Pacific Islands - Polynesia and Melanesia.

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Interesting take on Chinese behaviour at the recent APEC in PNG, with accusations of dummy spitting and bullying by Chinese officials. I noticed all the flags and photos of Xi around the place on the news coverage and it does speak somewhat of Chinese arrogance. I remember an incident earlier in the year at the South Pacific Forum in Nauru, where a Chinese official spat the dummy and threw his toys out of the cot, when he was put in his place by the Forum Chair for speaking out of turn and bullying at the opening of the forum. There is also an ongoing situation in NZ where a leading academic has been targeted by China because of her work on Chinese influence campaigns in foreign countries. Her office and home have been burgled with laptops and phones taken but other valuables left behind. Since then her car has been tampered with. NZ is also a target for Chinese interference and it may be upping the ante. Unfortunately Kiwi pollies, especially the current PM, are to gutless to do anything about it. They have their heads stuck down the proverbial dunny.
Speaking about arrogance....this is what happened earlier this month

China boots media from Pacific Island leaders meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping
By Papua New Guinea Correspondent Natalie Whiting
Updated 18 Nov 2018, 4:23am

PHOTO: Attempts to put microphones up to speakers to record were rebuffed by Chinese authorities. (ABC News: Natalie Whiting)

Media who were invited to cover Chinese President Xi Jinping's meeting with Pacific leaders have been denied entry by Chinese officials.


Complete article at: 'All of you get out': China boots media out of Pacific leaders meeting in PNG


Im not surprised. China is a communist country, there is no press freedom, only state controlled propaganda is allowed. But now the chinese think they have the right to control the media abroad. Bit by bit they show their true face...
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
PM Will Commission New Naval Vessel | Fiji Sun

New ex PLAN ship for Fiji, will be officially inducted in the fleet. As pictures already circulated, then it's known as catamaran survey ship. I know it's a few months old story on the incoming transfer, still currious choice for China to donate a survey ship.
Thanks for sharing.

Fijian Navy’s hydrography and maritime surveillance functions will now be fully enhanced with the arrival of its new ship the RFNS Kacau.

As written in these articles, the RFNS Kacau (i'm glad we don't have a naval ship with the name KRI Kacau :-D ) is a new hydrographic vessel which would also be used for other maritime surveillance activities that the Navy saw fit.

And it seems it is not armed looking to the photos on
RFNS Kacau to be commissioned soon
and
DEFENSE STUDIES: The Fiji Navy Received a Chinese-Built Hydrographic Vessel

But according to the articles, the ship is brandnew, and not second hand ex-PLAN...
 

ngatimozart

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A Chinese company close to the CCP has leased the island of Tulagi for 75 years from the Solomons Islands. The deal was done in secret. Tulagi has a natural deep water harbour and there are no known oil or gas reserves in the area even though a document states that the Chinese are considering build an oil and gas terminal there. "The document also, states that the government will lease all of Tulagi and the surrounding islands in the province for the development of a special economic zone or any other industry that is suitable for any development.”

This does create a significant security concern for both Australia and New Zealand because if dual use facilities are built on Tulagi, then the PLAN and PLAAF will be able to operate regularly within our region, potentially creating all sorts of mischief.

China Is Leasing an Entire Pacific Island. Its Residents Are Shocked.
 

Novascotiaboy

Active Member
I read that earlier tonight and have spent the night surfing to learn about the strategic importance that this brings about if there is a back door plan to militarize the island.

This might be the knock on the literal fron door that the NZG needs to increase defence expenditure.
 

ngatimozart

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I read that earlier tonight and have spent the night surfing to learn about the strategic importance that this brings about if there is a back door plan to militarize the island.

This might be the knock on the literal fron door that the NZG needs to increase defence expenditure.
Nope, the knock on the front door for kiwi pollies would be a Chicom military base on Soames Island in the middle of Wellington harbour.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Chinese company close to the CCP has leased the island of Tulagi for 75 years from the Solomons Islands.
So it take Imperial Japanese full scale invasion of South East Asia before they could hold Tulagi and Solomon Island..while it take no Chinese military for them to control Tulagi..how the world are changing..

Well I think it come back to what Chinese can do with their overseas port Investment. In Sri Lanka seems there are some debate within Sri Lankan parliament whether ports that under Chinese Investment can also be used by Chinese Military, without Sri Lankan consent first. So far seems when PLAN ships did come to that ports, all still under Sri Lankan Navy invitation..Thus those ports still can not be used by Chinese Military at their will (unlike US overseas based).

