Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

Discover Popular Videos | Facebook

Video is the place to enjoy videos and shows together. Watch the latest reels, discover original shows and catch up with your favorite creators.

fb.watch

TNI Day 5th October 1981. 42 years ago, and I remember watching this in TV after schooll as evening rerun (not live). This is the first large TNI demo on their anniversary day. That time it is the largest demo, and Soeharto use this as demo on his administration TNI rebuild, after most USSR build assets rundown in 70's.

This video being upload by Kris FB from Reuters file. Put it in this thread as shown some of TNI-AL assets that still also being use currently 42 years ahead from that time.

Shown much problem on TNI modernisation, despite all the talk this administration put in public.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Here we read that the Nakhoda Ragam/Bung Tomo class corvette which fired the MM40 Exocet Block III, was the recently upgraded KRI John Lie 358. So with this sinkex TNI-AL also tested and evaluated the new post-upgrade capabilities of KRI John Lie 358.

Indonesia validates post-upgrade missile capabilities of Bung Tomo frigate

The Indonesian Navy has marked the first firing of an Exocet MM40 Block 3 missile from a Bung Tomo-classfrigate, validating the upgrade works that have been carried out...

www.janes.com

 

[Ananda]

PT PAL teams up with MBDA to upgrade Indonesia's Bung Tomo class

Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL has inked a contract with European missile manufacturer MBDA to enhance the combat capabilities of all three frigates in the...

www.janes.com

This is article from Jane's that talk the length of upgrade being done for Bung Tomorrow class. Those three Light Frigates ex Brunai Nahkoda Ragam, basically being procured never been use by Brunai. However the systems already now two decade old and is already in time for MLU.

This close the speculation whether Turkish Havelsan or Danish Hensoldt will steal the MLU deal from Thales. Personally I do see those three will share the cake on TNI-AL Mordernisation projects, even on new builds. Still Thales seems going to get bigger share with the rest divided between Havelsan and Hensoldt. Leonardo can potentially get some, if Fincantieri manage to bag some deals (as now there's discussion being rumours to change FREMM deal to PPA).

Is still three electronic and sensors systems OEM, but for TNI standard, narrowing the suppliers from Euro Zone (well Havelsan still can be considered that), is already standardize move.

Add:
Information from Dutch Navesbu which being choose by PAL as their "consultant":

Mission system integration KRI Usman-Harun frigate - Nevesbu

Naval architects since 1935

www.nevesbu.com

From Navesbu 3D design, it is seems comfirm that Bung Tomo class VLS being change to VL MICA. This is good as this means the Short-Medium Range anti air VL, will be standardized with MICA. This is also good for TNI logistic foot print as TNI-AU with gaining Rafale and Mirage 2K more likely going to be MICA users.

It is going to be 12 VL cell for MICA. Similar load as what being put in Sigma 10514 Light Frigate. Potentially rumours also going to be similar with Sigma 9113 MLU later on.

 

[Ananda]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1691388828832215040

Couple days ago some Indonesian defense enthusiasts tweeter, put pictures on the progress of OPV90 in Noahtu Shipyard in Batam. Call it OPV, but if the specs are right, it is more corvette then OPV.

Rumours this OPV and Arrowhead 140 Frigate derivatives that PAL working on will have Havelsan sensors and electronics with Roketsan Missiles. Let's see how it is end up, but seems the rumours quite strong with unofficial backup from MinDef sources.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

PT PAL teams up with MBDA to upgrade Indonesia's Bung Tomo class

Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL has inked a contract with European missile manufacturer MBDA to enhance the combat capabilities of all three frigates in the...

www.janes.com

This is article from Jane's that talk the length of upgrade being done for Bung Tomorrow class. Those three Light Frigates ex Brunai Nahkoda Ragam, basically being procured never been use by Brunai. However the systems already now two decade old and is already in time for MLU.

This close the speculation whether Turkish Havelsan or Danish Hensoldt will steal the MLU deal from Thales. Personally I do see those three will share the cake on TNI-AL Mordernisation projects, even on new builds. Still Thales seems going to get bigger share with the rest divided between Havelsan and Hensoldt. Leonardo can potentially get some, if Fincantieri manage to bag some deals (as now there's discussion being rumours to change FREMM deal to PPA).

Is still three electronic and sensors systems OEM, but for TNI standard, narrowing the suppliers from Euro Zone (well Havelsan still can be considered that), is already standardize move.

