Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[MARKMILES77]

The US Govt tendering website has revealed the US Navy wants to turn the P8A basically into a long range bomber with the capability to deliver LRASM(JASSM-ER) SDB, JDAM and probably Laser Guided Weapons. Gives you (with JASSM-ER) the ability to hit targets close to 5000km away or alternatively to have a plane capable of precision strike with 10+ hours persistance above a battlefield.
Would imagine the RAAF would look seriously at the same upgrade as well.
Raises the question, would adding the Litening pod to the P8, as is being trialed with the C-130J by the RAAF, be useful for this or is the current electro-optical/laser designation capabilities adequate to fully exploit those weapons.

The Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR), PMA-290 (Program Office for P-8A aircraft), is soliciting information from industry to determine potential contractors who have the skills, experience, qualifications, and knowledge required to perform aeromechanical and software integration of the Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM) onto the P-8A aircraft, with the potential to include, but not limited to, the following additional weapon systems: 500 lb to 2,000 lb class of Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) variants, Mk62/63/65 mines, Small Diameter Bomb (SDB-II), Miniature Air Launched Decoy (MALD), Bomb Rack Unit BRU-55, and Universal Armament Interface (UAI).

beta.SAM.gov

 

[MARKMILES77]

Well there you go.
US announces intergration of LRASM with P8A and a couple of days later a sale of 200 to Australia looks likely.

US Approves Nearly $1Bil Anti-Ship Missile Sale to Australia | DefenceTalk

 

[MARKMILES77]

Might also indicate it will be the anti_ship missile for the Hunter Class?

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Might also indicate it will be the anti_ship missile for the Hunter Class?

Simply, no.
The only vehicle in Australian military possession capable of using the AGM-158C are their Super Hornets. Plus, the AGM-158Cs and associated hardware & equipment ordered are only capable of use in an air launched role.
Additionally, there is no such thing as a ship/surface launched production LRASM.
Now, if the US Navy ever successfully develops the hardware & software, then qualifies the missiles for use on P-8s the RAAF may acquire such a capability.
My recommendation considering this decade long "rapid acquisition' program...Don't hold your breath.

 

[OPSSG]

At this stage it's all speculation as to what the future holds for the Rhino fleet. Again, I suspect that until the decision to proceed, or not (decision due mid 2020s), with the possible last batch of F-35As, we won't know what the future holds for the Rhino fleet...

As for the Growler fleet, well I think it's pretty clear that they will continue to have a normal full RAAF service life.

As for Block III upgrade for the Growlers, my understanding is that 'Block III' only applies to the USN Rhino (at this stage), both as upgrades from Block II airframes and new built airframes.

Eventually we'll probably see some (or all?) Rhino Block II to III components flow across to the Growlers (such as CFTs) but until there is some official announcement of a plan to do so, it's also just speculation.

On 4 Feb, the US Navy announced that it converted EA-18G Growlers into unmanned aerial vehicles. In a test, 1 manned Growler controlled 2 unmanned Growlers. The previously unknown test could mean that unmanned US Navy warplanes are coming sooner than experts thought, which then will be an option for Australia.

According to a C4ISRNET report, a single EA-18G Growler controlled two unmanned Growlers in the air. This test by the US Navy is notable for 2 reasons.

• One, the Navy was not known to be working on unmanned systems other than the MQ-25 Stingray, a future drone tanker set to join the fleet by 2024. Under the contract, worth an initial US$805.3m, Boeing will deliver the fully operational MQ-25As by 2024. The deal was labelled “historic” by Chief of Naval Operations Admiral John Richardson, who said when the contract was announced. “Boeing is required to successfully complete the development of the MQ-25A system that meets all key performance parameters, complete full system integration, complete a formal test and evaluation programme, and develop affordable and executable manufacturing processes,” Captain Reed says, adding he expects flight testing to begin in 2021.
  
  
• Second, the ability to convert a manned fighter such as the EA-18G Growler into an unmanned aircraft was also previously unknown.

