FARHAN_KHAN007
New Member
looking good :mrgreen
JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 / Super-7 Discussions
- Thread starter kilo_4que
- Start date
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Also why Turkey has no need for it? & Who will stop China from selling these Jets to NKorea. China would almost give away any thing for free to Nkorea & Pak for their defence.
(These are not counter question adsh, I really want answers)
Meanwhile here is the list of Nations, I believe will like to buy JF-17/FC-1
1.Bangladesh
2.Viatnam
3.N Korea
4. Philipines (maybe)
5. Egypt (considering)
6. Saudi Arabia
7. Chilie
8. Argentina (may be-Requires cheap Jets)
9.Libya
10. Morocco (May be-looking for cheap jets)
11. Central Asian Nations (Balkan States or break away republics of Russia)
12.Seria
13. Iran (maybe)
14. African Nations
15. Some poor European Nations ( May be it is because of these poor European NAtions that France shows interest in JF-17, With France partner in it can sell these Jets to Europeans nations earn Revenue & can expands its market there. Maybe France wants to open a retail market for these Jets in France for Poorer European countries- European Branch-. U may be right about partnership adsH)
Anways any one who disagrees on any nation i have pointed out please give reasons for that country for not buying JF-17 & if u think i ve missed some countries plz tell their names.
Why cant France be interested in buying these jets? (ok the actual words I heard was that France is interested in the project, i dint hear buying or in making).adsH said:this is got to be a joke france is interested in a fighter like this they may be interested in providing electronics for it. and become a partner in the program. but i doubt they want to induct these. ok North K is impossible the US would not allow such a deal!! and what would they pay Pak with (low quality Scuds). Bangladesh is a reality. and saudi are very interested. Eygypt may be coerced. Turkey has no need for these, Chile is a possible country. BUt the main thing which is good and very attractive is that Pak can offer these jets for 15 mill each i think that with French and western avionics included its amazing, A country that could not produce washing powder a decade ago can now produce high quality jets!! (no offense to my Pakistani Freinds).
Also why Turkey has no need for it? & Who will stop China from selling these Jets to NKorea. China would almost give away any thing for free to Nkorea & Pak for their defence.
(These are not counter question adsh, I really want answers)
Meanwhile here is the list of Nations, I believe will like to buy JF-17/FC-1
1.Bangladesh
2.Viatnam
3.N Korea
4. Philipines (maybe)
5. Egypt (considering)
6. Saudi Arabia
7. Chilie
8. Argentina (may be-Requires cheap Jets)
9.Libya
10. Morocco (May be-looking for cheap jets)
11. Central Asian Nations (Balkan States or break away republics of Russia)
12.Seria
13. Iran (maybe)
14. African Nations
15. Some poor European Nations ( May be it is because of these poor European NAtions that France shows interest in JF-17, With France partner in it can sell these Jets to Europeans nations earn Revenue & can expands its market there. Maybe France wants to open a retail market for these Jets in France for Poorer European countries- European Branch-. U may be right about partnership adsH)
Anways any one who disagrees on any nation i have pointed out please give reasons for that country for not buying JF-17 & if u think i ve missed some countries plz tell their names.
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
1.Bangladesh - Not that enamoured with China - especially after 1971
2.Viatnam - Militarily in conflict with China (Spratlys)
3.N Korea - possibly
4. Philipines (maybe) - Militarily in conflict with China (Spratlys)
5. Egypt (considering) - Unlikely as already has streamlined its logistics base
6. Saudi Arabia - Unlikely as already has streamlined its logistics base
7. Chilie - No
8. Argentina (may be-Requires cheap Jets) - No
9.Libya - Unlikely while it is a western rapproachment phase
10. Morocco (May be-looking for cheap jets) - No - Is committed to French and US aircraft
11. Central Asian Nations (Balkan States or break away republics of Russia) - Unlikely as FSU would apply leverage
12.Serbia - Strong historical ally of FSR/Russia - will not buy from anyone who has emnity to a "relative" and historical ally
13. Iran (maybe)
14. African Nations - which ones? The largest countries are Euro/US/Russian clients
15. Some poor European Nations - If they are in the EU then membership requires an integrated force structure that is commonly supported within. ie NO Chinese aircraft. All recently joined NATO members are either getting Gripens, Cheap F-16's (as in almost gifted), or have had their Mig 29's and or Mig 21's upgraded to meet the NATO interop requirements. Non NATO states are Russian clients - there is no way that an already embattled FSU aircraft industry will allow the State to not put pressure on states looking at Chinese solutions.
