Military Aviation News and Discussion

[John Fedup]

I disagree.
first if Pork was the choice factor this program is set up by partnership that no matter which contender is chosen Lockheed Martin plants would still have the business. This is as Lockheed owns Sikorsky. And Lockheed is partnered for avionics with Bell.
Both Valor and Defiant were fabricated at Spirit. With many of the same sub contractors. This means the only rational reason to have both is of follow on potential adopters decide to choose the loser. Which right now looks like Defiant X. Valor across the board has the superior platform.
unless some other factors as yet not stated come into play like say a sudden push for a dedicated Gunship to replace Apache. It seems highly unlikely that they would split for the Army. It also seems unlikely for other US Forces who would likely adapt the FLRAA winner as the replacements for their medium lift choppers H1/H60 like the Marines, Navy, Air Force/Socom, Coast Guard.
farther more along side FLRAA you have FARA where in the most likely candidate are again Bell and Lockheed Martin Sikorsky. And the exact inverse of performance factors favoring Raider X. Barring some unknown factor this means that both pretty much end up balanced in the bacon side of procurement. Boeing being the only one getting the short stick due to not being partnered for Raider X. Yet they still are maintaining, building and upgrading AH64E and CH47F. Which as yet will be remaining in service without dedicated replacements until the 2040-2050 time spans.

Based on speed and range, the Valor would seem to be the likely choice, especially if the supply chains, as you suggest, are more or less common to either choice. I don’t know if that is the case or not and which program has the most influential Congressional leaders.

Some army members may insist on some helicopters due to certain preferred handling characteristics.

 

[Terran]

In the latter category, there are some jobs where generally Valor would be overkill. This is true however those jobs are also where Defiant would to. I am mostly thinking VIP transport, national guard missions in which case Valor or Defiant could do it but just not without the justification of raw numbers. The better answer in my opinion for those jobs would probably be UH72 Lakota or a Civilian Tiltrotor like the AW609.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Greece and France sign deal for 18 Rafale. Rafale + F-35 will surely give Greece advantage over Turkey's 90s era F-16C.

Greece, France sign 2.3 billion-euro fighter jet deal

Greece signed a 2.3 billion-euro ($2.8 billion) deal with France on Monday to purchase 18 Rafale fighter jets, as tensions remain high with neighbour Turkey.

www.ctvnews.ca

Remarkable...

Greece and France ink $3 billion contract for Rafale fighter jets

Six of the second-hand aircraft will be delivered at a rate of one a month starting this July, with the six new aircraft delivered in spring 2022 and the last six used aircraft delivered in early 2023.

www.defensenews.com

talks about a contract of €2,5 billion ($3,04 billion) and
Greece signs for Rafale combat aircraft
about €1,92 b ($2,35 b).
...and to make it more confusing
Greece's Purchase Of French-made Fighter Jets Worth €2 Billion - Greek City Times
tells its € 2.000.000.000.

 

[John Fedup]

Another Boeing development problem, the CF-47F block 2, has a significant rotor vibration problem that is delaying testing. Also, fuel cell sealing issues aren’t working as advertised after ballistic penetration. Block 2 was intended for SF only as the DoD wanted most funds going to future vertical lift. However, congressional pork barreling prevailed and funds for block 2 will continue through to FY22.

Latest Chinook helo variant has excessive rotor blade vibrations heading into major test

The Army is dealing with excessive vibrations with its new Chinook rotor blade design heading into a limited-user test this spring.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Ananda]

US suspends $23 billion sale of F-35s to UAE that followed Abraham Accords

Washington reviewing foreign arms sales made by Trump administration, including deal reached as part of Israel normalization, as well as accord with Saudi Arabia

www.timesofisrael.com

I put this in this thread as not talking on this particular deal only. However talking trend of US as reliable defense supplier. I don't want to speculate much on whether Bidden will continue the deal that Trump made, but more the confusion and skeptical thinking that come perhaps from some countries that use to be loyal US defense customers.

The increasing potential difference of Democrats and Republican in doing defense business from what I gather can be reasoning for some to not engage as used to be with US for long term, on several defense co-op. I take example with Indonesia. Assessment on using French Fighters as alternative from US ones actually already been considered for some time. From Mirage III vs F-5, Mirage 2000 vs F-16 or even now between Rafale vs F-16V or F-18E/F.

So far due to geopolitical reason and operating cost efficiency, the US Fighters get upper hand from French ones for Indonesian choosing. However I got impression from Indonesian media or Forums even my colleagues in Ministry of Finance, on potential defense deals with French getting more momentum then before.

