JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 / Super-7 Discussions

[darklegent]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Saber all that comes to my mind is that the Jf-17 was made primary built for Pakistan with India in mind in the 1990 with technological upgradations of say 20 years in mind (plz do not get the Su-30s and AWACs in the picture). the J-10 were made with Taiwan and their allies USA in mind. the Jf-17 is more of a soviet / russian school of design. The J-10 uses a more Western approach, afterall we all know that it was built upon the Lavi to Chinese tactical requirements.
The Chinese will replace all their crap outdated sh*t Mig 21 and Mig-19 copies with a up to date Superb fighterjet - the J-10. The jf-17 does not fit into the present requirement.
Another issue that we shud put our thoughts to is that the Jf-17 compares to the F-16 where as the J-10 compares BETTER to the F-16 and the F-18. When these two are mentioned it means that the j-10 was always meant to take on the american land based and carrier based aircraft. I would personally not risk putting in the jf-17 in a BVR or dogfight with either of those american birds. But against the Indian airfoce (plz do not get the Su-30s and AWACs in the picture) well that would be another story.

 

[mysterious]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Yup, the Chinese know that Indian Airforce is just another Russian Airforce wing (atleast in the aircraft inventory department).

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Yup, the Chinese know that Indian Airforce is just another Russian Airforce wing (atleast in the aircraft inventory department).

well, except for the fact that they also have a high proportion of french aircraft as well.... IIRC their nuclear strike aircraft are all french.

 

[adsH]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

GF why are we even talking about nukes on AC. i personally think its a Flaud IDEA!! wouldn't the Pilot dye when he deploys the wepons on the Gound i doubt he would be able to run away from the Blast Radius that quickly. i relay don't wan't to see Brave well trained pilots risking ther live for such an Idiotic role when there are BM do the JOb and alot better, wouldn't you agree.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

GF why are we even talking about nukes on AC. i personally think its a Flaud IDEA!! wouldn't the Pilot dye when he deploys the wepons on the Gound i doubt he would be able to run away from the Blast Radius that quickly. i relay don't wan't to see Brave well trained pilots risking ther live for such an Idiotic role when there are BM do the JOb and alot better, wouldn't you agree.

Nope, a fast moving jet aircraft can be well out of the way of a nuke after deployment. Plus the aircraft used are typically shielded.

Any pilot who wants to hang around after the event would be slightly crazy.

There are also a number of tactical reasons why you would use an aircraft for delivery over a ballistic missile.

 

[SABRE]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Saber all that comes to my mind is that the Jf-17 was made primary built for Pakistan with India in mind in the 1990 with technological upgradations of say 20 years in mind (plz do not get the Su-30s and AWACs in the picture). the J-10 were made with Taiwan and their allies USA in mind. the Jf-17 is more of a soviet / russian school of design. The J-10 uses a more Western approach, afterall we all know that it was built upon the Lavi to Chinese tactical requirements.
The Chinese will replace all their crap outdated sh*t Mig 21 and Mig-19 copies with a up to date Superb fighterjet - the J-10. The jf-17 does not fit into the present requirement.
Another issue that we shud put our thoughts to is that the Jf-17 compares to the F-16 where as the J-10 compares BETTER to the F-16 and the F-18. When these two are mentioned it means that the j-10 was always meant to take on the american land based and carrier based aircraft. I would personally not risk putting in the jf-17 in a BVR or dogfight with either of those american birds. But against the Indian airfoce (plz do not get the Su-30s and AWACs in the picture) well that would be another story.

J-10 to replace all the MiG-19, 21 & other oldies......Think of the finance & strategies. One jet for Attack & defence purpose. Come on..if it is so than JF-17 being equal to F-16s v have, PAF should get rid of all the Jets & bring in JF-17. J-10 is better than F-16 & maY be similar F-18 but China cant repalce it with its other jets.

"Their principle military opponent uses russian aircraft... it's the closest thing they can do to undertake DACT. "gf0012

Well gf0012 thank..u give me another reson for why China is going for J-10. Think if China goes to war with this friendof Russia's. Russia promises to suport its friend rather than China, then whome would China turn to. They cant turn to Pak for technical help, specially in the air defence. So they make J-10 equall to SU-27. If their supply stops on SU-27 China still has J-10 to take care of things.