Add:
Information from Dutch Navesbu which being choose by PAL as their "consultant":

Mission system integration KRI Usman-Harun frigate - Nevesbu

Naval architects since 1935

www.nevesbu.com

From Navesbu 3D design, it is seems comfirm that Bung Tomo class VLS being change to VL MICA. This is good as this means the Short-Medium Range anti air VL, will be standardized with MICA. This is also good for TNI logistic foot print as TNI-AU with gaining Rafale and Mirage 2K more likely going to be MICA users.

It is going to be 12 VL cell for MICA. Similar load as what being put in Sigma 10514 Light Frigate. Potentially rumours also going to be similar with Sigma 9113 MLU later on.

I have the feeling that autocorrection changed the name of the "Bung Tomo Class" in your text... :-D
But it will be indeed great if also the sensors and CMS will be similar/the same as the SIGMA 10514 frigates....

And i am curious how FFBNW the new OPV90 ships will be.

 

[Mainframe]

Just to digress slightly, muslim Indonesia's population is almost 10 times bigger than Australia and NZ combined, so should those two countries be worried, maybe not now but some years in the far future if perhaps an 'Indonesian Mahdi' should arise with ambitions to expand Islam southward?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Just to digress slightly, muslim Indonesia's population is almost 10 times bigger than Australia and NZ combined, so should those two countries be worried, maybe not now but some years in the far future if perhaps an 'Indonesian Mahdi' should arise with ambitions to expand Islam southward?


View attachment 50739

It is unlikely that Indonesia turns into some kind of ISIS-kingdom.
It is even less likely that Indonesia decides to invade Australia and New Zeeland in order to convert the people there.

But this is a thread about the Navy of Indonesia and its naval developments, so please discuss this in another thread.

 

[spoz]

From this Australian’s perspective, no. Indonesia has been a successful democracy for some time now; and, while certainly a Muslim state, it has large Hindu, Buddhist and even Christian minorities. They have their problems, both in Aceh and in the rest of the country, but the religious fanatics are not well regarded by the rest of the population who have a much more tolerant approach - and that tolerance seems to be a national trait. There’s probably more chance of Malaysia being a problem from that perspective in the long term - although I don’t really rate that as particularly high either.

 

[Ananda]

Militarily, Indonesia cease to be serious threat to Australia, after Sukarno down. The military build up and strategic weapon program of all administration after him are lag behind relative with what Australian defense program. Even still fall behind with Singapore ones.

As for Muslim hardlines, just to add @Sandhi Yudha point, the Muslim parties never got more than third of votes in elections so far. Those Muslim parties even the one that consider hard core, are relatives moderates for Middle East or South Asian standards. Besides even the most militant Muslim organization in ASEAN including Indonesia, only want to build 'Caliphate' in Predominantly Muslim area. They are not aiming to conquer and convert non Muslim.

 

[tonnyc]

(snip)
....
if perhaps an 'Indonesian Mahdi' should arise with ambitions to expand Islam southward?

(LOL) even the idea that Indonesia as a whole will willingly acknowledge one person as "The Mahdi" is ridiculous. I am not even talking about the non-muslim Indonesians noping out. But muslim Indonesians can't even agree on when Eid al Fitr is, and you are worried about them agreeing on a Messiah?

 

[Mainframe]

(LOL) even the idea that Indonesia as a whole will willingly acknowledge one person as "The Mahdi" is ridiculous...

Never say never..

 

[koxinga]

Never say never..

If you meant this as a joke, it falls flat. It suggest a level of ignorance on Indonesia (the whole Indonesia as a potential threat to Australia that sounded like something from the 50s) and Islam, in general on your part and it is not keeping inline with the purpose of this thread either.

 

[ngatimozart]

Never say never..

I strongly suggest that you deal in facts and cease winding people up. If you don't your time on here will be short.

 

[Ananda]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1668543447509213186

This tweet become talk in Indonesian enthusiasts. First because PAL are tight lips on the progress of their Arrowhead 140 derivatives project (Call Red-White Frigates), Second because the visit of UK Trade Envoy Richard Graham to PAL visiting this joint PAL-Babcock project is not being talk in media before.

Seems some Indonesian enthusiasts find this June Tweet, and realises it is shown the progress of the project. By this photo, it shown progress on Hull Modules. This seems to counter some online speculation in here from certain Frenchie Salesman that indicate Babcock-PAL Arrowhead 140 derivatives project is not progressing.

 

[Ananda]

Tinjau PT PAL Indonesia, Bappenas Optimis Industri Pertahanan Nasional Mampu Wujudkan Indonesia Emas

Surabaya (21/08) Kementerian Perencanaan Pembangunan Nasional Republik Inodnesia atau Badan Perencanaan Pembangunan Nasional (Bappenas), yang dimpimpin oleh Rezafaraby selaku Plt Direktur Pertahanan dan Keamanan Bappenas […]

www.pal.co.id

This is first time PAL officially shown progress with the Arrowhead 140 derivative Frigate project. This photo shown officials from Indonesia National Development Planning Bureau (Bapenas), visiting Frigate projects. This is the Bureau that basically give green lights to government projects.