Indonesia already using more and more Euro sources for defense assets procurement co-op. This shown in Navy, and Army. Now seems potential US dominance for Indonesian Fighters suppliers shown more potential to be replaced. Not I'm saying it will definitely happen, but it shows why some US defense customers now looking more and more to alternative.

The cost efficiency on maintaining and operating US defense assets is one of the main attraction toward procurement. With largest population of defense assets, the way US procurement can be lump toward existing US procurement line, is by far the most effective way on procurement defense items compared to other suppliers.

Still with this Democrats vs Republican shown more and more difference on their preference on defense co-op. Begin to shown some trend that in the end can be catalyst, for some US loyal customers to look for more potentially reliable alternative.

 

[John Fedup]

Aerospace, especially military kit, is America’s premier export. Biden shouldn’t do anything that screw that up. The American economy doesn’t need anymore stress.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The US has of course the right to refuse to sell defence equipment to other countries for any reason, but
1. (Like Ananda already said) With this the US shows it is an unreliable supplier.
2. (Like John Fedup already told) Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon and all other companies and their employees will be unhappy about it.
3. The US has then not the right to become upset and threat with CAATSA if the UAE and other countries choose for the Rafale, JAS 39 Gripen, Su-35 or other alternatives.

 

[Yama]

I would not read too much into it. A 'review' doesn't mean 'cancel'. Probably just something temporary so that the new administration can check out if such deals fit to their planned foreign policy.

 

[ngatimozart]

I would not read too much into it. A 'review' doesn't mean 'cancel'. Probably just something temporary so that the new administration can check out if such deals fit to their planned foreign policy.

It could mean cancel because the UAE deal circumvented the ITAR legislation requirements with the previous President pushing it through without notification to Congress by the DSCA. There was no Congressional approval or oversight as required by the ITAR law.

 

[Ananda]

The problem is not whether it's going to be cancelled or not. However can US Contract be hold or changes due to Political tide movement. When you do Procurement on defense items, it's most likely will be significant Investment. You're basically invest your defense co-op for long term.

It used to be most of US defense contract that signed under one administration will be honour by the next one, even the new administration coming from different party. However this "review" can raise a question, if this is going to be a trend in US do the polarized Political spectrum between Democrats and Republican ?

What if after 2024, Republican regain the White House, or able to take back majority in Senate or even Congress. Will that mean changes on policy on US defense co-op ?

Hope Biden administration can see beyond just Political Partisan agenda, and regain trust of US defense customers.

 

[John Fedup]

Unfortunately some customers of defence kit behave so outrageously it is difficult for pollies from civilized democracies to ignore their electorates. Case in point, Saudi Arabia.

 

[Toptob]

Unfortunately some customers of defence kit behave so outrageously it is difficult for pollies from civilized democracies to ignore their electorates. Case in point, Saudi Arabia.

Well... Sort of... Kind of... Sometimes... Maybe?!? What I mean to say is that to my mind Saudi Arabia has always been allowed to buy most of the arms that they wanted to, especially from the US. I think the only big player on the arms market that might realistically has to consider public opinion would be Germany.

For the most part even the more unpalatable regimes will be able to turn to the US or France for arms, as long as it serves their political or corporate interests... There's probably some way to make a deal go through, maybe trickle around some of those above mentioned pork barrels

 

[Big_Zucchini]

Israel and the US announce joint work on a new Arrow 4 air and missile defense system.

US and Israel announce work on new Arrow 4 air defense system amid Iran tensions

With 'extraordinary flight and interception capabilities,' the latest generation in the family of anti-ballistic missiles is set to replace the Arrow 2 in the coming decades

www.timesofisrael.com

The Israeli air defense array is a national one, and consists so far of 4 dense layers, from the bottom:

1. Iron Dome - C-RAM and V-SHORAD, having proven itself against even complex threats like mortars (typically only defeated by gun systems), UAVs, long range rockets, and cruise missiles. In service since 2011.

2. David's Sling - defeats SRBMs, aircraft, and cruise missiles. In service since 2017.

3. Arrow 2 - endo-atmospheric missile against SRBMs and up to LRBMs. In service since 2000.

4. Arrow 3 - exo-atmospheric missile against ICBMs. In service since 2017.

Should be noted that despite the difference in range, the Arrow 3 is actually smaller than the Arrow 2.