 

[adsH]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

GF why are we even talking about nukes on AC. i personally think its a Flaud IDEA!! wouldn't the Pilot dye when he deploys the wepons on the Gound i doubt he would be able to run away from the Blast Radius that quickly. i relay don't wan't to see Brave well trained pilots risking ther live for such an Idiotic role when there are BM do the JOb and alot better, wouldn't you agree.

Nope, a fast moving jet aircraft can be well out of the way of a nuke after deployment. Plus the aircraft used are typically shielded.

Any pilot who wants to hang around after the event would be slightly crazy.

There are also a number of tactical reasons why you would use an aircraft for delivery over a ballistic missile.

is that becasue you have the element of sunrise first strike is more efficient!! i guess so but now inDia has Those AWACS a good Anti AC SAM system Fast Interceptors and HEll lot of security. they would be able to identify a Fast Mach Object Probably an F-16 Flying at any level and they would-know what that F-16 is for!! SCARRYY !!!

 

[P.A.F]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

NOT UNLESS WE SHOOT IT DOWN ONLY JOKING.

 

[darklegent]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Yes Saber the chinese will replace the migs with the j-10. China is slowly moving to becoming a economic power with a surplus of more then a $100 billion trade surplus (plz look up the American trade statistics for more details). The other reason is that if they were to use those outdated migs against the present American Airfleet the chinese pilots wud be chow-mein. .

As of the nuclear bomb being dropped and the pilot being caught in the shock wave of the blast...... there are something known as stand off missiles which glide on their own wing span before ignition of the rocket motor. This increase the range of the delivery weapon. But then that is another issue of discussion.

 

[adsH]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Yes Saber the chinese will replace the migs with the j-10. China is slowly moving to becoming a economic power with a surplus of more then a $100 billion trade surplus (plz look up the American trade statistics for more details). The other reason is that if they were to use those outdated migs against the present American Airfleet the chinese pilots wud be chow-mein. .

As of the nuclear bomb being dropped and the pilot being caught in the shock wave of the blast...... there are something known as stand off missiles which glide on their own wing span before ignition of the rocket motor. This increase the range of the delivery weapon. But then that is another issue of discussion.

I know what a glide missile is but the question is not of; would you be able to fit a ton weighted tactical nuclear warhead in one stand off glid bomd, but will it fly !!, you could celotape it onn tie with ropes and then add couple of booster rockects make it lift to the range(being very sarc here sorry )
But there is another question even if you are succesfull in delivering and deploying one or for the matter lets say 20 pluss warhead at one given time assuming the AC's don't get shot down. but how would you ensure that india would not reciprocate,for that you would have to use all your other Resources those are your BM but then those poor Mach 2 jets would be outrunned by mach 4 Incomming BM !! wouldn't they. assumeing you would like to give your opponent very litle time to react !! crude but logical thinking

 

[SABRE]

Only time can tell if China is going to replace Mig 19 & 21 with J-10. We will have to wait & c. But I dont think that China is going to replace MiG 19 & 21 with J-10, JF-17 is still on their list. B4 Pak made deal for JF-17 with Chian, USA was a partner it with China. This definitly proves that China was interested in JF-17 (FC-1), Pak was not on their minds than. It was for them. So now why would they want to back off.


Anyways Talking of Pilots not making it back after dropping off the "Nukes".

American Pilots dropped Nuke on Japan & Return to base (RTB) safely in the WW2. They werent even flying a Jet fighter measured to the speed of todays fighter & their planes couldnt even fly at higher altitude to protect tham selves. Heck they even almost brought back all their Wing men & intercepters back safely. So why is it today that Pilots would be in danger after dropping off Nukes. Todays technology makes it even much safer for pilots than it was in WW2.

 

[adsH]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

saber you didn't read my argument correctly about first strike which has to be complete!! meaning you can't just deploy one on your enemy you have to deploy the whole Package that pak has like all the missiles to be effective or else India would reciprocate!! so when the poor pilots would be returning home the BM from pak would be commin in and you can't tell me BM are slower than AC!!

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

would you be able to fit a ton weighted tactical nuclear warhead in one stand off glid bomd, but will it fly !!, you could celotape it onn tie with ropes and then add couple of booster rockects make it lift to the range(being very sarc here sorry ).....

You'll find that those nations that were able to develop mini nukes did so because there are clear tactical advantages for some situations.

Why do you think that Israel, France, UK, US, Russia developed cruise deployable mini's? It's a lot easier to launch and take out a specific platform.

