Malaysia going Nuclear

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I sometimes have to do with these solar panels due to my work and the new ones are rather good.
Enough energy production to feed a fair amount of energy back into the system.
Actually one roughly calculates that the panels on a normal house are paying for the investment within 10 years just by feeding some energy into the system (Ok the price for this is a little bit subsidized).
 

nevidimka

New Member
Compete, no, nothing can compete in efficiency with a nuclear power plant I think.
A big solar power plant would need a really big area where you raise these solar panels. It's more a thing for individual households. You can install these things on your roof and in this way create a certain amount of your electricity yourself. This lowers the overall amount of electricity needed in the country, if enough people participate.
This concept has become quite popular here in Germany during the last ~10 years. Today you see many houses with solar panels on the roof like in the photo that I attached. And in Malaysia there's like 10 times more sun than here in Germany. So a solar panel would much more effective there. But I really have no idea how much it would really bring.

Those things aren't cheap, but I like the idea. Maybe the gov should make it into law, to force ppl living in expensive houses/housing estates/kondos to put them up.

But the whether here is hot and humid, a lot of rainfall. I suspect it could have an issue with wear and tear.
 

Tavarisch

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Those things aren't cheap, but I like the idea. Maybe the gov should make it into law, to force ppl living in expensive houses/housing estates/kondos to put them up.

But the whether here is hot and humid, a lot of rainfall. I suspect it could have an issue with wear and tear.
Wear and tear is definitely a problem. It costs a lot to replace them I hear.

And the chances of making this into a law are really low. Consider this, most of the influential people in Malaysia are rich. Coincidentally, they are also greedy and uncaring. Greed+Carelessness+Wealth = No purchase of Solar Panels.

Sometimes, I wish I could just shoot a few of these Yang Berhormats. Really arrogant bastards if you ask me. They get to run red lights too.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Subsiding them might be much more usefull than trying to create a new law.
Isn't Malaysia also, at least partly, located on the pacific ring of fire?

Geothermal energy might also be an alternative.
 

Tavarisch

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Subsiding them might be much more usefull than trying to create a new law.
Isn't Malaysia also, at least partly, located on the pacific ring of fire?

Geothermal energy might also be an alternative.
Nope, according to our textbooks, we are NOT in the Lingkaran Api Pasifik.
 

nevidimka

New Member
Subsiding them might be much more usefull than trying to create a new law.
Isn't Malaysia also, at least partly, located on the pacific ring of fire?

Geothermal energy might also be an alternative.
While we are not in the Pacific ring of fire, we do have geothermal spots around the country. But I'm not sure if they are huge enough for power generation.
 

Zzims

New Member
Given the mindset of the Malaysian population, there is no way our government can turn rogue. We Malays are, in general, lazy and unproductive. It's a sad fact that I am reluctant to admit. We have a select few who are doing what they can, but overall their effort is moot. I do not intend to insult my fellow brethren. We make good administrators but we suck at capitalizing in the terms of finance. No single influential leader can make us move without changing our habits and mindset. Believe me, I know.

The only event that I recall Malays moving at all was the 1-4 March of 1946, and even then that was out of necessity. The chances of the so-called PAS turning radical is very low, given that Nik Aziz is also a man of peace. The only militant problem here is Jemaah Islamiah.


The Chinese here don't have a reason to replace our current government and in the event that they do, the PRC is their to back their regime. Indians on the other hand are not that militant, so long as we allow them to practice their religion peacefully, which we are doing.
Hollow assumptions at best, that I would dismiss completely, Try not to generalize people. You might be Malay. Doesnt give you the right to opinionated others through your own actions. Agreeable that your consider yourself lazy and unproductive. I know alot of Malays whom are hard-working and trying to make a change for themselves and others.

And no, Chinese nor the Indians have the ability to form a goverment through due process based on their numbers alone. Its a mixing process of sort, all for power or none at all.

Malaysian Politics? Stable?

I beg to differ I'm afraid. Our political system is a pyramid on it's tip. We've got so much infighting in Parliament, so many unnecessary religious and ethnic disputes. Corruption is as they say in Malay, "berleluasa". It's uncontrollable. Even the Anti-Corruption agency is rumored to be corrupted. If you had enough evidence, you could probably implicate the whole government. It's all linked. It's not gonna be long before someone will throw a wrench into our crippling political machine. And once that happens, Boom civil war.

And the thing about the US being unhappy.... I don't think we can say the same about Syria now can we? But I understand the situation, mainly being that Syria is within close proximity to Israel. There are some instances though where the US was unhappy with us. Anwar Ibrahmim's case for instance. He's got US Senators backing him up. In fact, I recall that Condolezza Rice made an official statement against our way of treating his case.
Evidently I agree that corruption is a huge problem. Eradicating it is a a priority. However thought we might be at odds with each other, simply put we still govern with abit more civility when compared to others. Stability can be judge in many different ways. I'd say Malaysia as a whole has the stability to sort out our problems with to say not least the required amount of maturity. And no a Civil War, wouldn't happen. There is just too many variables at stake, for us and the region. While I would see the US meddling in everyone's problems, but I forsee that going as far as vocal support for Anwar Ibrahim. Unwise to stack your chips with the US at the moment.

I think we should not foreclose any possibility. There are enough elements in PAS to make you think otherwise. I am not sure what the correlation between laziness is to being warmongering and acquiring weapons of mass destruction. It can happen. I will have to disagree about the good administrators part. My personal experience is that it is horrible without some money involved.
I for one wont compared the task and burden of Malaysian and Singaporean leaders have had to carry. As Its agreeable "Its horrible without some money involved" I see that remark going both ways North and South.


You will always have to store your own waste, or you could have an agreement with Russia to send it there for reprocessing if I'm not mistaken. but I believe if you own a reactor, you should store your own waste.
I agree absolutely. Tho the building and maintenance of nuclear facility in Malaysia might be concern due to lack in experience and know-how, its easily fixed by a a decade or two of intense research and techno-hopping. My main concern is the middle-man/interested politician. Cutting corners when building a nuclear facility is a precursor something much-much worse. I support the notion of Malaysian going nuclear.
 

Red

New Member
There wont be global objection considering Malaysia is a signatory of CTBT? and its a private energy project. It wont be built underground trying to hide it from the world.
I would not discount that from happening. A private energy project? All the more reason for it to be subjected constant checks. You are not getting it. You would not build key installations so close to your borders. What exactly is the difference between building it above ground or underground when it is properly and regularly approved/checked by global authorities? And how is it hiding when everyone knows about it.
 

Red

New Member
I for one wont compared the task and burden of Malaysian and Singaporean leaders have had to carry. As Its agreeable "Its horrible without some money involved" I see that remark going both ways North and South.
Both Malaysia and Singapore have thier respective limitations and challenges. That is no excuse for inefficiency. Yes, corruption exists in both countries. Here`s the index;

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2008

I am intimately interested in this given the business that I was doing previously.
 

nevidimka

New Member
I would not discount that from happening. A private energy project? All the more reason for it to be subjected constant checks. You are not getting it. You would not build key installations so close to your borders. What exactly is the difference between building it above ground or underground when it is properly and regularly approved/checked by global authorities? And how is it hiding when everyone knows about it.

What do you mean we are not getting it? Do you mean the gov wont be building it, or Malaysia wont be allowed to build a nuclear power plant?

And of course nuclear facilities are put through constant checks by the IAEA, that's part and parcel of having a nuclear deal. I do not see this as an obstacle in any way considering we want to generate electricity and not build nuclear weapons.

Also I dont think you understand what you are saying, you are contradicting yourself.
 

Red

New Member
What do you mean we are not getting it? Do you mean the gov wont be building it, or Malaysia wont be allowed to build a nuclear power plant?
Who`s "we"? I said Malaysia will not build the plant(if ever) so close to her borders. Do you not understand that? Refer to your posts much earlier.

And of course nuclear facilities are put through constant checks by the IAEA, that's part and parcel of having a nuclear deal. I do not see this as an obstacle in any way considering we want to generate electricity and not build nuclear weapons.
It would be good if that is to happen. Otherwise, it simply becomes a potential target.

Also I dont think you understand what you are saying, you are contradicting yourself.
No. My opinion is that you have issues fathoming what people are saying.
 

nevidimka

New Member
I would not discount that from happening. A private energy project? All the more reason for it to be subjected constant checks. You are not getting it. You would not build key installations so close to your borders. What exactly is the difference between building it above ground or underground when it is properly and regularly approved/checked by global authorities? And how is it hiding when everyone knows about it.

Admin Text deleted. That tone and response was completely unnecessary.

Who else builds nuke reactor underground and try to shield it from international attention like Syria? If it is known at all, that's because US keeps close tabs on Syria's activities. You are just not making sense on your response to my original post.
 
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Tavarisch

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Oh cut the crap man. I said if Malaysia built the reactor, its for pvt power generation purposes, not some illegal crap being done by Iran or Syria, so that it can fit into your "Singapore under nuke threat" wet dream agenda.

Who else builds nuke reactor underground and try to shield it from international attention like Syria? If it is known at all, that's because US keeps close tabs on Syria's activities. You are just not making sense on your response to my original post.
Let's try to be polite here. Judging by your tone, you don't look like you are gonna play nice. We don't want a war here. (Ironically, this is a defense thread)

And, I don't think Singapore is gonna react badly to this. It's not like we are gonna dump our waste on them.......

I understand that the reactor poses a threat if an accident happens. But, that's life. I surely want to have clean air for my kids. This fossil fuel industry is really killing us.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Before anyone else responds to this post:

Stay on topic
Stay polite
Read the forum rules.

Any breaches will see threads that don't comply being deleted
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
I am not against nuclear power in concept but the devil is in the details. I would like to bring up 3 points for your consideration, given our track record in the region:


1. Business Opportunity:

In 2008, Japan's Hitachi and US giant General Electric team up to sell midsize nuclear reactors to meet growing demand for power facilities in Southeast Asia, a Hitachi spokesman said. So it is a business opportunity for these MNCs and that all the countries in Southeast Asia have to buy our nuclear technology from abroad. Please keep in mind the debacle of the Philippine Bataan Nuclear Energy plant and its failure leaving the Filipinos with a debt of US$2.2 billion (see point 3 (iii) for relevant link).


2. Japan Leading Nuclear Energy Country:

Japan, which generates 29 percent of its power from nuclear energy, has two plants under construction with 10 more planned. More than that, as Gavan McCormack observes, Japan positions itself as a “plutonium superpower,” not only as the world’s most committed nuclear country but, even as one “nuclear obsessed.” By this it is meant that, alone among non-nuclear weapon states, Japan pursues the full nuclear cycle in which plutonium is used as fuel after the reprocessing of spent reactor waste, just as Japan has accumulated more than 45 tonnes of plutonium or almost one fifth of the global stock of civil plutonium.


3. Earthquake and Other Risks Like Terrorists:

(i) Asia is prone to shattering earthquakes, volcanoes and tsunamis - a continuing challenge for nuclear power regulators and managers will be seismic hazard and the associated risk of catastrophic radiation leakage. The 12 May 2009 earthquake in China that destroyed large swathes of southwestern Sichuan province killing more than 67,000 people, is a reminder, if one were needed, of how suddenly a tremor can strike and how much damage it can do.

(ii) The risks of nuclear power plants in geologically unstable zones was dramatically highlighted by the impact of an earthquake upon the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa nuclear power plant in Niigata Prefecture on 16 July 2007. Fortified to withstand earthquakes as strong as 6.5 on the Richter scale, the plant nevertheless suffered a fire and leakage... But in the past two years, three incidents occurred--at the Onagawa Plant (August 2005); the Shika Plant (March 2007); and the Kashiwazaki Plant, respectively. In each case the maximum ground motion was greater than seismic design criteria of the plants. And I believe that Japanese standards of nuclear safety is the highest we can strive for in Southeast Asia.

(iii) There is an article on the promises and pitfalls for Southeast Asia. These risks are to be managed. I hope that all countries contemplating nuclear power each have a good crisis management plan. You decide if you want our officials to manage such projects given the inevitability of human error. Please note that the Russians are playing a leading role in encouraging nuclear energy use in Indonesia and Myanmar. I am also reminded of the Russian safety record that has improved tremendously since Chernobyl.
 
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Tavarisch

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Malaysia doesn't have Earthquakes IIRC.

Aside from monsoons which happen in their respective seasons. These aren't even earthquakes and assuming that they were to threaten our plant all we have to do is move it inland.

I don't see how we are geologically unstable. I am not sure of Borneo but Semenanjung is definitely clear of geologically instability. So, this puts this factor out of the question. For Malaysia at least.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Tavarisch said:
Let's try to be polite here. Judging by your tone, you don't look like you are gonna play nice. We don't want a war here. (Ironically, this is a defense thread)
Thanks for being a voice of moderation.

