Indonesian Aero News

Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
swerve said:
there's a potential three way deal there, ending up with Garuda getting three new A330-900 & TNI-AU the three used A330-200, overhauled & converted to MRTT by Airbus.
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From what I gather and heard the rumours, this is what Airbus try to offer. New A330-900 Neo for Garuda while Airbus Military take over A300-200 of Garuda to convert to MRTT. The calculation of pricing and financing package will determine the winner. So far the talk of MRTT is circle around A400M. All three are mostly in 15+ years old. Thus converting to MRTT should at least in theory give another 2 decades more live. Looking on how long USAF maintain their KC-135, it could be longer.

Garuda have 5 + 9 order for A330-900, and so far they seems want also to maintain A330-300. Thus their A330-200 from what I heard from market analyst in here, is not part of Fleet they want to maintain. Logically should be sold to Government as part of financial packages to help Garuda which still in financial recoveries. Well if they follow logic anyway.
 
A

Arji

Active Member
From what I know from work, Garuda's A330-200s is a leased aircraft and they're in the process of returning it to the lessor. So I'm not sure how they can be transferred to TNI-AU.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
I saw the list of Garuda owned plane consist of A330-200 and A330-300 from the batch procured in 2010-2014 (during Emirsyah Satar management). Noted there is also list that shown the ones that owned by Garuda is all A330-300.

If those A330-200 is part of leased fleet (again this is if as there are conflicting report on this), it is still can be bought by Government if they want to take it for MRTT convertion. Either way, Government need to buy it first, either to Garuda (if owned) or Lessor (if leased). Most A330 MRTT are coming from convert process of used ex Airlines A330-200, and taking ex Garuda fleet means the planes already have maintenance record in Indonesia.

Rumours now talk about Airbus MRTT lobby got challenge from lobby of used IL-78. As usual this rumours get over blow circulation from Frenchie Salesman and his followers. There's no surprises in here as TNI-AU and MinDef do looking for A-330MRTT, KC-76 or 767MRTT convertion and IL-78 (used or new) as part of options calculations.
 
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koxinga

Well-Known Member
India has chosen to replace their IL-78s with KC-767s. But since this option comes from IAI Bedek, it will not be an option for Indonesia. Boeing is focusing on KC-46 which will be far more expensive

A330 MRTT seems the only politically acceptable and affordable choice.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
koxinga said:
A330 MRTT seems the only politically acceptable and affordable choice.
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A330 MRTT will be the most logical choice, but most affordable will be IL-78. This is what I gather the massage that both side marketing lobby try to negotiate with MinDef. Politically both choices now have their own backers.
 
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koxinga

Well-Known Member
Affordable from an initial acquisition cost, sure but does TNI-AU look into total lifecycle cost as well as availability figures?

The Indians suffered low availability due to inability of Russia to support and this also came with higher operating cost (low MTBF).

A civilian platform like the Airbus can leverage on existing in country facilities for MRO, lowering cost, while there is nothing for the IL.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
koxinga said:
Affordable from an initial acquisition cost, sure but does TNI-AU look into total lifecycle cost as well as availability figures?
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Well that's why I said, the A330 MRTT is the most logical choices. On other hand this is sales lobby with each have their own political backing. The TNI-AU studies on MRTT few years back that already shown to media put First place to KC-46, Second place to A330 MRTT and third place to IL-78.

Like you say, KC-46 is just too expensive, and converted 767 is not going to be provided by Boeing while Badek choice is no-no for Indonesia. So it is left to A330 MRTT and IL-78, and base on their (TNI-AU) own study should be A330 MRTT as most logical choice left. Still this is Indonesia, and 'politics' lobby do play in the end as balance tip. Will see whose lobby that tip the scale in the end. Airbus afterall do have long experience playing on Indonesia market. Still nothing devinite untill first DP being made.
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Ananda said:
... Most A330 MRTT are coming from convert process of used ex Airlines A330-200, ..
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IIRC the A330 neo based MRTT (A330 MRTT+) isn't yet fully developed, & A330-200 production has ended, so anyone wanting early delivery of A330 MRTT recently has had to buy converted secondhand A330-200. If anyone knows better please say. I'm not completely sure of that.

Thailand ordered an A330 MRTT+ last year, & delivery is expected in 2029, according to Airbus. Airbus has said the difference is small enough that it doesn't need a prototype: the risk is low enough that the first customer aircraft can be the prototype.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
swerve said:
IIRC the A330 neo based MRTT (A330 MRTT+) isn't yet fully developed, & A330-200 production has ended, so anyone wanting early delivery of A330 MRTT recently has had to buy converted secondhand A330-200. If anyone knows better please say. I'm not completely sure of that.
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You are right I believe, Airbus only offer A330 MRTT + as their newly build line up Airbus Tawarkan Pesawat A330 MRTT ke Indonesia, Ini Alasannya - Indonesiadefense.com | Informasi Berita Terkini dan Terbaru Hari Ini Hankam Dan TNI % and yes, Thailand will be the launch customer for this A330 neo based MRTT.

However they are still open for converted A330-200 MRTT order. Airbus want to have more A330 MRTT + as A330-800 not selling well. Previously (from Finance Guys rumours in here), they offer to convert Garuda A330-800 order to Indonesia MinDef as MRTT+ as Garuda themselves drop the order and change it for more A300-900.

Seems now they are back to converted A330-200 offer, as rumours say they need to fend off IL-78 sales lobby.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Let's see if other PT. ESS training regiment (PC-21 and M346 FA) going to be exercise or not. Both of them basically going to take over KAI products options. Will see whose sales lobby that win in the end. Getting both of them means no KT-1B assembly line offer and no FA-50. Well as basic trainer, KT-1B already 22 years in operation anyway.

20260331_064022.jpg

Get this from enthusiats X, but if this happen means:
  1. Changing overall traning regime,
  2. PC-24 multipurpose usage is also open for more conversion as specialise plane.
www.ainonline.com

Indonesian Defense Ministry Orders 12 Pilatus PC-24s | AIN

Firm jet contract supported by LOI for 24 PC-21 trainers
www.ainonline.com www.ainonline.com

FB_IMG_1774918337779.jpg

In here it is also talk the contract for PC-21 is imminent. PC-24 many indonesian enthusiats only think as VIP transport purpose. Still it is multipurpose jet transport that can do unpaved strips. In that sense, I'm thinking Papua for example, where they can be use as medevac and have longer range then turboprop.
 
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Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
A

Arji

Active Member
You gotta love politics. A bilateral cooperation with suspicion of espionage, detained engineers, missing payment due to lack of political will and/or incompetence, that basically had to go on ice for years and close to being broken entirely is being hailed as "Model Defense Cooperation".

It's almost magical in a way...
 
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