Effect of the massive Saudi military purchases on the region?

[surpreme]

After reading about the $60 billion dollar deal. The Saudis finally received a good deal. The 84 F-15SA (saudi advanced) has better radar and better weapons. The Saudi finally received a good deal one that's not to water down. The Saudi will have over 100 F-15 updated version. Seen like the Saudi got a good deal this time 12 are to remain in US at Mountain Home Air Base where they conduct pilot training. Saudi pilots will be training in US great deal. Once this training is complete Saudi Air Force F-15's can operate with US Air Force.

 

[Beatmaster]

Lets say hypothetical could SA being used as a staging region to assist Israel if things go sour?
Or might this be a "under the table shake hand" towards Israel to improve relations and to deal with a common treat.
I personally believe that at this very point (Without the new toys) SA is already a major player next to Israel, and Iran.
So the only thing at this point that they need to worry about is Iran.
And as some have said if Iran wanted to try something then SA has the ability to stop them.
Obviously improvement is always welcome so SA will do good with the new toys but imo its a bit to much for them considering that they are already well defended.

 

[surpreme]

Lets say hypothetical could SA being used as a staging region to assist Israel if things go sour?
Or might this be a "under the table shake hand" towards Israel to improve relations and to deal with a common treat.
I personally believe that at this very point (Without the new toys) SA is already a major player next to Israel, and Iran.
So the only thing at this point that they need to worry about is Iran.
And as some have said if Iran wanted to try something then SA has the ability to stop them.
Obviously improvement is always welcome so SA will do good with the new toys but imo its a bit to much for them considering that they are already well defended.

I don't see a Saudi and Israelis joint attack on Iran. I do see US and Saudi forces together hitting Iranian targets when a new threat or crisis from Iran. I wouldn't put Saudi in a league with Israel yet after they get this deal done and the Saudi pilots and maintainance crews that train in US arrive back in Saudi Arabia. Until the Palestine issue is resolved I don't see any real improvement in Israel-Saudi relations. I must point out any modern military must learn to use it own equipment and maintain it on it own. That what makes Israelis in a league of it own in the Middle East. The only one I see that close to the Israelis is Iran it maintain its own equipment but its weapons are old.

 

[Beatmaster]

I don't see a Saudi and Israelis joint attack on Iran. I do see US and Saudi forces together hitting Iranian targets when a new threat or crisis from Iran. I wouldn't put Saudi in a league with Israel yet after they get this deal done and the Saudi pilots and maintainance crews that train in US arrive back in Saudi Arabia. Until the Palestine issue is resolved I don't see any real improvement in Israel-Saudi relations. I must point out any modern military must learn to use it own equipment and maintain it on it own. That what makes Israelis in a league of it own in the Middle East. The only one I see that close to the Israelis is Iran it maintain its own equipment but its weapons are old.

I see , well its not that i put SA in the same league as Israel.
But what Israel has on military power the Saudi makes up by size, numbers and money. Its not like Netanyahu says let crack some SA early in the morning.
But the help that SA can provide to Israel and vise versa could be a kick start to deeper talks.
Just saying.

 

[STURM]

Saudi pilots will be training in US great deal. Once this training is complete Saudi Air Force F-15's can operate with US Air Force.

Well the same was said before combat operations during the 1st Gulf War but it was found that the Saudis were not as capable as they were thought to be, despite the billions spent on arms and Western training. Granted, things may have changed over the years but unfortunately it will take a war for us to found out how the Saudis perform. Ken Pollack's 'Arabs at War' has an excellent chapter on Saudi combat performance.

 

[Beatmaster]

Well the same was said before combat operations during the 1st Gulf War but it was found that the Saudis were not as capable as they were thought to be, despite the billions spent on arms and Western training. Granted, things may have changed over the years but unfortunately it will take a war for us to found out how the Saudis perform. Ken Pollack's 'Arabs at War' has an excellent chapter on Saudi combat performance.