• Third, in a period where the US defence budget is flatlined, an unmanned Growler program will only occur if other programs are cut or deferred. Pentagon officials outlined some of the changes coming in 2021 to reporters. They outlined a plan they’re pitching Congress to move US$5.7 billion away from underperforming or outdated weapons systems and offices to some of those new technology efforts. “There’ll be contracts terminated. There’ll be less level of effort in certain areas, but I don’t think there’ll be any involuntary” separations or layoffs, one official said. These changes are meant to fund a modernization program aimed at staying ahead of China and Russia in what is a burgeoning arms race in all but name. A small but potentially significant change in the Pentagon’s five-year budget projection slows down the buying profile for the U.S. Navy’s new FFG(X) frigate, which is expected to be awarded in 2020, according to a memo from the White House’s Office of Management and Budget to the Department of Defense,

 

[Redlands18]

Simply, no.
The only vehicle in Australian military possession capable of using the AGM-158C are their Super Hornets. Plus, the AGM-158Cs and associated hardware & equipment ordered are only capable of use in an air launched role.
Additionally, there is no such thing as a ship/surface launched production LRASM.
Now, if the US Navy ever successfully develops the hardware & software, then qualifies the missiles for use on P-8s the RAAF may acquire such a capability.
My recommendation considering this decade long "rapid acquisition' program...Don't hold your breath.

It also says in the FMS notice that it is for use from the F-18 and does not mention any other Platform and that suggests that the Super Hornets are here to stay, hard to see Australia ordering a major new Missile for an Aircraft its going to replace a couple of years later.

 

[FormerDirtDart]

It also says in the FMS notice that it is for use from the F-18 and does not mention any other Platform and that suggests that the Super Hornets are here to stay, hard to see Australia ordering a major new Missile for an Aircraft its going to replace a couple of years later.

I would imagine the Super Bugs will be in the service of the RAAF for a significant period after the last of the F/A-18A/Bs have been put out to pasture

 

[seaspear]

There is also the option of arming the Pseidon with the missile
ttps://thediplomat.com/2020/02/us-navy-to-arm-p-8a-poseidon-with-long-range-anti-ship-missile/
Ther are other progams to turn other fighters into drones as the f-16 is mentioned in these articles for
https://www.militaryaerospace.com/u...ned-target-drones-for-advanced-pilot-training
The Pentagon Wants Autonomous Fighter Jets to Join the F-35 in Combat

 

[Redlands18]

I would imagine the Super Bugs will be in the service of the RAAF for a significant period after the last of the F/A-18A/Bs have been put out to pasture

The question on what is happening with the future of the RAAF Shornets has been up in the air for some years now, they were originally only a stop gap measure to replace the F-111s until the F-35s arrived and the original intention was to order a further 28 F-35s as the long term replacement for the F-111s. The 2016 DWP does mention an eventual replacement but leaves it up in the air what with and conjecture in Australia has been about what is going to happen between more F-35As or F-35Bs even or some other Aircraft or retain the Shornets into the 2030s, this announcement suggests the later.

 

[FormerDirtDart]

There is also the option of arming the Pseidon with the missile
ttps://thediplomat.com/2020/02/us-navy-to-arm-p-8a-poseidon-with-long-range-anti-ship-missile/
Ther are other progams to turn other fighters into drones as the f-16 is mentioned in these articles for
https://www.militaryaerospace.com/u...ned-target-drones-for-advanced-pilot-training
The Pentagon Wants Autonomous Fighter Jets to Join the F-35 in Combat

No, there is no current option to arm the RAAF Poseidon's with the missile. Because such an option does not exist at this time.
The US Navy has only just issued a 'request for information' (RFI) to develop additional weapons capabilities for the P-8. No actual development program has been initiated, nor has a time frame or order of priority for specific weapons deployment been decided.

 

[ngatimozart]

Simply, no.
The only vehicle in Australian military possession capable of using the AGM-158C are their Super Hornets. Plus, the AGM-158Cs and associated hardware & equipment ordered are only capable of use in an air launched role.
Additionally, there is no such thing as a ship/surface launched production LRASM.
Now, if the US Navy ever successfully develops the hardware & software, then qualifies the missiles for use on P-8s the RAAF may acquire such a capability.
My recommendation considering this decade long "rapid acquisition' program...Don't hold your breath.

Actually Lockheed Martin have already test launched the LRASM from both a box launcher and the Mk-41 VLS.This was done around 2014 / 15 I believe, as a proof of concept. So it wouldn't take much for LM to undertake the next step and integrate it into naval platforms and CMS's.