In the case of a fleet, the Russians knew that a ballistic missile would never be able to strike a CVN due to targeting and movement issues, so they went to supersonic air launched nukes in the hope of being able to swarm a fleet. Israel uses N tipped Popeyes on its Dolphins for a similar reason, if someone invades Israel, then as a Masada solution, they can launch an N tipped Popeye in retribution.

In the same logic set, it's also why the US dabbled with nuke tipped SAM's, a very effective weapon in a given situation.

Ballistics are useful in a limited scenario, they're a "goodnight" option with no failsafe option. As such they are terminal in more than one sense.

 

[adsH]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

were assumeing that the Parties that use such weapons are responsible states like the Russians and the US, i doubt if you attack a pakistani army Brigade with such a weapon Pakistan would do nothing. (Pak is a small state with its capital in easy reach of the INdian forces) Pak would simply openly use nuke to it's max ability, and that would be larger scale Nukes they don't or are not known to poses Smaller yield nukes!! they would be compelled to reciprocate within the confines of there abilities!!, with the Development of such relatively Minor WMD you are opening a theater that only shows a Movie about "dooms day" any one Nuke exchanges at any level would bring all Pakistani and INdian Assets in use, GF i am tell you The Indian subcontinent is a ticking Bomb, they have very little self restraint or have shown very little self restraint when it has come to wars and them selves, Micro nukes are an invitation to dooms day even tho it may destroy a large scale localized target but it would still mean the opponent was nuked which would mean that the Opponent would morally be compelled to return the gesture

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Both China and the US have wargamed a limited nuclear war, which is slightly disconcerting.

On the basis of the above, one would assume that the JF-10 at least would be considered for carrying.

 

[SABRE]

J-10 is going to carry Nuclear Wapons but only few would be upgraded to this feature. i read this few days ago on the net. JF-17 carrying Nuclear wapon is out of question alos from the same website.
I'll tell u the name of the website as soon i get hold of it again. I found it when i was serfing the net

 

[jokeen]

hello everyone!
i'm from china,and i also interested in the development of j-10
i have many pictures about j-10
if anybody likes,tell me e-mail,i'll send to you

 

[SABRE]

Welcome Jokeen our Chinese Friend. We too are big fans of J-10 & looking forward towards u to provide us latest news on J-10. Anyways do u have any thing on JF-17.

Anyways heres a good news. JF-17 finds a market along with K-8. Read :

Bangladesh Air Force is looking to modernise its fleet and is looking at various options, it is reported that both the K-8 and JF-17 are the main contenders in this race.
PAF is awaiting clearance from the US Authorities to transfer its up to 12 T-37s to Bangladesh Air Force.
(March 04)

Link: http://www.pakakhbar.com/military/airforce/main.html

Man we are providing what we make to what broke away from us. But the good news is JF-17 gets the market potential even before it is indcuted in two countries making it. Also the K-8 has started to get some recognition. Specially in UAE, Saudi Arabia, Egypt & now Bangladesh.

I ve also herd that French are also looking forward to the JF-17. Think they want to repalce their old mirrage 3 & 5. Lets c, hope & pray.
I know, dnt say it....France & JF-17? This is what I have herd, there is a possibility that few European countries may go for JF-17. French like solo pilot jets. Some African nations may also explore JF-17 market & most Russian dependent Asian nations currently using MiG 19 & 21 like Viatnam most probably will come for JF-17. North Korea for one I m sure will love to buy them.
India may also like these Jet but would be hasitent to ask for them & Pakistan & China would be hasitent to give it to them.

Pray that JF-17 get a big market. It will become a gold mine for Pakistan & China.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

it will be hopfully. it is a milestone for pakistan and china and i'm sure it will surve use well. i've also heard that Chile are intrested in the JF-17 as well. lets just see what happens shall we. oohh and by the way Welcome Jokeen. hope you keep use updated on what you know about the j-10 and JF-17. ENJOY.

 

[adsH]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

this is got to be a joke france is interested in a fighter like this they may be interested in providing electronics for it. and become a partner in the program. but i doubt they want to induct these. ok North K is impossible the US would not allow such a deal!! and what would they pay Pak with (low quality Scuds). Bangladesh is a reality. and saudi are very interested. Eygypt may be coerced. Turkey has no need for these, Chile is a possible country. BUt the main thing which is good and very attractive is that Pak can offer these jets for 15 mill each i think that with French and western avionics included its amazing, A country that could not produce washing powder a decade ago can now produce high quality jets!! (no offense to my Pakistani Freinds).