I could be wrong, but seems so far it's what I read on Sri Lankan case. Based on that, any ports contract hold by Chinese business, not automatically translate as potential Chinese Military base.
However considering what Chinese did in Africa, their money do manage some of African Nation to be more diplomatically under Chinese direction.
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
An interesting development this lease an island thing.
Add to the mix a change of heart re Taiwan last month.
Certainly keen to know where this going.

By the way,
which country had that RAMSI mission a few years back?

Regards S

"Helpem Frem"
 

DouglasLees

Member
Yes and my father was stationed there for a time with the RNZAF, had some interesting tales. While our government will make its displeasure known to the public, to cover their political backsides, I doubt they will do anything defence wise, it will always be a case of too little, miles to late regardless whether it is national or labour in power as when it comes to defence the only thing our pollies are good at is sticking their heads in the sand.
I haven’t checked this (will do later) and I’m taking a risk by relying purely on my recollections, but I think there was a secessionist movement on Espiritu Santo at the time of Vanuatu’s independence (the end of the condominium) in (?) 1980. The name Jimmy Stevens comes to mind. I also seem to recall that there was American involvement- not governmental but ‘liberaltarian’ think tanks who wanted to make Espiritu Santo a free-market utopia. If I am right about this - and as I say I am depending on my (usually good) memory , it does illustrate the cultural complexity and strategic significance of Vanuatu.
 

ngatimozart

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An interesting development this lease an island thing.
Add to the mix a change of heart re Taiwan last month.
Certainly keen to know where this going.

By the way,
which country had that RAMSI mission a few years back?

Regards S

"Helpem Frem"
Solomon Islands.
 

DouglasLees

Member
I am reading a book about traditional Fijian culture and society (anyone who wants details please feel free to send me a pm). It’s very interesting but curiously says nothing about the Fijian contribution to sport and the Armed Forces. It’s made me curious about the Fijian language: I can’t find much about it on line except that it is described as ‘Austronesian’. Does this mean that it is related to Indonesian and Tagalog? Is it Melanesian or Polynesian (or containing aspects of both)?

Bringing this back to the topic, Fijians have made a valuable contribution to the British as well as Aus. and NZ Armed Forces. Indeed we would be better (in the UK) to recruit more Fijian men than to embrace woke/PC culture. Their contribution to Rugger would also be a good side-effect of their recruitment.
 

ngatimozart

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I am reading a book about traditional Fijian culture and society (anyone who wants details please feel free to send me a pm). It’s very interesting but curiously says nothing about the Fijian contribution to sport and the Armed Forces. It’s made me curious about the Fijian language: I can’t find much about it on line except that it is described as ‘Austronesian’. Does this mean that it is related to Indonesian and Tagalog? Is it Melanesian or Polynesian (or containing aspects of both)?
IIRC the Fijians are Melanesian, but you may have to google that. They aren't Polynesian which the Hawaiians, Tahiitians, Samoans, Tongans, Rapa Nui (Easter Island) Maori etc., are. The Melanesians include the Papuans, Solomon Islanders, etc., and I think the Australian Aboriginal peoples.
Bringing this back to the topic, Fijians have made a valuable contribution to the British as well as Aus. and NZ Armed Forces. Indeed we would be better (in the UK) to recruit more Fijian men than to embrace woke/PC culture. Their contribution to Rugger would also be a good side-effect of their recruitment.
In NZ we tend to recruit across a wider range of Pacific Islanders than the UK does. The Tongans would probably be the hardest in a fight. I note that the US law enforcement don't appear to quite know how to handle the Tongan gangs who are active on their west coast. The usual whacking them with a baton or tazering them doesn't seem slow your average Tongan gangster down - just seems to make them crankier.

Genetically Polynesians are also big boned people and that accounts for their size. I am Maori and have a nephew who is 6ft 8, about 20 pick axe handles across the shoulders and not an ounce of fat on that boy and no fear. When he was at high school, he played 1st 15 rugby and he used to look at the Pacific Islander kids built like a King Tiger tank tearing down the track to tackle him and he'd be saying to himself "do I feel like getting hurt today", whilst quickly looking to offload the ball. Some of those Pacific Island kids at the age of 14 & 15 were, and are, the size of and have the speed of Jonah Lomu. The Pacific Islanders and Maori make good soldiers, sailors and airmen / airwomen and bring their culture into the forces with them, which is a good thing. The name of the NZ Army in Maori is Ngāti Tūmatauenga which translates as The tribe of Tūmatauenga. Tūmatauenga is the Maori God of War. The other two services names don't translate to Gods, but they do acknowledge the old Gods, Tangaroa (God of the Sea) in the case of the RNZN Te Taua Moana o Aotearoa (Warriors of the Sea of New Zealand) and Ranginui (the Sky Father) in the case of the RNZAF Te Tauaarangi o Aotearoa (New Zealand Warriors of the Sky), in other ways.
 

