Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[cdxbow]

I have been looking for articles about progress in the Loyal Wingman project - today this excellent one dropped into my lap - Full Page Reload.Lots of interesting stuff in it, 3 prototypes are being built with first flights later this year, with the aim of introduction in the mid 2020. The autonomy issue is discussed as one of the most difficult.

As an aside, the RAAF seems to be better organised than the other branches with respect to introducing new technologies.

 

[seaspear]

Defence Connect
This article discusses the flight of the block 111 S/H and its new capabilities and at the end discusses Australia likely to take this up
,Is there though such a plan for the R.A.A.F s Super Hornets having this type of upgrade ?
RAAF Super Hornets eye computing upgrade, IRST

 

[King Wally]

I have been looking for articles about progress in the Loyal Wingman project - today this excellent one dropped into my lap - Full Page Reload.Lots of interesting stuff in it, 3 prototypes are being built with first flights later this year, with the aim of introduction in the mid 2020. The autonomy issue is discussed as one of the most difficult.

As an aside, the RAAF seems to be better organised than the other branches with respect to introducing new technologies.

I found this part of the article's debate interesting...

"The RAAF already operates a variety of advanced aircraft, such as Lockheed Martin F-35 jets, but these $100 million fighters are increasingly seen as too expensive to send into contested airspace. You don’t swat a fly with a gold mallet."​

Looking at the price of other high end drone systems, such as the Global Hawk or Triton for example I have a feeling the author could have questioned the costs a little more. I think the F35 often gets unfairly beat up over costs when in reality a lot of high end military equipment is frighteningly expensive to manufacture these days.

Personally I would have argued that the biggest advantage this system offers is lower "political" costs by removing the Australian citizen from the cockpit. A lost drone, even an expensive one will be overlooked by the public but if you start seeing human lives lost it's a BIG deal for the government of the day.

 

[John Newman]

Defence Connect
This article discusses the flight of the block 111 S/H and its new capabilities and at the end discusses Australia likely to take this up
,Is there though such a plan for the R.A.A.F s Super Hornets having this type of upgrade ?
RAAF Super Hornets eye computing upgrade, IRST

Here's an article from The War Zone that is worth a read:

Here's Where Boeing Aims To Take The Super Hornet In The Decades To Come

As you will see, the USN Super Hornet Block II to Block III airframe upgrade program is due to commence in 2022 and complete in 2033, no rush is there?

As for the RAAF, I would imagine that the current fleet will continue to have whatever incremental Block II upgrades that the USN applies to their fleet, and that we probably won't see a Super Hornet Block III decision until the Government decides (or not), to replace them with the last batch of F-35A, that decision is due around 2025.

Again, I don't see the need to rush into a decision, if we do proceed with the last batch of F-35A it would appear to be a waste of money for such a potentially short service life as Block III.

Cheers,

 

[John Newman]

Interesting little article from the Defence Connect website:

Defence Connect

The relevant paragraph:

The RAAF began training at Luke AFB with the 61st Fighter Squadron and Aircraft Maintenance Unit in December 2014 with two F-35s. Since then, 34 Australian pilots and 16 instructor pilots have earned their certification, and as of January 2020, the RAAF owns 20 F-35s.

All appears to going well with 34 pilots and 16 instructor pilots already trained, and 20 airframes now in RAAF possession, that figure of 20 would include the 18 as at end of last year, 2 more so far this year, and still to come, another 13 due between now and end of the year).

Cheers,

 

[seaspear]

Here's an article from The War Zone that is worth a read:

Here's Where Boeing Aims To Take The Super Hornet In The Decades To Come

As you will see, the USN Super Hornet Block II to Block III airframe upgrade program is due to commence in 2022 and complete in 2033, no rush is there?

As for the RAAF, I would imagine that the current fleet will continue to have whatever incremental Block II upgrades that the USN applies to their fleet, and that we probably won't see a Super Hornet Block III decision until the Government decides (or not), to replace them with the last batch of F-35A, that decision is due around 2025.

Again, I don't see the need to rush into a decision, if we do proceed with the last batch of F-35A it would appear to be a waste of money for such a potentially short service life as Block III.

Cheers,

Thers obviously possibilities if they wish to upgrade the S/H , a question would be what the aircraft do differently to the F35A and if there are any plans to maintain the development of a second type of aircraft

 

[Stampede]

Thers obviously possibilities if they wish to upgrade the S/H , a question would be what the aircraft do differently to the F35A and if there are any plans to maintain the development of a second type of aircraft

That's the question.

Will we invest heavily in the Super Hornet / Growlers or will we consolidate with a F 35 fleet.
Suggest we'll know in the next 3 to 4 years if not sooner when some decisions will need to be made.

Regards S

 

[Sideline]

A recent Facebook post is promoting the idea of converting the retired RAAF P3 Orion’s to firebombers.

I don’t know enough to know whether this is a workable idea, do any RAAF personnel here
have an opinion as to whether this would work?

 

[aussienscale]

A recent Facebook post is promoting the idea of converting the retired RAAF P3 Orion’s to firebombers.

I don’t know enough to know whether this is a workable idea, do any RAAF personnel here
have an opinion as to whether this would work?

My two cents, the air frames are shagged ! the cost to zero, if you can that is, the frames and get a useful service live out of them would be prohibitive ! The money is better spent on new purpose built aircraft.

If you could, who do they go to ? who pays for them, who operates them ?

 

[ASSAIL]

My memories of flying low level in a P3 are ones of an incredibly stiff and jerky movements probably due to their shortish and rigid wings.
Flew from RAAF Edinburgh during ASW famils.
I know some are kitted out as firefighters but would have thought other aircraft would be more suitable.