1.Bangladesh - Not that enamoured with China - especially after 1971
2.Viatnam - Militarily in conflict with China (Spratlys)
3.N Korea - possibly
4. Philipines (maybe) - Militarily in conflict with China (Spratlys)
5. Egypt (considering) - Unlikely as already has streamlined its logistics base
6. Saudi Arabia - Unlikely as already has streamlined its logistics base
7. Chilie - No
8. Argentina (may be-Requires cheap Jets) - No
9.Libya - Unlikely while it is a western rapproachment phase
10. Morocco (May be-looking for cheap jets) - No - Is committed to French and US aircraft
11. Central Asian Nations (Balkan States or break away republics of Russia) - Unlikely as FSU would apply leverage
12.Serbia - Strong historical ally of FSR/Russia - will not buy from anyone who has emnity to a "relative" and historical ally
13. Iran (maybe)
14. African Nations - which ones? The largest countries are Euro/US/Russian clients
15. Some poor European Nations - If they are in the EU then membership requires an integrated force structure that is commonly supported within. ie NO Chinese aircraft. All recently joined NATO members are either getting Gripens, Cheap F-16's (as in almost gifted), or have had their Mig 29's and or Mig 21's upgraded to meet the NATO interop requirements. Non NATO states are Russian clients - there is no way that an already embattled FSU aircraft industry will allow the State to not put pressure on states looking at Chinese solutions.
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Anyways good resons. Makes me rethink. But I m waiting 4 others to say some thing b4 jumping to any conclusions. Being a Business Student & marketing major If i was to market JF-17 I would target countries i mentioned above.
MiG-29 is a beautiful Jet But I dont think MiG-22 is going to servive very long about 5-6 more yrs or so. The best replacement is JF-17.
Many countries r using Mig 19 & 22 because they cant afford other Russian or US jets. they need some thing Cheap & JF-17 is the best option.
So all the countries using MiG 19 & 21 & 22 will go 4 JF-17 & should go for it.
Bnagladesh is going considering JF-17 I provided the link previously as a proof. Dint say nothing about Serbia man, I said "Seria( Shaam)" (recoment on that). Viatnam President visited Pak this year for not only friendship but for military help as well & also asked President Musharaf to help bride Viatnam China relations. Viatnam I would say is going 2 buy JF-17.gf0012 said:
Anyways good resons. Makes me rethink. But I m waiting 4 others to say some thing b4 jumping to any conclusions. Being a Business Student & marketing major If i was to market JF-17 I would target countries i mentioned above.
MiG-29 is a beautiful Jet But I dont think MiG-22 is going to servive very long about 5-6 more yrs or so. The best replacement is JF-17.
Many countries r using Mig 19 & 22 because they cant afford other Russian or US jets. they need some thing Cheap & JF-17 is the best option.
So all the countries using MiG 19 & 21 & 22 will go 4 JF-17 & should go for it.
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
MiG-29 is a beautiful Jet But I dont think MiG-22 is going to servive very long about 5-6 more yrs or so. The best replacement is JF-17.
Many countries r using Mig 19 & 22 because they cant afford other Russian or US jets. they need some thing Cheap & JF-17 is the best option.
So all the countries using MiG 19 & 21 & 22 will go 4 JF-17 & should go for it.
what are you talking about???
fc-1 is basicaly a single engined mig-29 minus the superior thrust to weight,and aerodynamics
a mig-29 can be purchased at around 15 million per copy if one buys atleast 100
a fc-1 will cost about 15 million per unit for 150
the mig-29 and fc-1 have the same cost the mig-29 however is 1.5-3 times the aircraft that the fc-1 is.
I dont know why people think Pakistan can export the fc-1 , Im sure russia will not sell pakistan the engines for its aircraft if they are seen as hurting russian aircraft chances.
MiG-29 is a beautiful Jet But I dont think MiG-22 is going to servive very long about 5-6 more yrs or so. The best replacement is JF-17.
Many countries r using Mig 19 & 22 because they cant afford other Russian or US jets. they need some thing Cheap & JF-17 is the best option.
So all the countries using MiG 19 & 21 & 22 will go 4 JF-17 & should go for it.
what are you talking about???
fc-1 is basicaly a single engined mig-29 minus the superior thrust to weight,and aerodynamics
a mig-29 can be purchased at around 15 million per copy if one buys atleast 100
a fc-1 will cost about 15 million per unit for 150
the mig-29 and fc-1 have the same cost the mig-29 however is 1.5-3 times the aircraft that the fc-1 is.
I dont know why people think Pakistan can export the fc-1 , Im sure russia will not sell pakistan the engines for its aircraft if they are seen as hurting russian aircraft chances.
The Watcher
New Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Lybian i always had thouht that Mig 29 was a high maintainance Jet, are you sure it unit cost is 15 mill indeed thats a good price. but i have always seen Mig29 as inferior design its older and unless the israelis don't redo the Sub-sytem i can't seem to look at it with respect.Libyan said:
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
The right pilot, the right symbiotic AEW support and the right weaps loadout would make it a very irritating adversary.