Malaysia doesn't have Earthquakes IIRC.
I am aware that Malaysia doesn't have Earthquakes. Please try to read and apply what I wrote in the intended context, which was intended to be illustrative and not literal.:D

You have not understood my point, which was, the inevitability of human error. It was Japanese human error (when properly understood and commonly called the unknown-unknowns) that resulted in specifying seismic design criteria that was inadequate for maximum ground motion actually encountered.

I live in Singapore, our peoples are kindred cousins with a shared history and related geography. So please give me a bit of credit? :rolleyes:

The most compelling ideology in the world today is not religion. It is success. We are burning away our future in Indonesia, with the forest fires (from my point of view, there must be more that Singapore can do and is not doing). We in ASEAN are divided by mistrust. And we are sales targets for arms and nuclear power plant salesmen who have their own agenda. What have we succeed in doing together (save talk and not shoot each other in ASEAN)? We in our region do not have a record of success in managing corruption or good stewardship of our environment. Do we have the complex regulatory environment necessary to ensure the safe use of nuclear power in Southeast Asia? That is why the devil is in the details.
 
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Tavarisch

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Thanks for being a voice of moderation.



I am aware that Malaysia doesn't have Earthquakes. Please try to read and apply what I wrote in the intended context, which was intended to be illustrative and not literal.:D

You have not understood my point, which was, the inevitability of human error. It was Japanese human error (when properly understood and commonly called the unknown-unknowns) that resulted in specifying seismic design criteria that was inadequate for maximum ground motion actually encountered.

I live in Singapore, our peoples are kindred cousins with a shared history and related geography. So please give me a bit of credit? :rolleyes:

The most compelling ideology in the world today is not religion. It is success. We are burning away our future in Indonesia, with the forest fires (from my point of view, there must be more that Singapore can do and is not doing). We in ASEAN are divided by mistrust. And we are sales targets for arms and nuclear power plant salesmen who have their own agenda. What have we succeed in doing together (save talk and not shoot each other in ASEAN)? We in our region do not have a record of success in managing corruption or good stewardship of our environment. Do we have the complex regulatory environment necessary to ensure the safe use of nuclear power in Southeast Asia? That is why the devil is in the details.

I agree. We SEA-ans have not done anything together that is of significance. Save for, as you say, not shooting at each other. There must be something we can do to build up some trust.....

Humans will always be humans. I never said there was perfect one and if such human were to exist, then our purpose of existence is moot. As people would say, we should learn from the mistakes of our past.

Chernobyl is a woeful example of human error. IIRC, they didn't coordinate a test properly or something that lead to a fatal blow. Then appeared the 30km Zone with mutant zombies and three-headed pigs. (JK :eek:nfloorl: )

The best thing to do for once is to trust each other. I know trust doesn't come with a nice price tag, but there must be something that we can do.

Maybe, just maybe, we could make this a joint thing? I mean scientists from Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia should have this big conference and start talking about a purely SEA-an Nuclear Power Plant.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
We in our region do not have a record of success in managing corruption or good stewardship of our environment. Do we have the complex regulatory environment necessary to ensure the safe use of nuclear power in Southeast Asia? That is why the devil is in the details.
Indonesia since the 60's already operating small research nuclear reactors. We have three now (in Bandung, Jogjakarta, and Serpong-Jakarta). All in densely populated urban area. The largest in Serpong is a 30 MW reactor. In fact the one in Serpong also included with nuclear fuel enrichment facility (off course not for weapon grade).

It may be small, but considering that those three located in Urban area (in Bandung less than 500 m from urban population), and with ZERO accident for overall 40 years in operation, show that safe nuclear protocols still can be conducted even with hugely inefficient buerocratic environment like here in Indonesia. Afterall small nuclear reactor is in principle demand the same safety protocols as the large ones (IAEA standard).

For us, the plan for our first commercialy reactor ( 4 x 300 - 500 MW) in mount muria has been conducted since the 80's, on and off base on political situation and will.

At short only two main reason why it's not in full motion,
1. The costs, it gain more support after the huge increase on oil price,
2. We don't have sufficient uranium deposits in here, thus has to relly with outside supply. Something that nationalist in here do not like.

Enviroment activists off course show Vocal oppositions, but in the end if the price of energy keep soaring, it will come out eventually.
 

tosho daimos

New Member
the nuclear is safe to use if it properly handle, very2 good security, proper maintainance...
( i always nucleared myself with lots of chilies... hehehe :D )
 
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