We got a saying in the Netherlands:

Give a monkey a golden ring, but it remains a ugly thing.
Play some music for the monkey, but that does not mean it can dance.

Which basically mean, you can have shoes but that does not mean you can walk.
It may look shiny but as long you do not know how to use it it remains just crap.

And this seems to be the case with SA, they have alot of shiny stuff but no real use of it.

 

[T.C.P]

I see , well its not that i put SA in the same league as Israel.
But what Israel has on military power the Saudi makes up by size, numbers and money. Its not like Netanyahu says let crack some SA early in the morning.
But the help that SA can provide to Israel and vise versa could be a kick start to deeper talks.
Just saying.

Yeah, I can just imagine the Saudi public reaction on a joint SA and Israeli strike and of course not to mention the reaction of the oh so calm and logical muftis.

 

[Beatmaster]

Yeah, I can just imagine the Saudi public reaction on a joint SA and Israeli strike and of course not to mention the reaction of the oh so calm and logical muftis.

Offtopic: Why are SA and Israel on hostile terms with each other?

 

[STURM]

Offtopic: Why are SA and Israel on hostile terms with each other?

There has actually unofficial contacts over the years between both countries using intermediaries on the sharing of intel and other mutual areas of concern. The main issue here is the Palestine/Israeli problem and the failure to achieve a peace deal. A few years ago Saudi Arabia, on behalf of the Arab world, presented a peace deal to Israel that would have included diplomatic and trade ties if a deal could have been worked out. Saudi is the most influential and richest of Arab states, the guardian of the 2 holy places and the 'leader' of the Arab world, so it is only natural that the unresolved Palestine/Israeli problem remains a stumbling block to normal relations. Just to add something else - a key Israeli demand is the matter of official recognition of Israel by Arab countries. The main problem for the Arabs is which Israel to recognise in terms of borders, that of 1948 or that of 1967 and that any official recognition of Israel would mean acceptance of Israel's hold on occupied territory.

 

[Beatmaster]

There have actually unofficial contacts over the years between both countries. The main issue here is the Palestine/Israeli problem and the failure to achieve a peace deal. A few years ago Saudi Arabia, on behalf of the Arab world, presented a peace deal to Israel that would have included diplomatic and trade ties in a deal could have been worked out. Saudi is the most influential and richest of Arab states and the guardian of the 2 holy places, so it is only natural that the unresolved Palestine/Israeli problem remains a stumbling block to normal relations.

Alright thx .

I do not know that SA did try to solve it.

 

[T.C.P]

Offtopic: Why are SA and Israel on hostile terms with each other?

Because most Saudi Arabians are fed that every single problem in the world is caused by the evil juice in Israel.

 

[STURM]

Because most Saudi Arabians are fed that every single problem in the world is caused by the evil juice in Israel.

Lets not get too off-topic and political here shall we? And to be objective, the Arabs are equally to blame for the troubles in the Middle East.

 

[T.C.P]

Lets not get too off-topic and political here shall we? And to be objective, the Arabs are equally to blame for the troubles in the Middle East.

Did not mean to go off topic, was just explaining, why Arabs would protest a SA-Israel joint strike.

PS-Was not blaming it all on Israel, was explaining how most Arabs view Israel.

 

[Beatmaster]

Alright back on topic.
Now SA gets new toys its reasonable to assume they will start some training program to get custom to their new toys right?
How would that be seen by Iran?
Ill bet that Iran has trouble with seeing Tanks participating in large exercises but seeing fully fledged Leopard 2a7 MBT's (From germany) backed by their new F-15's would give the average Irani gray hair i believe.

Hypothetical speaking how would SA do against Iran if it would come to a full confrontation? specially with the new toys?

And what would be the reaction from Iran knowing that SA has new toys to trow around with?

