Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Amazing!....Bakamla's ships are now equipped with real machine guns....and even a pistol
They're showing their 'strategic' weapons as now they got permission to be armed up to 12.7mm machine gun. Some say they'll got more strategic weapons up to 30mm Canon. Will be game changer that going tip the balance regionally ;)
 

PTamb

New Member
They're showing their 'strategic' weapons as now they got permission to be armed up to 12.7mm machine gun. Some say they'll got more strategic weapons up to 30mm Canon. Will be game changer that going tip the balance regionally ;)
this is confirmed not an hearsay. just had a chat with a colleague at Bakamla. But their next year budget needs ro be approved yet for at least 3 times more than what they are able to spend on this year’s purchase.

I also heard Bappenas has agreed to it but kinda being dictated on what to spend. In a good way.

btw, can anyone tell what kind of rifle they have?
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
this is confirmed not an hearsay. just had a chat with a colleague at Bakamla. But their next year budget needs ro be approved yet for at least 3 times more than what they are able to spend on this year’s purchase.

I also heard Bappenas has agreed to it but kinda being dictated on what to spend. In a good way.

btw, can anyone tell what kind of rifle they have?
Im quite sure that the assault rifle is an HK416 and the sniper rifle a HK417 20 inch 'Sniper' ("full size" rifle with 508 mm (20 in) accurized barrel).
I can not recognize the pistol, and ive to search about the 12,7 mm machinegun.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

The 12.7mm is Pindad SM5, as the article above shown.

Thank you for sharing.
Thats why I've never seen it on board any other ship, BAKAMLA is the launch costumer of the Pindad SM5.


It is unclear if the sea and weapon trials are already passed and finished, but at least there is progress.


| "According to PT Pindad, the fire-support craft, which has an overall beam of 6.1 m and a draught of 1 m, can accommodate up to 60 passengers and five crew members, has a top speed of 40 kt and a maximum range of about 600 n miles at 9 kt." |

It remarkable that they still talk about 65 persons on this boat of 18 × 6 meters, while on PT Lundin 's website they are talking about 20 passengers.

Some bonus videos.
 
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Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Thank you for sharing.
Thats why I've never seen it on board any other ship, BAKAMLA is the launch costumer of the Pindad SM5.


It is unclear if the sea and weapon trials are already passed and finished, but at least there is progress.


| "According to PT Pindad, the fire-support craft, which has an overall beam of 6.1 m and a draught of 1 m, can accommodate up to 60 passengers and five crew members, has a top speed of 40 kt and a maximum range of about 600 n miles at 9 kt." |

It remarkable that they still talk about 65 persons on this boat of 18 × 6 meters, while on PT Lundin 's website theybare talking about 20 passengers.
Yea I don’t think i would want to be on that Boat with 64 other people, thank you very much. Even 25 looks a stretch.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Frankly speaking I'm bit smacking my own face when I read 60+ people on that boat. How some officials in Indonesia like to cram peoples in one design. When I went to last Indodefence in 2018, I got opportunity to hear John Lundin give explenation to the pers. From what I gather the design aim for brown water-riverine assault boat with a squad of armed soldier at most.

A squad mostly consist of 14-16 guys at most. Perhaps some officials got an idea, if we can put a squad on there, why not try to squezze a platoon.
 

PTamb

New Member
Im quite sure that the assault rifle is an HK416 and the sniper rifle a HK417 20 inch 'Sniper' ("full size" rifle with 508 mm (20 in) accurized barrel).
I can not recognize the pistol, and ive to search about the 12,7 mm machinegun.
If it’s really true HK rifles, then Koopssus (a Tri-service Special Operations Command of the TNI) and Kopassus (TNI AD’s special forces and direct action unit) would envy their little brother so much. Those rifle’s arent just expensive, but hard to bring in due to some incident back in 2017 I believe.

but congrats to Bakamla on getting those bad boys.

Edit: Added in brackets to explain what is Koopssus and what is Kopassus.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
FB_IMG_1622439889761.jpg

From Kris FB page (they also give credit to other Indonesian sites AFNPICT). Installation of Russian 57mm AU-220M for the first and second KCR 60 Missile Boats. This's to replace temporary gun of old 40mm Bofors gun.

