By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.
Discussion in 'Navy & Maritime' started by JFoulke, Mar 2, 2018.
Okay perfect, sorry
Hi, there has been some substantial news about the PPA program of the Italian Navy.
All these info are still not 100% confirmed but have been leaked by trustful insiders or by laws that still needs to be approved by the Parliament.
Basically the Italian Navy wants to build a new class of Destroyers for a total of 2 ships that would be 13.000 tons and 170 meters long with AAW, ABMD, ASW capabilities, but obviously this would cause to make some cuts elsewhere and they would make a cut to th requested PPA, instead of building 16 of them they would build 8/10 PPA and request smaller, cheaper 6/8 light Fregates, obviously these Frégates packs quite less a punch.
All these news are also reported inside this video made by a friend of mine, if you want to take a look it would be appreciated.
Some vague informations about the project for the substitute to the 3 San Marco class LHD (8.000 tons)
The three new ships should be between 16.000 and 20.000 tons (similar size to the currently in service Giuseppe Garibaldi)
Use a really similar engine to the new PPA
Top speed of 25 nm.
4 landing spots for helicopters.
Enough place in the foldable hangar for 4 new landing crafts.
Capable of self defence using two 72/64 CIWS and 1 VLS for 16 ASTER 15/30 missiles.
The current landing force for the Italian Navy is 14.150 tons Giuseppe Garibaldi + 8.000 x 3 San Marco class = 38.150 tons
If the informations are correct by 2030 the Italian Navy should have 33.000 tons Trieste/Thaon de Revel class (recently renamed and recently enlarged of 3.000 tons) + 16.000/20.000 x 3 new LHD class = 81.000/93.000 tons
The amphibious tonnage will be almost 3 times as large
The MMI is still deciding if the command decks would be forward like the Mistral Class or central/back like the Giuseppe Garibaldi.
Looks like is creating a defence force for such assets because all of the new PPA has a top speed of 25 nm, the new Trieste/Thaon de Revel has a top speed of 25 no and the future LHD also.
Will be interesting to see the final details of this future class of ship.
At 16 to 20 k tonnes they should have both a decent sized flight deck and aircraft/ vehicle transport capacity .
I wonder if their flight deck layout and lift arrangement is similar to that of the Giuseppe Garibaldi.
Italy having five 16000 t and above sized ( aviation ) ships will make them quite a maritime player in the Mediterranean.
Will watch with interest.
These are still leaks and we still don’t have a clear picture about these ships, the insider stated that should be really similar to a Garibaldi but a little bit larger.
The only ships capable of launching fixed wing aircraft will be the Cavour and the new Trieste/TdR, these new LHDs will use only helicopters, the landing spots should be big enough to land on each of them a MV-22, any of these ships will be able to be used with the CH-47.
Yeah, 5 flat top ships, 8/10 new PPA (2 already in construction, 10 financed), 10 new FREMM (7 in service, 3 in construction), 2 new U212 (already financed), a new class of 2 Destroyers, 6/8 new light Fregates and a new LSS
If all of this become reality in the 2030 will be quite a big force
My friend has come out with a video reassuming all of this infos and adding a primary scheme of how the ship should turn out to be, it looks quite neat to me, unfortunately i’ve Not the permission to post the drawing elsewhere because it wasn’t created by him.
If you want to see it take a look here [url[url/]
I’ve made a request to a friend of mine to make a comparison between the Italian Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet because it’s the closest and the finest equipped (for now) threat that could arose from the Mediterranean Sea.
Mod edit: Content deleted, versus discussions between nations and/or their gear is prohibited, as is linking to content which does the same. This is due to the unfortunate experiences of people who cannot seem to discuss such topics with logic, but rather argue on the basis of emotion and/or national fervor.
Today we will talk about the newly launched Italian Logistic Support Ship Vulcano.
We will also talk about the prospect of the French navy to buy 4 of such ships.
The italian unit is 193 meters long and 24 meters wide, the total tonnage is 27.200.
The LSS Vulcano has been launched 22nd of June and it’s expected to be commissioned in August 2019.
The ship cost 346 Million euro (2015) and 2 more of this class has been requested by the Italian Navy.
The ship has a top speed with Diesel engine of 20knots or 10 with electric engine.The maximum range is 7.000 nmi or 30 Days at sea.
The ship’s sensors are the Leonardo RAN21S surface radar, the Leonardo IFF, GEM dual band radar, 1 helicopter landing radar, 2 Leonardo IRST systems and obstacle avoidance radar, FFBNW torpedo detection sonar.
As electronic warfare and decoys the ship uses the Leonardo CESM and RESM systems.
The ship it’s armed with 2 OTO Melara KBA 25/80 AA guns, 1 OTO Melara 76/62 multirole gun, 2 FFBNW ODLS and 1 Sitep Long Range Acoustic System.
For refueling the ship uses 4 RAS Hepburn Systems, 1 Astern System, 2 30tons stabilized cranes and 2 helicopters AW101. The hangar is capable of housing both helicopters and the landing pad is capable of withstanding a CH53 or a MV22.