Seems PAL decide to build the modules within enclosed facility. I suspect then later on they will move those modules outside to the open yard for final assembly. So seems typical naval modules construction method.

 

[Ananda]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1694924978482036930

Video on from PAL on Keel Laying ceremony for the first Red-White Frigate. PAL official site has not put the video, but seems some Indonesian Enthusiasts already got it, and put it online.

So far the schedule for this Arrowhead 140 derivative in PAL, still on track.

Add PAL Instagram and FB:

http://instagr.am/p/CwXBfyxu5hy/

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0NDa2ZXsavqRQ77NvDqbYw16Sp6SvikCQq5cyWs2wD6GULdShvbDQdMjzgnEeoMTnl&id=100066724609382&mibextid=CDWPTG

 

[ChestnutTree]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1668543447509213186

This tweet become talk in Indonesian enthusiasts. First because PAL are tight lips on the progress of their Arrowhead 140 derivatives project (Call Red-White Frigates), Second because the visit of UK Trade Envoy Richard Graham to PAL visiting this joint PAL-Babcock project is not being talk in media before.

Seems some Indonesian enthusiasts find this June Tweet, and realises it is shown the progress of the project. By this photo, it shown progress on Hull Modules. This seems to counter some online speculation in here from certain Frenchie Salesman that indicate Babcock-PAL Arrowhead 140 derivatives project is not progressing.

Wait that's what they are calling it? The Red & White class? Call me old school but it does sound a bit comical to me, it's like naming the first DDG(X) the USS Old Glory.

On a serious note, I do hope they would switch over to the Aster again over the Turkish equipment. To me if you're building what is pretty much the highest echelon of your naval BMD/AAW and surface warfare capabilities you shouldn't use it as a testbed for the latest of your own homegrown MIC political stunt.

And I say this because the navy had reportedly indicated it wants to have systems that they are familiar with vs. the new Havelsan products.

 

[Ananda]

The Red & White class? Call me old school but it does sound a bit comical to me, it's like naming the first DDG(X) the USS Old Glory.

Well, present PAL CEO seems quite have theatrical flare. He told the media he's suggesting to President in last indo defense the name. Seems he wants to emphasize this Frigate as PAL and Defend ID indigenous project (karya anak bangsa). I suspect this is more PAL Gimmick, TNI-AL has not give a name for lead ship (which usually become the name of the Class).

do hope they would switch over to the Aster again over the Turkish equipment.

This is all depends on budget and I do sense scope of Tech Diversification. It is potentially MBDA still got contract on Point Defense or Short Range missile for this Frigate. As TNI-AL so far standardise this range with Mistral and Mica.

However for Mid-Long range, do remember Roketsan HISAR already got the contract for Land Base Area Defense AA missile, not MBDA ASTER. I don't know for sure if this is motivated more due to budget or tech transfer reason. However if Naval Area Defense also being given to HISAR, there's some logistical reason on that.

Logistics footprint never been the main reasons honestly in Indonesian MinDef/TNI procurement. So I suspect the other reason on budget or tech transfer or simply Politics (or combination), make more compounding reason on that. Still so far as we know the notices that come out from MinDef indicate Havelsan and Roketsan that have more share in this Frigate system and armament make up. Still with MDBA abilities to lobby, who knows.

Add:
Official video from PAL on the Keel Laying ceremony. Seems this ship going to get hull number 304 (?). PAL also put emphasis of length 140m, seems want to shown the derivative design different with standard Babcock Arrowhead 140 which has 138m length.

PT PAL Indonesia bersama dengan pemerintah dalam hal ini Kementerian Pertahanan RI berkomitmen untuk memperkuat Alutsista Matra Laut untuk menjaga kedaulatan negara. Salah satunya melalui pembangunan Kapal Frigate Merah Putih ke-1 yang saat ini tengah memasuki tahapan Keel Laying. Keel Laying merupakan satu dari empat milestone penting dalam proses pembangunan kapal yang juga sebagai momen penanda hari kelahiran kapal, diawali dengan pembuatan rangka lunas kapal. #SobatPAL saksikan secara lengkap recap kegiatan Seremoni Keel Laying Kapal Frigate Merah Putih ke-1 dan mari kita dukung bersama pembangunan kapal perang unggulan yang dibangun oleh industri pertahanan nasional #PTPALIndonesia #HomeofIndonesianFrigate #WorldClassCompany | PT PAL Indonesia | PT PAL Indonesia · Original audio

