Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
- Thread starter OPSSG
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I would reserve Keating and Turnbull for the SSNs because I know it would really piss them off.
downunderblue
Active Member
Maybe not. Whilst they may disagree with their purchase, to see something as impressive as they are named in 'their' honor will satsify something vastly more important to either, that being ego and legacy, which is a good way to keep them quiet(er) and in context a brilliant idea IMO.
I think we should have a rule that says politicians may only have their name attached to patrol boats.
That way they can have some experience with hard work without glory, with no cameras in sight.
More seriously on naming, Australia has a history of avoiding using people, for good reason. I think (tell me if I'm wrong) we only ever deviated from this for the Collins submarines.
I believe that ship name choices are part of our fundamental military licence to operate. We must always be seen to act and protect the community, not individuals.
Naming after people is hazardous, as it can become polarising, either views that somebody else was more deserving, it's too bias to a particular group, or that person is associated with a problematic view or action.
Politicians are a terrible choice, as regardless of who it is, part of the community will always have an automatic aversion to the name and it instantly becomes divisive.
Using places is far less volatile, and it links broad communities, rather than individuals, to the defence force. Choosing a city, river, mountain, harbour or other notable geographic feature is rarely ever controversial.
It might be boring, but that is not the requirement.
I believe that ship name choices are part of our fundamental military licence to operate. We must always be seen to act and protect the community, not individuals.
Naming after people is hazardous, as it can become polarising, either views that somebody else was more deserving, it's too bias to a particular group, or that person is associated with a problematic view or action.
Politicians are a terrible choice, as regardless of who it is, part of the community will always have an automatic aversion to the name and it instantly becomes divisive.
Using places is far less volatile, and it links broad communities, rather than individuals, to the defence force. Choosing a city, river, mountain, harbour or other notable geographic feature is rarely ever controversial.
It might be boring, but that is not the requirement.
I question the value of the Phalanx these days with directed energy stations with unlimited 'ammo' now in production. Larger calibre cannons with dual feeds (air burst, AP, etc) also provide more options at a far greater range as well as their own built in surveillance capabilities.
RAN should be looking at other options to the Typhoon mount too, as there's plenty of better systems out there including home grown ones.
SeaRAM provides a similar number of engagements to the Millennium but they would obviously work better together in the layered approach.
Japan will likely to order the NSM for their F-35s (JSM has already been ordered).
Initial announcement Conroy stated the frigates would have the full suite of strike length missiles integrated (SM 2/6, tomahawk), makes sense considering both navies have them as well as the NSM in the future.
As I understand it mine warfare capability was not a factor in the selection and there's no plan yet to make use of that capability. Although it's a useful option in the future.
Japanese articles suggest that the intention for the original Mogami class is to rely on the SeaRAM for air defence and all 16 VLS now for Type 07 VLA. Although there was originally consideration for the use of their new Type 23 SAM that's now planned for only the new FFMs
Aside from the Collins class there is also HMAS Choules, Creswell, Cook, Banks, Bass, Flinders, Moresby and going further back there's colonial vessels such as HMVS Victoria, Albert, Lonsdale, Childers and Countess of Hopetoun. Beyond that there's the submarine rescue ships MV Besant and Stoker each named after Australia's WW1 submarine captains and of course in a similar vein the Tribal class destroyers Warramunga and Arunta are named after groups of people. The first three Hunters will add to this list among other examples I didn't mention but can if need be.
I'd never suggest the use of politicians as ship namesakes to be clear. It would entirely defeat the point of using a person's name as they should be a worthy role model for the ship's company. I think they succeeded in that way for the Collins class and Creswell although the Hunter class names are much more questionable and really ought to be relegated to survey vessels only if they must be used at all.
I agree on the point of using city and town names and how it links with communities although there is less such value in rivers and mountains. I think so long as the right names are chosen like on the Collins class, and I strongly believe there are enough out there, there would be more gained by bringing forward the inspirational actions of previous sailors and officers through their names than any minor controversy that would result among the small portion of the public who would care enough to do a full analysis of their personal flaws or ideology, of which there shouldn't be any major to begin with if they're being considered. I'm sure many would disagree with me and I'd be happy to hear their response to this.
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i agree with the post but apart from Choules the Hunter class (at least the first three) are also named after people (With some of the associated problems mentioned).
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
That's GOLD!!!!
Valid point, I forgot those. I'm going to pretend that Hunter is named after the Hunter Valley, Flinders after Flinders Island, and Tasman after that strange little island off Victoria.
I am certain this will trigger someone to respond.
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I think I saw an article that said that. It surprised me.
A sole SeaRAM might be fine for peacetime, however its at best a final self defence system, and a bit of a hail mary in a hot situation. The USN litoral combat ships came under fire (metaphorically) for having this same self defence strategy.
I would have thought a partial loadout with VLA would be expected on the classic Mogamis, (say 6-8 units), but 16 seems overkill.
On that point I'm wondering if we will pick up the VLA with our Mogamis. It will add to the ever increasing number of different torpedoes we will have in our fleet.
OK OK, I surrender. There are lots of Australian ships named after people.
For the record I had to go and research Countess of Hopetoun.