However seems the rest four newer KCR will be using 57mm Bofors/BAE System, as the article from Jane's mentioned sometimes ago.


This according to the article will be place to 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th boats. This has been in talk in Indonesian online sites for sometime ago. I suspect why different guns due to the 1st and 2nd Boats using Chinese systems, while the rest four using Terma system. For that perhaps integration of Russian system to Chinese ones can be done easier, while Terma systems easier to be intergrate with BAE System guns.


The plan for KCR60 supposedly for 18 boats. However rumours circulate that the rest will be switch to enlarge design that PAL call as OPV80 and OPV90 (PAL also shown design of OPV60 that basically similar to KCR60). It's also being talked that if the Frigates Projects got green lights to underway, those OPV Projects will be sub contracted to other Indonesian yards. Will see how it's progressing.
 
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Arji

Member
Installation of Russian 57mm AU-220M for the first and second KCR 60 Missile Boats. This's to replace temporary gun of old 40mm Bofors gun.
I guess it's not that bad, since I assume it's the same caliber as our legendary S-60, god bless that thing.

I don't know why PAL is doing both Eastern and Western system, instead of just sticking to one. I guess the navy really do want to scrape every weapon in their inventory, which in this case is the Chinese missile, even at the risk of having a logistical strain due to 2 different system. So is there plans for buying more Chinese missile? or will the boat undergo refurbishment and change to TERMA once the Chinese missile is no longer in the navy's inventory?
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I guess it's not that bad, since I assume it's the same caliber as our legendary S-60, god bless that thing.

I don't know why PAL is doing both Eastern and Western system, instead of just sticking to one. I guess the navy really do want to scrape every weapon in their inventory, which in this case is the Chinese missile, even at the risk of having a logistical strain due to 2 different system. So is there plans for buying more Chinese missile? or will the boat undergo refurbishment and change to TERMA once the Chinese missile is no longer in the navy's inventory?
Looking to what Ananda already explained, the Terma CMS is ordered for the 3rd until 6th vessel, these boats wil also be equipped with the Bofors 57 mm Mk.3.

The first and second vessel are equipped with chinese CMS and some recycled old (probably manually operated) Bofors 40 mm guns.

So yes, it is a huge step forwards that the 1st and 2nd boat will got new Russian 57 mm guns, but for me it is unclear if the CMS will stay completely the same or if some Russian components like a radar-guided or EO-tracking system will be added.

Edit:
Looking to various sources, the AU-220M uses its own EO-system, making integration into small vessel easier and more cost effective.



 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
don't know why PAL is doing both Eastern and Western system, instead of just sticking to one.
Question is: Is it do to 'diversification' or due to 'multiple projects' mentality ? Same thing why we have F-16 and why we have Flankers. Same thing why Indonesian defense procurement planning have hodge pot procurement practices, instead standardize on certain system.

Like I said so many times, standardizing works whether you are talking on commercial fleet or military fleet. However standardizing means you are putting all your procurement Projects with certain suppliers. While diversification means you put your eggs on several basket.

Positive sided standardize, you can optimising your logistics foot prints, simplified your training, and more efficient readiness of your fleet. That's why most profitable airlines actually only have one or two types of Airliners. Also you can push better deals from your suppliers.

So why Indonesian MinDef wants on 'diversification' ? The standard 'mantra' is for less strategic dependency on one suppliers. However, diversification means also more projects. So you can pick whatever you like to think on, why really the purpose for 'diversification'.


Just another example how current procurement 'budget' being talked on so many local media. Like I have said before, Defense is Big Business. Any move to centralising the procurement, can means smaller chances for multiple projects. No wonder many 'insiders' got 'disturbed'.

Sorry bit off sidelines, but actually it's related to your question why TNI difficult to standardizing.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
View attachment 48245

From Kris FB page (they also give credit to other Indonesian sites AFNPICT). Installation of Russian 57mm AU-220M for the first and second KCR 60 Missile Boats. This's to replace temporary gun of old 40mm Bofors gun.

However seems the rest four newer KCR will be using 57mm Bofors/BAE System, as the article from Jane's mentioned sometimes ago.


