The Congress critters will do their pork barrelling as well.

 

[toryu]

Defence has put up some great pictures of HMAS Arafura's two hull halves being put together at the ASC yard. The pictures give the first good sense of scale, for the hull as a whole and also some of the internal spaces. Gallery here:

http://images.defence.gov.au/S20201593

Caption:

In a further milestone for the Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV) program, the two halves of the first of class ship, Arafura, built by Luerssen Australia and its partner ASC have been brought together and welded to form a complete hull.

In what was the largest block move in the history of the Osborne Naval Shipyard and a considerable engineering feat, Australian Naval Infrastructure’s (ANI) operations team manoeuvred the two mega-blocks together, with only millimetres between them.

 

[John Fedup]

Here is the relevant text from the article which answers your question.



The USN's FFG(X) programme has as one of it's requirements that design submissions had to be sourced from existing, in production designs. The USN's RFI for the FFG(X) programme was issued the same month that the first steel was cut for the first Type 26 frigate, which means that at the time the programme started it was a design, but had no existing ships and depending on the specific date, there might not have been any production started either. On further checking, it appears the RFI was issued 10 July, while first steel was not cut until 20 July.

In short, it was a paper design at the time the programme started and it still does not have a vessel in the water, never mind on active service.

The CSC program originally required a proven design but the RCN saw the advantages of the T26 and it got on the bid list. I am sure some in the USN feel the same way but the over-riding specification was a $800-900 million price tag hence the T26 was DOA.

 

[spoz]

The first couple of sections of superstructure have now been added; that photo is two or three weeks old.

 

[ASSAIL]

ASC are certainly starting to move things along, the second OPV “Eyre” has had its official keel laying only 21 days ago or at least that’s the report date.
Maybe Spoz can confirm?

ASC Shipbuilding laid keel of Australia's 2nd Arafura-class OPV - Naval News

 

[spoz]

Yes, the first keel block is the right way up in the assembly building; they had a sort of virtual keel laying ceremony with CN on the video and Steve Tiffen doing the actual placing of the coin and the like - not that I was there, but that's the report.

I'm impressed with what I've seen so far; they should be a very capable platform.

 

[Stampede]

ASC are certainly starting to move things along, the second OPV “Eyre” has had its official keel laying only 21 days ago or at least that’s the report date.
Maybe Spoz can confirm?

ASC Shipbuilding laid keel of Australia's 2nd Arafura-class OPV - Naval News

Thanks for the Pics and update......................very positive.


Two questions.

Does the overall length of 80 m include the boat boarding platform off the stern?

Also some clarity re accommodation............... I assume there is accommodation for the 40 crew; but as to the suggestion the ship can to carry up to 60 pax ,is this additional accommodation integral to the ship or provided by the two shipping containers held under the flight deck?

Thanks and regards S

 

[SteveR]

And the Attack class type design the Suffren is now at sea:

Submarine Suffren Begin Sea Trials

Edit to add another report of the same event:

French Navy SSN 'Suffren' Performs Static Dive Test as Part of Initial Sea Trials - Naval News

The French Navy (Marine Nationale)'s first-in-class nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) "Suffren" successfully completed its static dive test on April 28. The important procedure marks the start of sea trials for the Barracuda program.

www.navalnews.com

 

[ASSAIL]

Thanks for the Pics and update......................very positive.


Two questions.

Does the overall length of 80 m include the boat boarding platform off the stern?

Also some clarity re accommodation............... I assume there is accommodation for the 40 crew; but as to the suggestion the ship can to carry up to 60 pax ,is this additional accommodation integral to the ship or provided by the two shipping containers held under the flight deck?


Thanks and regards S

Length has a number of iterations and is not specified in material I have read.
LOA -length overall is measured from the extremes.
Length PtoP is length between the ships perpendiculars, or
Measured Length is a regulatory length roughly equivalent to the length of the main deck but does not include angled bulwarks.
The 60 berth capacity is normal accommodation fitted.
The containers on the FLT deck could have multiple uses but the most likely is for storage of the UAV and it’s operating systems.
Remember 20ft Containers can also be stored on the main deck under the FLT deck.
Alexsa or Spoz can maybe be more specific on your length query.

 

[Stampede]

Length has a number of iterations and is not specified in material I have read.
LOA -length overall is measured from the extremes.
Length PtoP is length between the ships perpendiculars, or
Measured Length is a regulatory length roughly equivalent to the length of the main deck but does not include angled bulwarks.
The 60 berth capacity is normal accommodation fitted.
The containers on the FLT deck could have multiple uses but the most likely is for storage of the UAV and it’s operating systems.
Remember 20ft Containers can also be stored on the main deck under the FLT deck.
Alexsa or Spoz can maybe be more specific on your length query.

Thanks Assail

I'm mindful there are a number of measurements involved.
Would be interested as to what the oft quoted 80 m actually refers to.

Glad 60 berths is integral to the vessel.
I'm sure those additional 20 berths will often be used as will the flexible space found within the two containers.


Thanks and Regards S

 

[spoz]

Length OA is 80 metres; that is from the forward tip of the bow to extreme end of the stern extension. Length PP is a little over 70 metres.

The additional 20 fitted berths above the complement are called "austere"; that can be read as not providing as much personal space on messdecks but otherwise similar to the junior sailors. Be still regarded as "luxury" by those who inhabited the after seaman's mess of the last generation of DDG

 

[pgclift]

You can get a visual idea of Arafura’s length from the attached photo which appeared on the Department of Defence imagery page showing the joining of the Arafura’s 2 hull blocks. The narrative says it was Osborne’s largest block lift.

So between the hull joining of the Arafura and the keel laying of Eyre it appears that steady progress is being made on the OPV program.

 

[aussienscale]

Length OA is 80 metres; that is from the forward tip of the bow to extreme end of the stern extension. Length PP is a little over 70 metres.

The additional 20 fitted berths above the complement are called "austere"; that can be read as not providing as much personal space on messdecks but otherwise similar to the junior sailors. Be still regarded as "luxury" by those who inhabited the after seaman's mess of the last generation of DDG

Yeah good ol 163 mess, was luxury when we got the lift up bunks with storage under them rather than the pie trays

We appreciate the insights, thanks Spoz

 

[Stampede]

Length OA is 80 metres; that is from the forward tip of the bow to extreme end of the stern extension. Length PP is a little over 70 metres.

The additional 20 fitted berths above the complement are called "austere"; that can be read as not providing as much personal space on messdecks but otherwise similar to the junior sailors. Be still regarded as "luxury" by those who inhabited the after seaman's mess of the last generation of DDG

Thanks Spoz for the clarity
Was quietly hoping a couple of extra meters of the boat boarding ramp were gained over and above the Length OA.


Regards S

 

[StingrayOZ]

Thanks Spoz for the clarity
Was quietly hoping a couple of extra meters of the boat boarding ramp were gained over and above the Length OA.


Regards S

Still, hard to be disappointed, they do look a just a little bigger than the Armidales. I hope the 20 room accommodation is much more effective than on the Armidales. It would be good to be able to use that capability.