Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
True, Comandanti is slightly smaller and less powerful engine setup in the original design. However the design that Fincantieri-PAL put seems being modified.

However it's not that the reason I say that I regret Damen being choose rather than Fincantieri-PAL design. It's more to Fincantieri already agree the design will also can be used by PAL. Thus it's a join design effort. In sense PAL can use and modified it later on, just like they are doing with LPD that originated from Daesun and the patrol boats with Lurssen design. Something that I heard is not that clear cut with the Damen.
Yes, that has to be quite disappointing for PAL, and i think that you are right that this is the main reason PAL is looking for another partner, Odense or MHI, to get more ToT and the right for full IP, like the LPD or CN235 project.

I also wonder about Schelde's OMEGA-offer, if they want to do it the same way as with the SIGMAs, they will not make a chance.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
You dont gonna believe what our Oracle on Twitter is posting today....
" In order to acquire AH-1Z attack helo for navy, Indonesia look for foreign loan. It will only procure a few AH-1Z helo. Whether Indonesia able to buy this Bell made helo will depend on Biden administration and Capitol Hill. To find lender is easier than to get export license."

Or he has too much fantasy, or he is on drugs, or he has indeed supernatural predicting powers.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I'm offended! Some of my family used to work in the Odense shipyards! How dare you get the name wrong!

Mind you, that was 200 years ago. ;)
Actually really sad that Odense Staalskibsværft got bankrupt and ceased operations in 2012.
I think it was also a painful moment when the mothercompany Maersk decided to order ships abroad.

The Danish government should have save/nationalize this company, i mean its a strategic company. Was Odense Staalskibsværft the last/only shipyard of Denmark which could construct and design warships?
 

swerve

Super Moderator
The builder of the Knud_Rasmussen-class_patrol_vessel, Karstensens Skibsværft, is still in business. They now build hulls in Poland, though (they bought a Polish builder).

OMT is still in business as a design consultancy of course, but doesn't have any building facilities.

Part of the late 20th century Odense shipyard* at Munkebo (some way outside the city, closer to open sea) now houses Fayard A/S, but that concentrates on ship repairs. It has facilities which could be used for building, though, including three big docks (280x44 metres. 303x45, & 315 or 415 - it can be partitioned - x 90) & a destroyer-sized one, 145x30).

*My ancestors worked up Odense Fjord, at Skibhusene - "the ship houses" - which was then just outside the city, between the city & the sea.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I'm offended! Some of my family used to work in the Odense shipyards! How dare you get the name wrong!

Mind you, that was 200 years ago. ;)
I was just thinking, how was it possible that your family worked at Odense Staalskibsværft 200 years ago, when the company was founded in 1917?
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

How snippy this guy has become..or desperate on pushing Euro interest (that clearly he's represents). Doesn't he knows MHI in various media and video already put that 30FFM offer to export market with abilities to be integrated with different systems and weapons modules depend on the Customer requirements ?

Perhaps his FREEM offer is the fantasy one..oh how desperate he becomes. It just become hilarious to see :D
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

How snippy this guy has become..or desperate on pushing Euro interest (that clearly he's represents). Doesn't he knows MHI in various media and video already put that 30FFM offer to export market with abilities to be integrated with different systems and weapons modules depend on the Customer requirements ?

Perhaps his FREEM offer is the fantasy one..oh how desperate he becomes. It just become hilarious to see :D
Yesterday he started suddenly to talk about Fincantieri, and their new fregat design: "FREEM". He often tells us his revelations which are nowhere else to be found.

I am sure you check his tweets daily to find posts like this one above.
You are such a loyal follower.....
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
am sure you check his tweets daily to find posts like this one above.
You are such a loyal follower...
;) haven't check his tweet for a week more. Honestly I just check some local forums, and found his tweet. Thus I check again what he's babbling on for past week. Just found it hilarious and shown his desperation as Defense Contractor Rep. Still even with his tweet shown his true colours more and more, he's still got loyal followers.

However I got his desperation tough. Seems he has work out quite some time building effort as part of Euro Contractor Rep, then suddenly out of nowhere the Japanese come bulldoze in. Not saying that MHI will win, but clearly frustrated for guys like him.
 
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ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
;) haven't check his tweet for a week more. Honestly I just check some local forums, and found his tweet. Thus I check again what he's babbling on for past week. Just found it hilarious and shown his desperation as Defense Contractor Rep. Still even with his tweet shown his true colours more and more, he's still got loyal followers.

However I got his desperation tough. Seems he has work out quite some time building effort as part of Euro Contractor Rep, then suddenly out of nowhere the Japanese come bulldoze in. Not saying that MHI will win, but clearly frustrated for guys like him.
Makes you wonder if he thinks that he's being paid by the tweet :D
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
It could be true. Perhaps how big his online campaign is his Performance Indicators. After all it's normal right know for any projects to have dedicated people for online campaign.

Chinese model for ten cents army already being used every where..;)
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
He,he..so the rate now already 50 cents. Well I should more catch up on this. Basically the same, I used to hear the term 10 cents when the rate is just 10 cents per hit comments.