The Mig-29 that the Israelis modified for the Romanians is probably the penultimate Mig-29, but a base Fulcrum is still a nasty piece of work in the right hands.
I would not be under-estimating a late build Mig-29 with a competent pilot.adsH said:
The right pilot, the right symbiotic AEW support and the right weaps loadout would make it a very irritating adversary.
The Mig-29 that the Israelis modified for the Romanians is probably the penultimate Mig-29, but a base Fulcrum is still a nasty piece of work in the right hands.
Londo Molari
New Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Wrong. Even the oldest base model won't come that cheap.
Right.
Yeah, the newest JF-17 and the oldest Mig-29 cost the same. The JF-17 will obviously have superior avionics, radar, EW suite and a pilot-friendly cockpit compared to the Mig-29.
Because China has a contract with them. If Russia breaks it, and stop giving us the engine, China will reverse engineer the engine and use their own version, and that will mean lost sales of engines for Russia. The choice is the Russians'... but just watch... they aren't going to stop providing the engine at all
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Granted Mig 29 are potent But i was not too sure it could ever cost 15 mill a piece
The Russians have to sell those Engines or they would violate a contract that would cause there industry to suffer Chinese already have a derivative.
Londo Molari said:Wrong. Even the oldest base model won't come that cheap.
Right.
Yeah, the newest JF-17 and the oldest Mig-29 cost the same. The JF-17 will obviously have superior avionics, radar, EW suite and a pilot-friendly cockpit compared to the Mig-29.
Because China has a contract with them. If Russia breaks it, and stop giving us the engine, China will reverse engineer the engine and use their own version, and that will mean lost sales of engines for Russia. The choice is the Russians'... but just watch... they aren't going to stop providing the engine at all
Granted Mig 29 are potent But i was not too sure it could ever cost 15 mill a piece
The Russians have to sell those Engines or they would violate a contract that would cause there industry to suffer Chinese already have a derivative.
Deltared075
New Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
what you expect the price for a second-hand Mig29?
The Russian want to sell all it old stuff so they can buy new.
Basic airframe will sell around 15 millions but if you want upgrade then it another story.
what you expect the price for a second-hand Mig29?
The Russian want to sell all it old stuff so they can buy new.
Basic airframe will sell around 15 millions but if you want upgrade then it another story.
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
ahh i just finished reading a four pages full of PAF ACM and other higher up Officers Interview, the AFM. i think the AFM was quite impressed by The PAF ACM and there tour of the Facilities, they are now upgrading the 14 more mirage 5ET
to Rose 3 configuration,
The FLIR will not be included in the first initial JF-17 but the mirages are being completely overhauled engines body structure the Avionics are being upgraded and all this is being done by this huge Engineering core of PAC karma, the AFM said this "The JF-17 is arguably the only fighter that has been designed and developed By an air-force", and it states that the Chinese are more interested in buying the westernized and PAF standard avionics for the JF-17 if they ever go for it, something they have never had access to (western Avionics) !!!
they (AFM) also said this " With its (PAF) huge aerospace engineering expertise and the drive for indigenisation, the PAF is set to aquire a very good multi role fighter aircraft that can provide it with its one real desire the Before visual Range Capability it currently lacks".
and i think if i am not blabbering Bulls here J-10 are available to PAF and they are on the decision stages , the Avionics of the J-10 are being designed in assistance with the PAC karma Engineers, i know its something hard to grasp but i think the Chinese are quiet clever and sharp they pick stuff quickly they just need A direction to point to.
ths is what the AFM quoted the Air Vice marshal Shahid lateef, chief project Director of the JF 17. the Decoupling has allowed PAF to compare and help out with Avionics development in other Chinese projects.
this is after the Sanctions after the Nuke testing. "So we went on a tour of chinese factories that were building the J-10 to look at their avionics, but we were not impressed. however they promissed to improve their technologies, and with our guidance - and more time - they have met our expectations and we now have an avionics package available. the avionics system is now on on the test bench and we hope to integrate it on to the aircraft by the end of 2005- we don't want to waste much time. i am impressed with the chinese so far- this is the first Aircraft to be desinged by china and Pakistan in a truly joint collaboration. " End of quote
!!!!
PAAF ACM also said we can never operate a completely Chinese AC, so i think they are thinking of Hybridizing all the Chinese Airframes with WEstern and Locally Pakistani developed Avionics. And he also said we have not rulled out the Possibility of Western AC being inducted for our future fleet, but PAF is very Irritated about all the sanctions and all other political clearance and i think he wants to develop a complete indigenous ability. i think they are still looking for new western AC, they have not had a chance to Fly the J-10 as its still being developed. the Only option i see is for them to either go for Mirages 2k5 or the orignal 32 MLU and 18 additional MLU + purchase and i think they want 24 new gen F-16 if they can, but he didn't even rule out the Swedes, PAF is still very Pissed off on a deal that took place for some Fighter AC between the Swedes and the PAF in 1971 but because of the tension the Swedes sold the Jets to Australia. the Six excess C-130 from the the Australian Airforce which the US is giving to the PAF are still being upgraded, but the process is too slow the Fist of the six have just entered in the lockheed martin upgrade facility.