ASSAIL

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IIRC the Fijians are Melanesian, but you may have to google that. They aren't Polynesian which the Hawaiians, Tahiitians, Samoans, Tongans, Rapa Nui (Easter Island) Maori etc., are. The Melanesians include the Papuans, Solomon Islanders, etc., and I think the Australian Aboriginal peoples.

In NZ we tend to recruit across a wider range of Pacific Islanders than the UK does. The Tongans would probably be the hardest in a fight. I note that the US law enforcement don't appear to quite know how to handle the Tongan gangs who are active on their west coast. The usual whacking them with a baton or tazering them doesn't seem slow your average Tongan gangster down - just seems to make them crankier.

Genetically Polynesians are also big boned people and that accounts for their size. I am Maori and have a nephew who is 6ft 8, about 20 pick axe handles across the shoulders and not an ounce of fat on that boy and no fear. When he was at high school, he played 1st 15 rugby and he used to look at the Pacific Islander kids built like a King Tiger tank tearing down the track to tackle him and he'd be saying to himself "do I feel like getting hurt today", whilst quickly looking to offload the ball. Some of those Pacific Island kids at the age of 14 & 15 were, and are, the size of and have the speed of Jonah Lomu. The Pacific Islanders and Maori make good soldiers, sailors and airmen / airwomen and bring their culture into the forces with them, which is a good thing. The name of the NZ Army in Maori is Ngāti Tūmatauenga which translates as The tribe of Tūmatauenga. Tūmatauenga is the Maori God of War. The other two services names don't translate to Gods, but they do acknowledge the old Gods, Tangaroa (God of the Sea) in the case of the RNZN Te Taua Moana o Aotearoa (Warriors of the Sea of New Zealand) and Ranginui (the Sky Father) in the case of the RNZAF Te Tauaarangi o Aotearoa (New Zealand Warriors of the Sky), in other ways.
Fiji is an interesting mix of both Polynesian and Melanesian.
Melanesians are generally quite small, slightly built peoples, the opposite from Polynesians but Fijians are large people with Melanesian features.
Many years ago a wonderful magazine, “The Pacific Island Monthly” (Ithink no longer published but widely read by expats throughout the Pacific) published an article on the origins of those who populate the greater Pacific and traced the immigration voyages and settlement history of these people. It was an anthropologists delight and I’m only sorry I didn’t keep it.
My family is from the islands NE of Bougainville, three atolls, all Polynesian but politically aligned to PNG and the Solomon Islands and I have fond memories of these places where I spent the first 10 years of my life.
 
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oldsig127

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IIRC the Fijians are Melanesian, but you may have to google that. They aren't Polynesian which the Hawaiians, Tahiitians, Samoans, Tongans, Rapa Nui (Easter Island) Maori etc., are. The Melanesians include the Papuans, Solomon Islanders, etc., and I think the Australian Aboriginal peoples.
No, Australian Aboriginal people are an ethnically separate race. On the other hand the Torres Straight Islander (TSI) people are Melanesian and Australian, and there is some admixture in that area attested by census figures showing a proportion claiming dual heritage.

The TSI were to have been ceded to PNG when they became independent but the TSI people objected strenuously and were supported by the then Queensland Government against the Federal Government. Ultimately they are part of Oz; even those islands on the PNG side of the boundary!

{edit to add link to a dramatisation/doco - SBS also have a good doco]

Blue Water Empire

oldsig
 

Beam

Member
No, Australian Aboriginal people are an ethnically separate race. On the other hand the Torres Straight Islander (TSI) people are Melanesian and Australian, and there is some admixture in that area attested by census figures showing a proportion claiming dual heritage.

The TSI were to have been ceded to PNG when they became independent but the TSI people objected strenuously and were supported by the then Queensland Government against the Federal Government. Ultimately they are part of Oz; even those islands on the PNG side of the boundary!

{edit to add link to a dramatisation/doco - SBS also have a good doco]

Blue Water Empire

oldsig
Back in the day, Australian Aboriginals were classed as Meganesian, although I'm pretty sure that has long fallen by the (PC) wayside.
 

Hone C

Active Member

'War on the rocks' take on the Pacific in the context of Sino-American rivalry. The article suggests the current lack of a comprehensive US strategy needs to be addressed, and that leveraging Australia and New Zealand's understanding of the region is key.

Synergies could be achieved between NZ's 'Pacific Reset', Australia's 'Pacific Step Up', and the US' 'Pacific Pledge'. The Pacific Maritime Security Program is specifically mentioned, with the aerial surveillance component highlighted as an area where the US could have some input.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
The article suggests the current lack of a comprehensive US strategy needs to be addressed, and that leveraging Australia and New Zealand's understanding of the region is key.
The Micronesian and basically most of Oceanian Nations are among the poorest in the world. You need to look not only from Securities strategy, but also Investment strategies. PRC investment and economics incentives initially aim to win some of them from ROC influences. That's why Taiwan loosing some friends there. Now they are usimg their economics and investment initiatives to move forward with building influence sphere.

We can say China Road and Belt initiatives can bring debt trap for much of them. However for smaller economies around Asia, Oceanis and Africa, they see it as life line. Time will tell how succesful PRC will be with their Road and Belt initiatives. However if US and Australia want to counter them, then fighthing economics vs economics incentives is the way to do it. China still in buying friends, then have to fight apple vs apple styles as this moment.
 

ngatimozart

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Yep both the USDOD and US State Department should let the Aussies and Kiwis take point on this engagement. There are situations where the Aussies will have the Kiwis take the lead purely because of the differences in approachs. NZ has a more Polynesian orientated cultural approach because of our Māori culture and very large Polynesian population.

The idea of a multi agency international partnership between Australia, France, Japan, NZ, and USA for Oceania Development and Security is a good one and such an agency in which both Australia and NZ would have to be the leads. The small countries may be poor and deprived, but their people are proud and deserve respect. Some have leaders with touchy egos such as Frank Biananarama of Fiji, and the former Nauru President Baron Wacqua.
 

Ananda

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The small countries may be poor and deprived, but their people are proud and deserve respect.
True, but the problem commercially most of them are not high in Investment Banks map. Not because they don't have economics potential, but because their infrastructure are very poor. That's where China and their Belt and Road initiative coming. They offer Investment on area, where most investor stay off but that they desperately need to attract global Investors. The area of basic Infrastructure.

China knows that for most Investors, Investment Banks are not attracted to Invest in Infrastructure. Infrastructure are high capital intensive, but with long term return. Most Investors expect the host countries that provide that, to attract them. China willing to do that because they know even it's giving poor and long term return, but it's provide anchor to Economics foundation. Basically, if you control the anchor, you control the economics activities.

China strategy is to bring their Government Investment arms to come for Infrastructure. Then bring commercial community (whether from Mainland it self or other Nations) to enter more commercial viable activities. However they're going to directly/ (or through debt) indirectly Control the ports, airports, highways, railroads, power, even 5G internet. It's as Investment will bring smaller margin with longer return, but basically control everything.

That's what US, Australia, NZ even Japan need to counter. The Investment for Infrastructure. When Infrastructure already there, it's easier to attract commercial sectors to come.

Japan learn fast in Indonesia when they see China coming for infrastructure. Thus they counter that with Infrastructure scheme offer. However when I see the Chinese Investment in smaller nation's, I don't see much counter move against Chinese Investment drive on Infrastructure. This's whether in Africa, Some smaller nation in Asia, and Oceania.

Indonesia SOE for example got involve in East Timor infrastructure projects (Airport development, Power, Banking and Telecommunication), some even being funded by Indonesian SOE Banks. I know some Aussie funded projects also there, but mostly related to oil and gas.

This asside for commercial need, but also to make East Timor not too depend with China Investment (that coming in bigger number). I know this, because once I work with one of that SOE Banks. It will not hold China tides since Indonesia own Investment limitations. However hopefully reduce potential China hold.

That's what Aussie and NZ need to do, to reduce or even counter China drive. Go to Infrastructure projects. Because that's what they need, and also one of area that many commercial Investment balk from.
 
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New Zealand would have to step up and have direct capacity building involvement in Niue, The Cook Islands, and the Tokelau's as they are part of the Realm of New Zealand who has responsibility for their Defence and External Relations, as well as under the 1962 NZ-Samoa Treaty of Friendship, which left New Zealand upon invitation to protect Samoa.

I agree with Aussie Digger that the focus should initially be on HADR and SASO ready reaction under the auspices of CHP VIII of the UN charter. I also believe that a development of an air component for local EZZ patrols within jurisdictions would be valuable as well, building on the Guardian Class capability.

We do have Pacific thread so much of the detailed finessing could be explored there.
Moved my response here

I feel those RAAF Spartans could be put to good use supporting a Pacific Regt doing patrols as well potentially.
Amphibious infantry makes sense for a core role with a heavy emphasis on engineering (construction and combat)-seems logical to me at least given the AO. Solves some manning issues here in Australia too.
 
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