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LM/USN RE-DESIGNATE LRDR AS AN/SPY 7 (V) 1

Discussion in 'Navy & Maritime' started by DAVID DUNLOP, Nov 15, 2019.

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  1. DAVID DUNLOP

    DAVID DUNLOP New Member

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    Hi Rangitoto. You may be right, however, I'm sure over the past 20 years Thales would have up-graded and improved this APAR Block 1 to the point of a modern 4-sided Phased Array SSR (APAR Block 2)? I don't think the RCN would want 20 year old (25 years before we see it) technology and try to integrate it with the S Band SPY 7 (V) 1. Just wouldn't work. It would be great if LM were to invest in say, an X Band (SPY 7 (V) 4 ?), to compliment the SPY 7 (V) 1 S Band LRDR. If so, why would LM not just create a Dual Band (S+X) SPY 7 (V) 1. If that were the case, why do I still see some sort of X Band radar on every image of the CSC Frigate (either on the top or bottom of the SPY 7(V) 1). I am still leaning towards APAR Block 2 X Band radar. The more I think of it, the more confusing this mystery becomes. One thing is for sure. The CSC Frigate needs some sort of modern X Band SSR to compliment the SPY 7 (V) 1 and integrate seamlessly with the CMS 330 and possible BMD capability down the road. So if not APAR Block 2, then what? Cheers! :(
     
  2. Calculus

    Calculus Active Member

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    Hi David, I'm not sure I fully understood your points in this post, but I have to agree with @Rangitoto that APAR Block 1 is no longer in production. In other words, that radar shown on the CSC models can't be APAR block 1. Logic would dictate it is the Indra 25X that @Rangitoto linked in a previous post, given it and the AN/SPY7 will be fully integrated for the F110, and qualified for the same missile load-out as CSC (ESSM, and SM-x), but those panels are clearly rectangular, not square. Also puzzling is the models I have seem of F110 show separate illuminators (SPG-62), so it would appear that the Indra 25X is NOT optimized for the illuminator role, which would seem to rule it out as a candidate, notwithstanding it is also rectangular in shape. The only X-band radar I have come across that is both square in shape and designed for missile control is the Leonardo Kronos Starfire, but I have no idea if it would support ESSM and SM-x. Leonardo does have a large presence in Canada, however, so this is not totally outside the realm of the possible. Why Canada would choose this system over APAR Block 2 however, which has a large amount of Canadian content, and is purpose designed to support the same missions and missiles, is puzzling, to say the least.

    With regards to MDA, they have extensive experience designing and building synthetic aperture radars for Radarsat 1 and 2, and the Radarsat Constellation, so it is possible they could build this radar. Also, MDA is a Tier 1 supplier to CSC, and as such is tasked (among other things) to "Build an advanced radar system critical to the integrated CSC weapons system, which is well positioned to be exported to the global naval market." (Source: February 8, 2019 - MDA Selected for Design Phase of Canadian Surface Combatant Program, go to second bullet). This suggests MDA is responsible for this radar. That could mean anything from designing and building to sourcing, however, so until the CSC final design details become public we will probably not know for sure the make and model of this radar. However, I think we can be fairly certain that whatever is chosen it will be top-of-the-line kit, given the selection of the AN/SPY-7.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019 at 6:46 PM
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  3. DAVID DUNLOP

    DAVID DUNLOP New Member

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    Hi Calculus. Some very insightful thoughts. I do think however that although MDA will be working in consort with LM to integrate the SPY 7(V) 1 radar for the CSC, I don't believe that they are going to develop another "new" radar on their own at this time. I believe the RCN has already chosen the "X" Band Multi-Function Radar they want and MDA is sourcing it out. I believe that the CSC X Band radar will still come from Thales Corp. If you take a look at their latest offering for the French Navy's new Frigates, you will see that the SEA FIRE 500 S and X Band radars are paramount as per below. Their S Band radar will be "ground-based" for the French Army. Leonardo Kronos has also been working with the Italian Navy to work on their versions of the same radar system, yes, one called the STARFIRE (C Band) and the other called the SEA FIRE (X Band). Both radars are made by Thales Group. The SEA FIRE 500 X Band seems to be just right for CSC. Cheers!