 

[Redlands18]

A recent Facebook post is promoting the idea of converting the retired RAAF P3 Orion’s to firebombers.

I don’t know enough to know whether this is a workable idea, do any RAAF personnel here
have an opinion as to whether this would work?

It will be interesting to see what the wash up will be from the Bushfires, do we develop a fleet of Firefighting Aircraft of our own? Suitable 2nd hand Aircraft won’t be hard to get hold of or do we continue to lease Northern Hemisphere Aircraft which are rarely needed at Home in the Nov-Mar period?

 

[John Fedup]

It will be interesting to see what the wash up will be from the Bushfires, do we develop a fleet of Firefighting Aircraft of our own? Suitable 2nd hand Aircraft won’t be hard to get hold of or do we continue to lease Northern Hemisphere Aircraft which are rarely needed at Home in the Nov-Mar period?

Leasing Northern hemisphere aircraft will still make sense but having domestic aircraft is a good idea. In North America, aircraft are often relocated to various fire regions in Canada and the US by government and private organizations.

 

[oldsig127]

It will be interesting to see what the wash up will be from the Bushfires, do we develop a fleet of Firefighting Aircraft of our own? Suitable 2nd hand Aircraft won’t be hard to get hold of or do we continue to lease Northern Hemisphere Aircraft which are rarely needed at Home in the Nov-Mar period?

And then we have the issue of just who flies them. As I understand it, it's a pretty specialised task best done by experienced crews who keep their hours up and don't need retraining every year. The RAAF is hardly over supplied with air crew with nothing to do but stay current on firefighting aircraft, or needing to be pulled from other tasks to spend our low risk period in California or Greece

I suspect there's a reason most of the large tankers are crewed by specialists and provided by the leasing companies

oldsig

 

[hauritz]

We have the National Aerial Firefighting Centre (NAFC) which was formed directly by the states and territories back in 2003. It gets some funding from the Federal Government.

NAFC

All of their aircraft and aircrew are contracted. I don't think they own or operate any themselves. Either way, the availability of firebombing aircraft seems as though it is covered.

That isn't to say the military doesn't have a role to play. All three services were involved this summer and if this has truly become the new norm then maybe they will need to develop specific capabilities to deal with these sorts of situations in the future. Surveillance might be one area the military could contribute. Airlifting firefighters and equipment is another. Worse case scenarios could involve search and rescue operations.

 

[hauritz]

Here's an article from The War Zone that is worth a read:

Here's Where Boeing Aims To Take The Super Hornet In The Decades To Come

As you will see, the USN Super Hornet Block II to Block III airframe upgrade program is due to commence in 2022 and complete in 2033, no rush is there?

As for the RAAF, I would imagine that the current fleet will continue to have whatever incremental Block II upgrades that the USN applies to their fleet, and that we probably won't see a Super Hornet Block III decision until the Government decides (or not), to replace them with the last batch of F-35A, that decision is due around 2025.

Again, I don't see the need to rush into a decision, if we do proceed with the last batch of F-35A it would appear to be a waste of money for such a potentially short service life as Block III.

Cheers,

The last Defence White paper did indicate that the Rhino's would be replaced by the late 2020s. I can see the Growlers eventually being upgraded to Block III. Perhaps a number of the pre-wired Rhino's might be retained to help sustain the Growler fleet.

 

[Redlands18]

Delete post

 

[Redlands18]

Australian Aviation Magazine | Aviation News From Australia & The World
NSW did buy 3 Aircraft last year for firefighting including a 737

sorry can’t get it to go straight to the article but you will find it on the home page under trending

 

[seaspear]

M.B.D.A is proposing a E.W version of the Spear missile this can be fielded with the block4 F35 but would it also provide extra support to the R.A.A.F s S/H

 

[John Newman]

A recent Facebook post is promoting the idea of converting the retired RAAF P3 Orion’s to firebombers.

I don’t know enough to know whether this is a workable idea, do any RAAF personnel here
have an opinion as to whether this would work?

Whoever came up with that idea really should have done their homework as to what is the 'status' of the 20 x AP-3C fleet:

1 x Crashed – Cocos Islands – April 1991
2 x AP-3C (EW) – last two still in service, both will eventually be replaced by the 4 x MC-55A in a few years
5 x Sold to MHD Rockland - Those five aircraft are now in the USA
1 x Future Gate Guard for RAAF Edinburgh
1 x Stored at Avalon for AWM
3 x Scrapped 2014
1 x Point Cook
1 x Evans Head Aviation Museum
1 x HARS
1 x South Australian Aviation Museum
1 x Darwin Aviation Museum
1 x Parkes Aviation Museum
1 x Queensland Aviation Museum

ADF Serials - Orion

I think the simple answer is no, not going to happen. It's not like the 'fleet' is just sitting there somewhere waiting for a new life or home.

Cheers,

 

[John Newman]

The last Defence White paper did indicate that the Rhino's would be replaced by the late 2020s. I can see the Growlers eventually being upgraded to Block III. Perhaps a number of the pre-wired Rhino's might be retained to help sustain the Growler fleet.

At this stage it's all speculation as to what the future holds for the Rhino fleet. Again, I suspect that until the decision to proceed, or not (decision due mid 2020s), with the possible last batch of F-35As, we won't know what the future holds for the Rhino fleet, one way or the other.

As for the Growler fleet, well I think it's pretty clear that they will continue to have a normal full RAAF service life.

As for Block III upgrade for the Growlers, my understanding is that 'Block III' only applies to the USN Rhino (at this stage), both as upgrades from Block II airframes and new built airframes.

Eventually we'll probably see some (or all?) Rhino Block II to III components flow across to the Growlers (such as CFTs) but until there is some official announcement of a plan to do so, it's also just speculation.

Cheers,