PT PAL Indonesia bersama dengan pemerintah dalam hal ini Kementerian Pertahanan RI berkomitmen untuk memperkuat Alutsista Matra Laut untuk menjaga kedaulatan negara. Salah satunya melalui pembangunan...

www.facebook.com

YouTube version:

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Well, present PAL CEO seems quite have theatrical flare. He told the media he's suggesting to President in last indo defense the name. Seems he wants to emphasize this Frigate as PAL and Defend ID indigenous project (karya anak bangsa). I suspect this is more PAL Gimmick, TNI-AL has not give a name for lead ship (which usually become the name of the Class).




This is all depends on budget and I do sense scope of Tech Diversification. It is potentially MBDA still got contract on Point Defense or Short Range missile for this Frigate. As TNI-AL so far standardise this range with Mistral and Mica.

However for Mid-Long range, do remember Roketsan HISAR already got the contract for Land Base Area Defense AA missile, not MBDA ASTER. I don't know for sure if this is motivated more due to budget or tech transfer reason. However if Naval Area Defense also being given to HISAR, there's some logistical reason on that.

Logistics footprint never been the main reasons honestly in Indonesian MinDef/TNI procurement. So I suspect the other reason on budget or tech transfer or simply Politics (or combination), make more compounding reason on that. Still so far as we know the notices that come out from MinDef indicate Havelsan and Roketsan that have more share in this Frigate system and armament make up. Still with MDBA abilities to lobby, who knows.

Add:
Official video from PAL on the Keel Laying ceremony. Seems this ship going to get hull number 304 (?). PAL also put emphasis of length 140m, seems want to shown the derivative design different with standard Babcock Arrowhead 140 which has 138m length.

PT PAL Indonesia bersama dengan pemerintah dalam hal ini Kementerian Pertahanan RI berkomitmen untuk memperkuat Alutsista Matra Laut untuk menjaga kedaulatan negara. Salah satunya melalui pembangunan Kapal Frigate Merah Putih ke-1 yang saat ini tengah memasuki tahapan Keel Laying. Keel Laying merupakan satu dari empat milestone penting dalam proses pembangunan kapal yang juga sebagai momen penanda hari kelahiran kapal, diawali dengan pembuatan rangka lunas kapal. #SobatPAL saksikan secara lengkap recap kegiatan Seremoni Keel Laying Kapal Frigate Merah Putih ke-1 dan mari kita dukung bersama pembangunan kapal perang unggulan yang dibangun oleh industri pertahanan nasional #PTPALIndonesia #HomeofIndonesianFrigate #WorldClassCompany | PT PAL Indonesia | PT PAL Indonesia · Original audio

PT PAL Indonesia bersama dengan pemerintah dalam hal ini Kementerian Pertahanan RI berkomitmen untuk memperkuat Alutsista Matra Laut untuk menjaga kedaulatan negara. Salah satunya melalui pembangunan...

www.facebook.com

YouTube version:

Thank you for sharing.
Its nice to read that at least the construction of the Iver Huitfeldts are more or less on schedule, even they will be delivered in FFBNW-configuration and the details of the final outfitting is not yet clear.

It is just unclear for me why the first one will get the number "304", like we have frigates with the numbers 301-303 in service. The last vessel with "304" was the KRI Sultan Iskandar Muda, ex-Bezzavetny, a Project 30bis destroyer, retired from service in 1973.

 

[Ananda]

Who knows perhaps 300-303 being reserved for FREMM? (Well MinDef still say FREMM plan still on). Anyway if 304 really become the hull number, then it is shown for TNI-AL perspective the large Frigate using the number that used to be taken by Destroyers. In sense if we see relative functions, those Skory's are doing mostly what large frigate presently do.

Mengenal Arti Nomor Lambung Kapal Perang Milik TNI AL...

Keberadaan KRI menjadi salah satu alutsista penting bagi jajaran TNI Angkatan Laut, dalam melaksanakan operasi pengamanan wilayah laut Indonesia.

amp.kompas.com

All hull number begin with #3 belong to Escort Surface ships (Eskorta) which in here include Frigate, Light Frigate and Corvette. #2 use to allocate for some Destroyers including some Skory. However mostly it is reserve for that one Cruiser (Sverdlov). Perhaps if later on TNI-AL got large AAW Destroyers in the range of ROKN KDX-III or JMSDF Maya, then perhaps hull number #2 being reinvented again.