Or perhaps it's term used by Westerners as 10 cents Dollars is only slightly higher than 50 cents Chinese Yuan.
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
I was just thinking, how was it possible that your family worked at Odense Staalskibsværft 200 years ago, when the company was founded in 1917?
I said they worked in the Odense shipyards, which existed long before the company Odense Staalskibsværft was founded. They built wooden ships. I recall one ancestor & one of his sons* both being listed in records as ships carpenters, carpenters & shipwrights at different times. Staalskibsværft means "Steel ships shipyard". ;)

*I'm descended from an older son, a sailor, who may have died at sea. There's no record of a burial for him locally, but his wife re-married to the shipwright son, three years younger (four years younger than her) by special licence - "King's letter", & in the marriage record (21 Jan 1837) it says "Anna Hedvig Holm Enche efter afdøde Sømand Jakob Rasmussen" - "widow of the dead seaman Jakob Rasmussen". The need for the licence isn't explained. It could have been because she was marrying her first husband's brother, or because there was no body of her first husband.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I said they worked in the Odense shipyards, which existed long before the company Odense Staalskibsværft was founded. They built wooden ships. I recall one ancestor & one of his sons* both being listed in records as ships carpenters, carpenters & shipwrights at different times. Staalskibsværft means "Steel ships shipyard". ;)

*I'm descended from an older son, a sailor, who may have died at sea. There's no record of a burial for him locally, but his wife re-married to the shipwright son, three years younger (four years younger than her) by special licence - "King's letter", & in the marriage record (21 Jan 1837) it says "Anna Hedvig Holm Enche efter afdøde Sømand Jakob Rasmussen" - "widow of the dead seaman Jakob Rasmussen". The need for the licence isn't explained. It could have been because she was marrying her first husband's brother, or because there was no body of her first husband.
Sorry for the misunderstanding and thank you for the explanation.



How snippy this guy has become..or desperate on pushing Euro interest (that clearly he's represents). Doesn't he knows MHI in various media and video already put that 30FFM offer to export market with abilities to be integrated with different systems and weapons modules depend on the Customer requirements ?

Perhaps his FREEM offer is the fantasy one..oh how desperate he becomes. It just become hilarious to see :D
Yesterday he said "Japan made warships is less competitive for Indonesian market."
Around 6:00 WIB this morning he posted this:
"A Germany defense firm expected will have another meeting with Indonesian Ministry of Defense to discuss its offer soon. The firm wants to meet Indonesian market requirement. The offer is competitive in terms of quality and price. It has stiff competition against another OEM."

As you said he can be paid for his active lobbying/influencing/propaganda posts, or he can have a personal hatred against the Japanese. Who knows, maybe he was once rejected by a Japanese girl, or he started to hate the Japanese after watching some wrong sick anime like Boku no Pico... :-D

But as always he never give details or references. It is totally unclear what he is talking about. Maybe its to safeguard his mysterious image as the Oracle on Twitter.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

How snippy this guy has become..or desperate on pushing Euro interest (that clearly he's represents). Doesn't he knows MHI in various media and video already put that 30FFM offer to export market with abilities to be integrated with different systems and weapons modules depend on the Customer requirements ?

Perhaps his FREEM offer is the fantasy one..oh how desperate he becomes. It just become hilarious to see :D
Rejoice and behold what your idol has shared to us!
If its true that the Type209/1400 Nagapasa class will be upgraded, then i think he means the installation of the torpedo decoy system from Aselsan.
KRI Nagapasa is commissioned in 2017, and if the first overhaul is done 7 years later combined with the installation of the Turkish decoy system, then i dont see a problem with it.

But hey, as you already said, your idol is showing more and more his true colours. It seems he not only dislike Japanese but also the Koreans...well, maybe he is just a racist who hate Asians and other brown people.... :-D
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
But hey, as you already said, your idol is showing more and more his true colours. It seems he not only dislike Japanese but also the Koreans...well, maybe he is just a racist who hate Asians and other brown people
He's brown people himself :D. It's part of his subtle campaign to trash all non Euro origin Defense assets. After all he's defending his bread and butter..his payroll..;)

You're right, with MinDef already procured Aselsan decoys system, off course those DSME 1400 will go back to the Yard and being upgraded. Also I heard rumours that due to cost cutting measure during their procurement contract, some equipment will be upgraded to latest tech standard. Perhaps this's also why the second batch DMSE 1400 contract value offer bit higher then the first batch.

Anyway he's trying to build case to the "public" why there's justification to change Submarine partner to Euro's one like Naval Group or perhaps TKMS.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
A certain person on Twitter shared this just 30 minutes ago...
"While there was expectation for new Indonesian corvette training ship to replace the decommissioned one, budget reality shows that no allocation for such a ship. Government focus on to buy more frigates equipped with full weapon systems for navy. All will finance by foreign loan."
1. KRI Hajar Dewantara 364 was never a training corvette, it was a training frigate, but this kid probably uses Wikipedia as his main source of information. Its just annoying to see that people on Wiki start to classify frigates as corvettes, probably the young users.
2. Was there ever a plan to replace 364 with another training frigate? If so that should be many years ago.


A bonusvideo for you gentlemen...
(You can skip the first 1:30 minute)
Its seems to be a recent video of the KRI Teluk Kupang 519, probably one of the tests for beaching. Its remarkable that it can reach so far the beach, but maybe its almost empty.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Some recent trials of the KRI Posepo 870 and KRI Escolar 871. From which i understand these new patrolboats are from the 40 meter long PC-40 Pari Class, not the 44 m KCR-40 Clurit Class. There seems to be also another PC-40 class, the 40 m long glassfiber Viper Class, armed with old reclyced Soviet 25 mm twin guns. The first one (out of six) was commissioned in 2006, but two seems to be already retired, so i dont think it is a successful design.
Escolar and Viper....these name do not sound very Indonesian btw...

Contrary to the recycled 40 mm guns on the KCR-60 boats, new Oto Melara 30 mm Marlins are installed on the 870 and 871. Some other PC-40 Pari Class boats also have the 30 mm Marlin installed, but i dont know if all vessels of this class are armed with it.
 
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