    Thales Sea Fire 500-Full Digital AESA Multi-Function X Band Radar

    upload_2019-12-1_16-31-25.gif upload_2019-12-1_16-31-25.gif

    MULTIMISSION:
    SF is a true Multi Mission Radar delivering superior performance for all missions simultaneously, through dynamic radar resources management with very short response time.
    • Air surveillance and defence: from self defence to large area air defence
    • Surface surveillance and defence
    • Ballistic missile surveillance and defence
    • ASTER Missile fire control
    • Surface gun fire support
    • C-RAM
    • Fully digital and software controlled processing: all missions performed by dedicated software applications.

    SCALABLE RADAR:
    Thanks to its modular architecture, Sea Fire can be installed on light frigates or up to destroyers. The advanced surveillance and fire control capabilities of the compact Sea Fire will endow each ship with a performance and fire power of a ship a few thousand tons heavier. It transforms a multipurpose frigate into an AAW frigate or even a multipurpose destroyer.

    OPERATIONAL AVAILIBILITY:
    The modern architecture of the Sea Fire family is intrinsically designed for redundancy and graceful degradation ensuring continuity of the mission, even on extended patrols far away from its home base. Maintenance is performed during the mission at sea in the protected environment of the mast and with a very limited number of LRUs and standard tools.

    KEY FEATURES:
    • Air surveillance coverage: Up to 500 km +
    • Surface surveillance coverage: 80 km +
    • Coverage: 360° in azimuth, 90° in elevation
    • Tracking capacity: > 800 air and surface targets
    • Track update automatically adapted to target characteristics and free of any antenna constraints.
    • Enhanced surveillance capability on all targets: slow moving & very low RCS, or supersonic highly maneuvering stealth targets
    • Supports ASTER 15, ASTER 30 and ASTER 30 B1 NT in their whole performance envelope with fire control and autonomous surveillance coverage: No cueing required.
    • Growth potential through software releases to add new missions to handle new threats and new features such as enhanced ECCM and NCTR.

    @DAVID DUNLOP Can you please post a link for this info. It's one of the rules here. Also lots of bold is lots of shouting.
    Ngatimozart.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019 at 7:42 PM
  4. DAVID DUNLOP

    DAVID DUNLOP New Member

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    Hi Ngatimozart. Sorry about the bolding & under-lining. Just a habit. I have corrected all. Google "Thales Sea Fire 500 Radar" and you will find all the info on this radar along with a couple of videos as well. Cheers!
     
  5. ngatimozart

    ngatimozart Super Moderator Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    @DAVID DUNLOP the linking sourcing requirement is to prevent claims of plagiarism being levelled against you and the forum. We take this very seriously and telling people just to Google it, especially a Moderator is very bad form, and can lead to the red ink being used and very cranky Moderators. So I very strongly suggest that you do as I originally asked, or this Moderator will get very cranky quickly. It is a requirement that you follow a Moderators directions.
     
  6. DAVID DUNLOP

    DAVID DUNLOP New Member

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    Hi ngatmozart. I have sourced much of my research on several sites. Here is what I have:

    https://www.thalesgroup.com › medias › content
    upload_2019-12-3_20-42-29.gif
    upload_2019-12-3_20-43-12.gif
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjlycnb2prmAhVPjlkKHQy6BnEQwqsBMAF6BAgKEAc&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DlFVxj6sIf7w&usg=AOvVaw1xFQAyjhZyy6YfTzXjpJ49

    Leonardo demos outstanding BMD capabilities ... - Naval News
    Naval News - Global Naval Defense News Coverage › News

    C4ISRNET, Media for the Intelligence-Age Military | C4ISRNET › industry › 2017/12/06 › leonardo-works-on-eu...
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019 at 12:57 AM