 

[OPSSG]

No, there is no current option to arm the RAAF Poseidon's with the missile. Because such an option does not exist at this time.
The US Navy has only just issued a 'request for information' (RFI) to develop additional weapons capabilities for the P-8. No actual development program has been initiated, nor has a time frame or order of priority for specific weapons deployment been decided.

Technically you are correct but that will soon change.

On 28 Jan 2020, the US Navy issued a solicitation to integrate the Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM) on its P-8A maritime patrol aircraft. In a February 2 addition, the Navy states that the contract could also include integration efforts for several Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM), Mk62/63/65 mines, Small Diameter Bombs (SDB-II), Miniature Air Launched Decoy (MALD), and other supporting systems. I expect Australian P-8As to be upgraded in lock-step with the US Navy’s fleet.

On 7 Feb 2020, it was announced that there was possible FMS to Australia of up to two hundred (200) AGM-158C, Long Range Anti-Ship Missiles (LRASMs) and related equipment for an estimated cost of US$990 million.

Edit: @MARKMILES77 has posted this info before, using a different source. I have posted the same with alternate sources linked too.

 

[Redlands18]

Well there you go.
US announces intergration of LRASM with P8A and a couple of days later a sale of 200 to Australia looks likely

US Approves Nearly $1Bil Anti-Ship Missile Sale to Australia | DefenceTalk[/

On 7 Feb 2020, it was announced that there was possible Foreign Military Sale to Australia of up to two hundred (200) AGM-158C, Long Range Anti-Ship Missiles (LRASMs) and related equipment for an estimated cost of US$990 million.

Actually MARKMILES77 beat you to it above

Mod Edit: Fixed BBcode

 

[seaspear]

There has been discussion on the R.A.A.F acquiring a bomberfleet on this forum ,the P8-A could possible now meet some of those roles with the ability of launching long range surface missiles without the cost of a singular use aircraft

 

[MARKMILES77]

Actually Lockheed Martin have already test launched the LRASM from both a box launcher and the Mk-41 VLS.This was done around 2014 / 15 I believe, as a proof of concept. So it wouldn't take much for LM to undertake the next step and integrate it into naval platforms and CMS's.

Lockheed Martin Successfully Tests LRASM MK 41 Vertical Launch System Interface



ORLANDO, Fla., Jan. 15, 2014 / -- Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) recently demonstrated and validated that its Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM) can be launched from any MK 41 Vertical Launch System (VLS) by only modifying the software to existing shipboard equipment.

During the company-funded test, LRASM and Tactical Tomahawk Weapons Control System (TTWCS), MK 41 VLS and Mk-114 booster hardware with modified software executed simulated missions and provided all electrical interfaces and data transfers needed to prepare and launch LRASMs.

LRASM is an autonomous, precision-guided anti-ship standoff missile leveraging the successful Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile Extended Range heritage, and is designed to meet the Offensive Anti-Surface Weapon needs of U.S. Navy and Air Force warfighters.

"This recent test demonstrates the low-risk and low-cost of launching LRASM from a ship, and was made possible by a cross-company team effort," said Glenn Kuller, vice president of advanced and special programs at Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control. "This program success helps pave the way for rapid fielding of a surface launch capability, meeting our warfighters' critical needs."

Lockheed Martin has invested $30 million to reduce risk and accelerate LRASM Initial Operational Capability on U.S. Navy DDGs. Multiple Lockheed Martin businesses are involved in this effort. Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control has overall responsibility for the LRASM program. Lockheed Martin Mission Systems and Training manufactures the MK 41 VLS for the DDG 51 platforms and the Mk-114 booster hardware. Lockheed Martin Information Systems and Global Solutions collaborates with several Navy laboratories to develop and integrate TTWCS.

In September 2013, Lockheed Martin successfully launched the first LRASM Boosted Test Vehicle from a MK 41 VLS launcher at White Sands Missile Range, N.M. During the test, MK 41 VLS successfully ignited the LRASM Mk-114 rocket motor, and the LRASM Boosted Test Vehicle penetrated and exited through the canister cover and performed a guided flight profile similar to a tactical configuration.