PAAF IS working on some main areas fighter gaps for delivering the Missile to there Targets the Missiles its self BVR, sophisticated indigenous Avionics and EW suites, and the AWACS systems and the airborne refueling ability. the rest are various Training syllabuses are being revised Simulators are being USed to train more pilots and all the existing trainers are being phased out with new K8 being incorporated. more flying time are being Introduced on the newer gen jets as they phase inn.
ahh i just finished reading a four pages full of PAF ACM and other higher up Officers Interview, the AFM. i think the AFM was quite impressed by The PAF ACM and there tour of the Facilities, they are now upgrading the 14 more mirage 5ET
to Rose 3 configuration,
The FLIR will not be included in the first initial JF-17 but the mirages are being completely overhauled engines body structure the Avionics are being upgraded and all this is being done by this huge Engineering core of PAC karma, the AFM said this "The JF-17 is arguably the only fighter that has been designed and developed By an air-force", and it states that the Chinese are more interested in buying the westernized and PAF standard avionics for the JF-17 if they ever go for it, something they have never had access to (western Avionics) !!!
they (AFM) also said this " With its (PAF) huge aerospace engineering expertise and the drive for indigenisation, the PAF is set to aquire a very good multi role fighter aircraft that can provide it with its one real desire the Before visual Range Capability it currently lacks".
and i think if i am not blabbering Bulls here J-10 are available to PAF and they are on the decision stages , the Avionics of the J-10 are being designed in assistance with the PAC karma Engineers, i know its something hard to grasp but i think the Chinese are quiet clever and sharp they pick stuff quickly they just need A direction to point to.
ths is what the AFM quoted the Air Vice marshal Shahid lateef, chief project Director of the JF 17. the Decoupling has allowed PAF to compare and help out with Avionics development in other Chinese projects.
this is after the Sanctions after the Nuke testing. "So we went on a tour of chinese factories that were building the J-10 to look at their avionics, but we were not impressed. however they promissed to improve their technologies, and with our guidance - and more time - they have met our expectations and we now have an avionics package available. the avionics system is now on on the test bench and we hope to integrate it on to the aircraft by the end of 2005- we don't want to waste much time. i am impressed with the chinese so far- this is the first Aircraft to be desinged by china and Pakistan in a truly joint collaboration. " End of quote
!!!!
PAAF ACM also said we can never operate a completely Chinese AC, so i think they are thinking of Hybridizing all the Chinese Airframes with WEstern and Locally Pakistani developed Avionics. And he also said we have not rulled out the Possibility of Western AC being inducted for our future fleet, but PAF is very Irritated about all the sanctions and all other political clearance and i think he wants to develop a complete indigenous ability. i think they are still looking for new western AC, they have not had a chance to Fly the J-10 as its still being developed. the Only option i see is for them to either go for Mirages 2k5 or the orignal 32 MLU and 18 additional MLU + purchase and i think they want 24 new gen F-16 if they can, but he didn't even rule out the Swedes, PAF is still very Pissed off on a deal that took place for some Fighter AC between the Swedes and the PAF in 1971 but because of the tension the Swedes sold the Jets to Australia. the Six excess C-130 from the the Australian Airforce which the US is giving to the PAF are still being upgraded, but the process is too slow the Fist of the six have just entered in the lockheed martin upgrade facility.
PAAF IS working on some main areas fighter gaps for delivering the Missile to there Targets the Missiles its self BVR, sophisticated indigenous Avionics and EW suites, and the AWACS systems and the airborne refueling ability. the rest are various Training syllabuses are being revised Simulators are being USed to train more pilots and all the existing trainers are being phased out with new K8 being incorporated. more flying time are being Introduced on the newer gen jets as they phase inn.
Deltared075
New Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Just LCA... and LCA again...???
Ok, J10 and JF17 maybe got other fighter design involve but don't mean they not good...
LCA was something new but it don't make it good either.
Why? you want another India-Pakistan conflict to see which better?
Just LCA... and LCA again...???
Ok, J10 and JF17 maybe got other fighter design involve but don't mean they not good...
LCA was something new but it don't make it good either.
Why? you want another India-Pakistan conflict to see which better?
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
i think youve misunderstood my previous message and the Intent of it my previous message was not to provoke a war or a conflict between posters hear but it was to tell everyone the options available to PAF, apperently they have very little available !!! and i haven't mentioned anything about the LCA here, i was just telling the Forum and it users the option that the PAF ACM Spelt out in his Interview with "Air Force Monthly".Deltared075 said: