I believe that the LAV's are slated for upgrades in the future, so no problem there. the gun control isn't the problem, it's the guns not under control that is. You can make as many rules as you like about guns and sooner or later some dick will turn it all to custard.
New Zealand Army
- Thread starter Whiskyjack
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- army artilery gunner new zealand sas
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Frankly i think it odd to be utilising our Army in such a fashion,given its a civilian role its being used for. If its a funding shortage for police and they need such a vehicle then give them it for funding, Nz Army budget is already limited.
Simple answer is that NZDF are funded to provide support to the NZ Police and other Government agencies. One thing I wish to clear up is the armed use of NZDF in domestic incidents, there are multiple hoops to jump through before authority is transferred from one agency to another and they occur all at Ministerial Level & higher. For Army to assume responsibility from Police would require an incident that is beyond the capabilities of NZPOL to handle & one lone gunman is not the trigger point for that to occur, and if the incident did occur you still will not get NZLAV armed and engaging targets with its main or secondary weapon systems for obvious reasons of collateral damage.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
would this be a policy you agree with, or would you , like me see reason for us as a nation to separate such roles, and fund accordingly?
shanes_world_05
Member
And with some of the warriors that are in STG, it would have to be pretty serious. They are very capable and well drilled. LAV's do offer a great sensory input though I guess but the Police have similar capabilities too.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The main reason for a LAV type vehicle being used by police forces is for protection and perhaps some ISR during serious events. With the weapon station removed, civilian objections should be minimized. Gun ports would allow the use of 7.62 or 5.56 mm rounds.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
A couple if items from the NZ media that I don't think have been posted here.
Army basic training set to shift from Waiouru to Burnham | Stuff.co.nz
Self-explanatory title.
Inside NZ's new SAS training facility
New training facility at Ardmore. I seem to remember this was announced as an intent back around 2012, so it has taken a while.
TVNZ covers the same story.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/first-look-inside-sass-new-battle-training-facility
Since it's army-related, I'll also include this snippet from Australia. Not sure why, but I was under the impression that Australia was ahead of us in receiving new MAN trucks. Evidently, this isn't the case.
ADF takes delivery of first Land 121 3B vehicles
Army basic training set to shift from Waiouru to Burnham | Stuff.co.nz
Self-explanatory title.
Inside NZ's new SAS training facility
New training facility at Ardmore. I seem to remember this was announced as an intent back around 2012, so it has taken a while.
TVNZ covers the same story.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/first-look-inside-sass-new-battle-training-facility
Since it's army-related, I'll also include this snippet from Australia. Not sure why, but I was under the impression that Australia was ahead of us in receiving new MAN trucks. Evidently, this isn't the case.
ADF takes delivery of first Land 121 3B vehicles
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Surprised to hear the shift from Waiouru to Burnham, i wonder if they are selling off some of the land for housing, like with the airbase they closed at wigram? Though a shift really and not downsizing thankfully. I know a few locals that would be glad of the potential income in Rolleston :]
We took ours directly from the british order that has been already running for quite awhile now so essentially took over their next slots in line as apparently they may have ordered more than they needed anyway. Worked well for both of us then as we got the vehicles in quick time at a favourable price and they on sold some excess.
Saves on posting cycles and more attractive posting for instructors and their families in terms of job oppourtunities, amenities, schooling etc. There was talk of this when they were going to close Whenuapai and create the superbase. One of the options was to combine all 3 services basic, officer training and for some reason locate at Ohakea as well.
Not sure the housing boom in Waiouru will be much of a money maker, if anything they sold the houses and shipped them out. Waiouru camp will definately be a ghost camp now.
I doubt many people would want to move to Waiouru! With some of the army moving out it's going to be tough times ahead for the town, it's a pity it's not closer to Owakune and could become another base village for Turoa.
I went through Waiouru camp housing a few months back and there are whole streets that have been stripped of houses. most of the housing on the southern half of the camp settlement has gone with just empty streets and grass left.
t68
Well-Known Member
I believe ADF were still evaluating when you placed your order on the back of the UK order.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Are those the same make and model then Nzdf and Adf share now? the article mentions extra protection on the new trucks, i wonder if Nz has similar.
Yes Waiouru is a shadow of its former self, used to be quite a busy vibrant camp once upon a time, sad really, but got to change with the times I guess.
Yes same trucks, MAN HX series and yes we did get the armoured cabs but don't think we will see them fitted much in NZ as it makes them too heavy for our roads, have to look in the tussock hills of Waiouru from SH1 I suppose. Army trialled remote weapon systems on them awhile back as well so definately a step up from the trusty old mogs and 2228s.
Remember a Tasman Reserve exercise there back in the 80's
Very different landscape to our usual training at Puckapunyal
Bloody cold in greens. Very thankful for the army issue 1944 battle dress trousers for the exercise. I can attest to the wonder of wool in keeping some warmth when wet in the cold.
We looked like dads army compared to our NZ hosts with their smart DPM uniform, framed pack.and camouflaged two man tents.
Anyway a great experience watching the RNZAR sky hawks fly through the valley and hitching a ride on the Scorpian FV
Still remember watching the sun set over the picturesque mountains knowing the temperature was to drop very soon......................I guess that will stay the same.
Anyway best of luck to the town of Waiouru.
Regards S
Yes, share the feelings, Mum and Dad had a business at Waiouru during the 1950's, so we watched the town being built and the army doing its thing. Mainly ex WW2 equipment at the time, (which broke down frequently, they where always towing stuff back to base), plus the coming and going of the conscripts by trains. Everything in the town was new but man it was cold in winter. Security was relaxed and us kids simply could roam around the base and talk to the troops and find out what they where doing and watch what was going on.
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40 deg south
Well-Known Member
First batch of Overlander trucks delivered to ADF | IHS Jane's 360
This article from Janes states that the ADFs HX trucks are a newer generation than the UK/NZ ones, but doesn't specify what the differences are.
Mr Google threw up this piece when I was looking around, in which the delivery speed of the Australian vehicles is compared unfavorably with NZ.
https://quillorcapture.com/2015/07/21/waste-not-want-not-australias-dmo/
'Quill or Capture' (a lame pun on "Kill or Capture", I assume) is a generally light-hearted regular column from Shephard media that I wasn't previously aware of, but has some interesting comments in it. Worth bookmarking.
If I recall the events correctly, we initially selected BAE with their bastardised Stewart Stevensons / Steyrs which proptly broke and fell apart during testing at Pucka. This resulted in a reevaluation where it was determined that what BAE actually built was very different and inferior to the MOTS US Army option we thought we were going to get. At about the same time the US also moved their truck contracts from BAE to Oshkosh.
Don't know what the issue was but during the 2000s it seemed everything BAE touched turned to sh!t, even existing contracts held by companies they bought. I wonder if it was a lack of due diligence on BAEs part or, as I tend to suspect, an extremely dysfunctional or even toxic management style that wrecked successful firms they acquired.
Either way New Zealand has yet again demonstrated their ability to acquire an equivalent capability, sooner and for less money than Australia.