In 2014, there will be two DARPA-funded surface-launch demonstrations with a LRASM vertically launched from the Desert Ship at White Sands Missile Range, transitioning to controlled flight and target area impact.

LRASM is in development with the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency (DARPA) and the Office of Naval Research. Lockheed Martin's offering has both surface-launched and air-launched variants to prosecute sea-based targets at significant standoff ranges.

Headquartered in Bethesda, Md., Lockheed Martin is a global security and aerospace company that employs about 116,000 people worldwide and is principally engaged in the research, design, development, manufacture, integration, and sustainment of advanced technology systems, products, and services. The Corporation's net sales for 2012 were $47.2 billion.

For additional information, visit our website:
http://www.lockheedmartin.com

SOURCE Lockheed Martin

Seems it is just a software change to surface launch a LRASM from any surface ship equipped with the Mk 41 VLS.
Has already been intergrated with a booster rocket in the form of the Mk-114.
That means the AWDs or Hunter class could fire it.
Alternatively it can also be fired from canister launchers mounted on a ships deck which would also be options for the AWDs and Hunters.
Or for that matter from the deck of an OPV!

 

[seaspear]

Xavier Vavasseur a well known defence journalist indicates we may be jumping the gun with believing the L.R.A.S.M is a done deal as the actual decision on the competition with the J.S.M which is also in the tender is yet to be announced
United States Approves Possible FMS of LRASM to Australia - Naval News

 

[John Newman]

Certainly good news that the Government has sought approval for procurement of up to 200 LRASM, not cheap at a price of close to US$1b for the program too.

I can well imagine as time goes by that we will see LRASM carried not only by F/A-18F and P-8A, but also externally by F-35A at some future date (a future software block update that may also include a JASSM-ER capability too).

I can also well image that LRASM will also see service with the RAN, Mk41 VLS and potentially box/canister launched too (I do wonder if LRASM is also capable of being put into a canister to be sub-launched as well??).

Unlike in the past where the ADFs AShM of choice (only choice) has been Harpoon, I can also see more than one type of AShM in ADF inventory.

Harpoon Block II will no doubt be in service for a while yet, introduction of LRASM, JSM for internal (and external) carriage by F-35A, I believe that tests have been done in the US for external fitment of JSM on Super Hornet too.

We may also see JSM/NSM end up in RAN service.

And last but not least, SM-6 also has an AShM capability too.

Cheers,

 

[John Newman]

It also says in the FMS notice that it is for use from the F-18 and does not mention any other Platform and that suggests that the Super Hornets are here to stay, hard to see Australia ordering a major new Missile for an Aircraft its going to replace a couple of years later.

Suggests that Super Hornets are here to stay? Well, that's a big assumption, and we all know what happens when we assume, 'It makes an ASS out of U and ME'!! I don't know how anyone could tie the potential procurement of LRASM to Super Hornet staying for a full service life for ever and a day.

As I mentioned in the post above, LRASM has a much broader use than just being integrated to the Super Hornet fleet, I agree that if we were talking of a weapons system that was only for use on a Super Hornet, then maybe your assumption would be much closer to the mark.

You may end up being correct that Super Hornet is going to have a full service life beyond 2030, but I still think we are 4-5 years away from knowing if the Supers will be in or out of service and replaced by that potential last batch of F-35A.

Anyway mate, just my opinion of course too!

Cheers,

 

[StingrayOZ]

SH is probably the easiest platform to integrate to at the current point in time.

I am still betting we see JSM and LRASM in capability.

• JSM fits into the F-35. So retains stealth
• LRASM is ready to go on SH and is going to be integrated on P8. (LRASM integration planned for P-8A Poseidon | Jane's 360). I think long term it will be intergrated on F-35.

Navy may select both JSM/LRASM to fire from ships.

 

[ngatimozart]

Just a thought. It would take a few JSM with a 125 kg (276 lb) warhead to knock out a PLAN Type 055 CCG, but a lesser number of LRASM which has a 1,000 lb warhead. There are targets that don't require a 1,000 lb warhead, with such a warhead being a waste, and conversely there are targets where a 1,000 lb warhead as an absolute requirement. Would it not be possible that the ADF may look at acquiring some JSM and some LRASM? I am not saying that they will, but the possibility exists that they might.