Since a few weeks there has been some rumors that the French navy would build some Italian LSS derivatives to fit French needs. The MN would be interested in producing 4 of these ships and it’s said that 98% of the ship will be the same of the Italian counterpart.
These ships would be build from STX in France, there is the need to remember that the Italian Fincantieri has recently bought 50% of STX and it’s now the majority shareholder.
All info taken by the RID topic and the french news La Tribune
you can find all the information on video format at the DailyBattlefields channel
Here some info about the new UNPAV unit for the Italian Navy.
UNPAV stands for Multirole Really High Speed Naval Unit (Unità Navale Polifunzionale ad Altissima Velocità) and the class it’s named Angelo Cabrini.
Angelo Cabrini was an Admiral and part of the Incursori Commando team that sunk the York ship in 1941.
This class will be used as support for the Special Units both during training and during operations. It will be also used to control marittime traffic.
The ship has been built with composite material, it is 44 meters long and 8.4 meters wide with a top speed of over 30 knots.
The ship has a total displacement of 190 tons and it’s able to carry 1 RHIB.
The command bridge is ballistically protected and has a view of 360°.
The ship has been launched the 26th of may and it will be commissioned in April 2019.
The ship costed 40 million euro.
(All info are taken from RID July)
The new Italian missiles systems.
The first missile we will take a look at is the CAMM-ER, this new missile is the future substitute of the airspace defence system Aspide
This system is the evolution of the CAMM and it features almost double the range with approximately 40 Km.
It will use the same RF (Radio Frequency) seeker but a completely new engine.
The missile will be launched for the first time in 2019.
The Marte MK2 it’s the newest system in the light anti-ship medium range missile category that has been devided in 2 different versions.
The MK2S entered service in 2006 as an helicopters launched missile from the AW101 and in 2012 from the NH90.
The MK2N is the version utilized from land based battery and also by naval assets.
The Marte MK2 is a fire and forget missile, with a top speed of Mach 0.8 and a range of 30km.
The missile is capable of performing evasive maneuvers and can be launched in salvos in order to saturate enemy defenses.
The flight profile is Sea skimming and has elevated ECCM (Electronic Counter Counter Measures) capabilities.
For the MK2S version has been suggested an integration on the light attack version of the M-346 aircraft.
A new version of the heavy anti-ship missile Teseo is in working and will be called MK2/E.
The new missile will offer almost double the range thanks to a new engine, bringing the max to 360km.
Thanks to a new RF seeker, the system will be more precise against sea threats and a different seeker will be installed to give the capabilities of attacking ground targets.
It will be possible to decide what effect the missile will have on the target modifying both the fragmentation and the detonation, this will be useful to avoid collateral damage against ground enemies.
All I've seen about CAMM-ER is about it replacing Aspide in the Spada land-based SAM system. Is it being considered by the MM for naval use?
Yup, they are considering to use it on the Light version of the PPA instead of the Aster 15/30 because they think that the Aster Missiles might be a bit too much on the light version of the ship
That makes sense. Missiles & VLS both lighter & cheaper than Aster.
It looks like Italy may not be buying any more F-35 after the 13 it already has on order. I am not sure where this leaves their navy as only a few of these will be F-35Bs.
Italy May Stop F-35 Orders at 13 Aircraft
I'd treat that particular report with some caution because that particular news organisation is part of the anything but the F-35 brigade. However I have read reports that one of the parties in the new Italian govt aren't that keen on the aircraft.
That might last until people start running the numbers on the cost of rounding out the Italian Air Force numbers with Typhoons. The price per aircraft being about the same, or perhaps even slightly less for the F-35 than the Typhoon now that the F-35 production is starting to ramp up.
Time will tell though.
The challenge of landing and taking off with a Typhoon from the Cavour may put some reality back into the decision of reducing the number of F35B's.
I would think Italy’s manufacturing revenue from the F-35 program will exceed that of any future Typhoon revenue. That fact along with an equal price and carrier capability makes the decision a no brainer IMO. Then again, we are talking about pollies.
At least some of the PPAs are meant to carry the 21inch Black Shark Advance (BSA) torpedoe, which as far as i am aware is a first for a modern western major surface combatant. I assume it is primarily intended for ASW. If so, it appears to significantly close, if not nullify the range advantage sub launched torps have over surface ship launched ones, which have generally been limited to short range 12.75 inch weapons for many years. is this the way forward, or just an aberation?
Some news of the Italian PPX program.
The PPX is a program started to create a new class of light fregates to field together with the PPA and FREMM Class ships.
The class will also be proposed on the market for export as a Fregate.
The total displacement should be of 3,500 tons, it will be a little bit larger in size than the Doha Class Corvettes (Qatar) that is already being built by Fincantieri.
Part of this class should be in a ASW configuration, the Italian Navy has chosen this type of arrangement in response to the rising number of active submarines around the world.
At the same time all of the ships will be armed with the anti air system MBDA CAMM ER in order to give to the ship also good airspace defence capabilities.
There is still no sure date for the start of the program, but it is plausible that it will start between the years 2020 and 2021.
(All of the news are taken from RID August 2018)
If you want to take a look also at the video, here there is the link