A new threat that emerged is MIRVs, particularly for MRBMs. The Arrow 4 is not meant to be above the Arrow 3, but to replace the old Arrow 2, and serve for multiple decades. It is not expected however that the Arrow 2 will be withdrawn at any time near thr Arrow 4's entry to service.
The David's Sling was initially said to replace the Patriot, but the IDF is keeping both, because it makes no sense to phase out a perfectly good system, even though the David's Sling already has full national coverage.

The Israeli and American joint air defense projects are funded partly by an annual $500 million aid program from the US, for all existing layers of defenses, and in return the US gets special rights including ToT, production share, and marketing rights.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

100% developed, designed and created by HQ Innovation....yes they are so innovative...because it does not look like a cheap Black Hornet 3 imitation!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365983045795405831

Black Hornet image below taken by Corporal Daniel Wiepen.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) has decommissioned two Lockheed Martin F-16 multirole fighter aircrafts, an F-16A Block 15 and an F-16B Block 15, probably because of fatigueness.
A day later it retired its last five Aero Vodochody L-39ZA Albatross lead-in fighter trainer (LIFT)/light attack aircraft, these L-39ZAs will be replaced by the KAI T-50TH.

RTAF decommissions two F-16, last five L-39ZA aircraft

The Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) has decommissioned two Lockheed Martin F-16 multirole fighter aircraft and its last five Aero Vodochody L-39ZA Albatross lead-in fighter...

www.janes.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Some updates of two projects.

The RACER is based on the Eurcopter X³ demonstrator, which in turn is based on the Aérospatiale SA 365.
With a cruise speed of up to 400 km/h (216 kn), it aims for a 25% cost reduction per distance over a conventional helicopter.

Airbus begins RACER build

Airbus Helicopters has begun assembly of its Rapid And Cost-Efficient Rotorcraft (RACER) concept, the company announced on 14 April.

www.janes.com

The new Eurodrone looks like a product of a marriage between a RQ-4 Global Hawk and a P.180 Avanti.

Germany agrees Eurodrone contract

Germany has approved a contract to develop the Eurodrone medium-altitude, long-endurance (MALE) unmanned aircraft system (UAS) with partner nations France, Italy, and...

www.janes.com

I actually dont understand why there has to be a third European UAV after the Dassault nEUROn and EADS Barracuda.

 

[John Fedup]

A RFP will be issued for the US army’s FLRAA to replace the Blackhawk. A huge opportunity and it will interesting to see if either LM-Sikorsky or Bell get the whole win. I suspect not as each aircraft has niche advantages. However, a 50-50 split like the LCS award, probably not.

Request for Proposals for Black Hawk Replacement Program Dropping Soon

Request for Proposals for Black Hawk Replacement Program Dropping Soon

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org

 

[John Fedup]

I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on this critique on tilt rotor versus compound helicopters but it does indicate the two competitors have begun their media assaults. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Both seem to offer substantial improvements on current technology.

FVL: Don't Pick The Tiltrotor, V-22 Test Pilot Tells Army - Breaking Defense

In the competition for the Future Long Range Assault Aircraft, high agility and low life-cycle costs matter most, a former Marine tiltrotor test pilot argues.

breakingdefense.com

 

[Terran]

I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on this critique on tilt rotor versus compound helicopters but it does indicate the two competitors have begun their media assaults. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Both seem to offer substantial improvements on current technology.

FVL: Don't Pick The Tiltrotor, V-22 Test Pilot Tells Army - Breaking Defense

In the competition for the Future Long Range Assault Aircraft, high agility and low life-cycle costs matter most, a former Marine tiltrotor test pilot argues.

breakingdefense.com

If you really read the article it’s kinda interesting not because it’s actually against the V280 but because it’s trying to make a case on the different perception of needs favoring the SB1. The case being that the Valor as a Tiltrotor is better suited to long range high altitude. Well the “Compound Helicopter” as he addressed it is better suited in his opinion to low altitude map of the earth ingress model favored when dealing with SAM site threats.

 

[John Fedup]

If you really read the article it’s kinda interesting not because it’s actually against the V280 but because it’s trying to make a case on the different perception of needs favoring the SB1. The case being that the Valor as a Tiltrotor is better suited to long range high altitude. Well the “Compound Helicopter” as he addressed it is better suited in his opinion to low altitude map of the earth ingress model favored when dealing with SAM site threats.

I agree each platform has unique advantages but why doesn’t the FLRAA program just acknowledge this and have two separate RFPs?