 

[T.C.P]

Alright back on topic.
Now SA gets new toys its reasonable to assume they will start some training program to get custom to their new toys right?
How would that be seen by Iran?
Ill bet that Iran has trouble with seeing Tanks participating in large exercises but seeing fully fledged Leopard 2a7 MBT's (From germany) backed by their new F-15's would give the average Irani gray hair i believe.

Hypothetical speaking how would SA do against Iran if it would come to a full confrontation? specially with the new toys?

And what would be the reaction from Iran knowing that SA has new toys to trow around with?

Depends on how well SA maintains and operates its tanks and other fancy equipment in the heat of war. I can see SA easily keeping the skies clear of any Iranian fighter, but I am not sure ho well their infantry and armour will do, head on head against a determined Iranian land force.

 

[Beatmaster]

Depends on how well SA maintains and operates its tanks and other fancy equipment in the heat of war. I can see SA easily keeping the skies clear of any Iranian fighter, but I am not sure ho well their infantry and armour will do, head on head against a determined Iranian land force.

I see well you got a point there, however i believe its save to say that those Leo's + the added air superiority provided by F15's will add a great deal of problems for Iran.

One a side note i heard that Iran has actually 2 armies, 1 mainstream army who has been given second priority and somewhat second grade weapons while they maintain a elite army who has the best of the best that Iran could offer them (Within their industry and budged.)
Would those elites cause trouble? Or are they just elevated boy scouts?

 

[STURM]

Depends on how well SA maintains and operates its tanks and other fancy equipment in the heat of war.

Saudi Arabia has large numbers of Western contractors to help maintain their high tech equipment. Army units also had Pakistani and other nationals, following them in the field to conduct basic maintenance, such as changing dust filters in tanks, etc. In the 1980's there was a whole Pakistani combat brigade [consisting of units from the 7th Division and the Frontier Force] paid for and equipped by the Saudis.

 

[T.C.P]

I see well you got a point there, however i believe its save to say that those Leo's + the added air superiority provided by F15's will add a great deal of problems for Iran.

One a side note i heard that Iran has actually 2 armies, 1 mainstream army who has been given second priority and somewhat second grade weapons while they maintain a elite army who has the best of the best that Iran could offer them (Within their industry and budged.)
Would those elites cause trouble? Or are they just elevated boy scouts?

I think you mean the Republican guard or IRGC, well these guys are more meant for keeping control of the country and covert ops, then actual fighting. The IRGC is mostly divided into two groups-one paramilitary force and another highly elite core force, mostly meant for covert ops.


The Saudis on the other hand maintain two armies, the Saudi national guard is huge and equipped with better weaponry than the army, all though they lack tanks. Like the IRGCs, they are mostly meant as guardians of the ruling regime.

 

[Beatmaster]

Saudi Arabia has large numbers of Western contractors to help maintain their high tech equipment. Army units also had Pakistani and other nationals, following them in the field to conduct basic maintenance, such as changing dust filters in tanks, etc. In the 1980's there was a whole Pakistani combat brigade paid foe and equipped by the Saudis.

Really?
I am not sure how much it would take to properly maintain those MBT's specially with the environment like sun and sand but what i know the dutch did disband them due budget cuts as they seem horrible expensive to maintain on the highest level.
So how would SA maintain them? Or is money and Training / Maintenance not an issue to them?
I mean i am not believing that they would put first class units into a depot and let it rot there till some foe rings their doorbell or some exercise is being planned.

 

[T.C.P]

Saudi Arabia has large numbers of Western contractors to help maintain their high tech equipment. Army units also had Pakistani and other nationals, following them in the field to conduct basic maintenance, such as changing dust filters in tanks, etc. In the 1980's there was a whole Pakistani combat brigade [consisting of units from the 7th Division and the Frontier Force] paid for and equipped by the Saudis.

Well will these contractors take part in a very heated Saudi-Iran war? If they do and are able to function and do their jobs properly, then SA will be able to use their new toys to the maximum and Iran will have a hard time there.