This according to the article will be place to 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th boats. This has been in talk in Indonesian online sites for sometime ago. I suspect why different guns due to the 1st and 2nd Boats using Chinese systems, while the rest four using Terma system. For that perhaps integration of Russian system to Chinese ones can be done easier, while Terma systems easier to be intergrate with BAE System guns.


The plan for KCR60 supposedly for 18 boats. However rumours circulate that the rest will be switch to enlarge design that PAL call as OPV80 and OPV90 (PAL also shown design of OPV60 that basically similar to KCR60). It's also being talked that if the Frigates Projects got green lights to underway, those OPV Projects will be sub contracted to other Indonesian yards. Will see how it's progressing.
As far as i know, there were plans to order the A-220 / AU-220M as far as 2018 (or maybe even earlier). But i dont know exactly when the two AU-220M guns were ordered. CAATSA was signed into law on 2 August 2017, so i wonder if there were any problems with the acquisition.

Photo: the same KCR-60M boat with the old Bofors 40 mm gun.
 

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Ananda

The Bunker Group

Perhaps the salvage effort deemed too costly or too complex with that depth. Perhaps the sonar findings plus the video condition on the sea bottom shown the conditions are too difficult with the equipment available. Or perhaps after they done the audit on the condition of the Submarine, they already found plausible explanation on the accident.

This's just Reuters article, no official position on this yet. The salvage effort actually for two reasons, trying to salvage the wreakage for technical explanation and retrieve the bodies. So, if they do officially cancelled this, then I suspect they already found the technical difficulty on the salvage operation is still unsolvable with existing resources.

Add:
Well, TNI-AL already officially stop the salvage operation with PLAN assistance. It's not known if they will not attempt another salvage operation or this is it.

 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
View attachment 48245

From Kris FB page (they also give credit to other Indonesian sites AFNPICT). Installation of Russian 57mm AU-220M for the first and second KCR 60 Missile Boats. This's to replace temporary gun of old 40mm Bofors gun.

However seems the rest four newer KCR will be using 57mm Bofors/BAE System, as the article from Jane's mentioned sometimes ago.


This according to the article will be place to 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th boats. This has been in talk in Indonesian online sites for sometime ago. I suspect why different guns due to the 1st and 2nd Boats using Chinese systems, while the rest four using Terma system. For that perhaps integration of Russian system to Chinese ones can be done easier, while Terma systems easier to be intergrate with BAE System guns.


The plan for KCR60 supposedly for 18 boats. However rumours circulate that the rest will be switch to enlarge design that PAL call as OPV80 and OPV90 (PAL also shown design of OPV60 that basically similar to KCR60). It's also being talked that if the Frigates Projects got green lights to underway, those OPV Projects will be sub contracted to other Indonesian yards. Will see how it's progressing.
Janes is often quite late with its news articles, but here they give a little bit more details.

I just wonder why the AU-220M guns will be only installed in the 2nd (629) and 3rd (630) vessel of the class, and not the first one (628).
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
A nice rearview on the X18 Antasena.


There are already several PC-40 patrol boats in active service with the Indonesian Navy, built by PT Palindo Marine and PT Karimun Anugerah Sejati.
But last month, 25 Mei 2021, a hydrographic research ship based on this PC-40 design was launched at the yard of
PT Karimun Anugerah Sejati: KRI Pulox 935.

According to Dispenlantamaliv KRI Polux 935 has a length of 45,50 meter, displacement of 220 ton and carries 35 crewmembers. The twin MTU diesels of 2480 hp each can give the KRI Polux 935 a maximum speed of 24 kts, a cruise speed of 15 kts and an endurance of 6 days. It is armed with a 30 mm main gun and 12,7 mm machine guns.

It is still unclear which kind of hydrographic equipment will be installed in the first Indonesian made Hydro-and Oceanic research ship.
KRI Polux 935 will operate under Pusat Hidro-Oseanografi TNI Angkatan Laut (Pushidrosal).

 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Two years ago there was an experiment with radar absorbing paint on a small patrol boat.

The radar absorbing paint was developed by BATAN and KAL Sadarin II-3-02 was used for this experiment. It seems to be one of the 16 m long Carpentaria-class patrol boats donated by Australia in 1976.

Any more information about the results of this experiment?

 

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