Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[ngatimozart]

I want to make it clear once again, that I in no way condone or excuse any war crimes, particularly ego based killings on the battlefield. If guilty, then all involved should be prosecuted. My post was only in response to ngati regarding can I think of any other time war crimes were committed by Aussie forces. My answer is yes.
In response to this post, I find it very hard to not be argumentative, as my Grandfather told a story to me about his transit to Canada in WW2. They were on ship as part of a convoy. The ship was intercepted by a U boat, which other ships had forced to surface with depth charges. Once on the surface, the U boat was sunk with 37mm AA guns. I have two of the shells. There were no survivors and the convoy did not slow down. As per the procedure. Many men thought that the survivors of the U boat should have been taken when it first surfaced.
As for the battle of wareo, Japs preferred suicide to capture. Yes , ever heard of the Cowra breakout? There was only 1Jap survivor 431 killed with no wounded? So your answer is pretty much this....No chance of any executions here, we are just very good shots, and all the wounded Japs killed themselves, except one who we captured. Case closed.

We had an incident at a POW camp in Featherstone during WW2 where some Japanese POWs were shot by guards during a riot. Can't remember the full details. There have also been allegations that a senior officer of a 2nd NZ Division Battalion had some German POWs shot during the Italian campaign. The allegations had been strenuously denied by the officer involved and as far as I aware no official investigation was ever held. Most, if not all, of the members of the particular Battalion will have passed away by now.

 

[Rob c]

We had an incident at a POW camp in Featherstone during WW2 where some Japanese POWs were shot by guards during a riot. Can't remember the full details. There have also been allegations that a senior officer of a 2nd NZ Division Battalion had some German POWs shot during the Italian campaign. The allegations had been strenuously denied by the officer involved and as far as I aware no official investigation was ever held. Most, if not all, of the members of the particular Battalion will have passed away by now.

49 prisoners and one guard died in the incident when newly arrived prisoners refused to work, which started off as a sit-down but after a warning shot was fired deteriorated into a riot. It was later thought to be a result of cultural differences being miss understood.

 

[Navor86]

Some key points from the brief:
- 1 Bde is to be split in two to create a fourth combat brigade. The elements currently in Darwin will remain part of 1 Bde, while those in Adelaide will become part of 9 Bde, forming an integrated (ARES/ARA) brigade. 1 Bde will become a light amphibious brigade, with 4 RAR being re-raised as a mirror of 2 RAR. 9 Bde will become a mech heavy brigade with 1 Armd Regt and 7 RAR, as well as 9 Regt equipped with SPGs and 9 Field Squadron equipped with the L8160 combat engineering vehicles.

Sorry, if I have missed the answer.

But what exactly is the benefit of re-raising 4 RAR if you basically just adding around 300 Soldiers to this Pre-Landing Force?
If I understand correctly the Role of 2 RAR is being an Reconaissance Force with the added option of small scale raids, thanks to the added Infantry company. A doubling of this Force would bring the unit back to the manpower levels of a traditional Infantry Bn.

(On a side note: I am from Germany, so as we structure our Army differently to ADF, I might not have taken some aspects not into consideration, that might be relevant to the Aussie concept and theatre of operation)

 

[Stampede]

Sorry, if I have missed the answer.

But what exactly is the benefit of re-raising 4 RAR if you basically just adding around 300 Soldiers to this Pre-Landing Force?
If I understand correctly the Role of 2 RAR is being an Reconaissance Force with the added option of small scale raids, thanks to the added Infantry company. A doubling of this Force would bring the unit back to the manpower levels of a traditional Infantry Bn.

(On a side note: I am from Germany, so as we structure our Army differently to ADF, I might not have taken some aspects not into consideration, that might be relevant to the Aussie concept and theatre of operation)

Looks like the following link may clarify ARMYs future ORBAT.

ARMY RESTRUCTURE AUSTRALIA: - Veteranweb

The Australian Army will undergo a massive reorganisation in the next eight years which will see additional combat brigades raised, […]

www.veteranweb.asn.au

Suggest treat it as a concept at this stage.
None the less, certainly some interesting dynamics in the proposed future structure.


Regards S

 

[Gryphinator]

I know not to pay too much attention to the newspapers on defence matters, but can anyone shed some light on the tyre issue with the Hawkei?
(Townsville Bulletin)

Cheers

 

[Navor86]

Looks like the following link may clarify ARMYs future ORBAT.

ARMY RESTRUCTURE AUSTRALIA: - Veteranweb

The Australian Army will undergo a massive reorganisation in the next eight years which will see additional combat brigades raised, […]

www.veteranweb.asn.au

Suggest treat it as a concept at this stage.
None the less, certainly some interesting dynamics in the proposed future structure.


Regards S

Thanks, but the link is not working. Either Error 404 or "Website coming soon". A search via google also gave no results

 

[Milne Bay]

I know not to pay too much attention to the newspapers on defence matters, but can anyone shed some light on the tyre issue with the Hawkei?
(Townsville Bulletin)

Cheers

Can it really not be fitted with a spare tyre?
Doesn't this strike one as an oversight at the very least?
Perhaps the journalist is wrong and hasn't got the facts straight.
MB

 

[Anthony_B_78]

Thanks, but the link is not working. Either Error 404 or "Website coming soon". A search via google also gave no results

Worked for me, though it was mostly the same as what has been stated earlier in this thread.

 

[old faithful]

Looks like the following link may clarify ARMYs future ORBAT.

ARMY RESTRUCTURE AUSTRALIA: - Veteranweb

The Australian Army will undergo a massive reorganisation in the next eight years which will see additional combat brigades raised, […]

www.veteranweb.asn.au

Suggest treat it as a concept at this stage.
None the less, certainly some interesting dynamics in the proposed future structure.


Regards S

An extra company for 1 Commando Regt must have been on the cards for a long time.
Brisbane has been earmarked for the 3rd company, I would have thought that Perth might have been considered.

 

[Stampede]

An extra company for 1 Commando Regt must have been on the cards for a long time.
Brisbane has been earmarked for the 3rd company, I would have thought that Perth might have been considered.

Perth now has a population of 2 million so maybe enough of a base to raised a commando Coy.
Also a proposed push to beef up the army out West may see some traction, but suspect it will be enough of a task to establish a Coy in QLD first.
Takes time to raise and train an individual commando yet alone a full company; however I still support the your proposal.

Not sure what the total size of the special forces are currently but for Wiki.
Gain one reserve commando company but maybe lose one SASR Sqn?

Anyway I'd speculate intentions and reality will fluctuate in the decade ahead


Regards S

 

[old faithful]

I suspect 2 Sqn will just change names to 5 (or the Sqn formally known as 2),or the other Sqns wil gain an extra troop or 2.
Lots of ex SASR guys in WA who could probably be talked into reserve duty in a Cdo company.

 

[Stampede]

I suspect 2 Sqn will just change names to 5 (or the Sqn formally known as 2),or the other Sqns wil gain an extra troop or 2.
Lots of ex SASR guys in WA who could probably be talked into reserve duty in a Cdo company.

I am unsure if the intent is to reduce the number of SASR Sqns or if the the Sqn number ( Two ) of the SASR is to be deleted or re numbered.


Regards S

 

[Boagrius]

A few updates in the latest DTR magazine:

- On LAND 400 Ph 3: the MSV variant is now out due largely to the purchase of M1150 under LAND 8160 Ph1, and an Armoured Mortar vehicle (AMV), Mortar Ammunition Vehicle (MAV) and Armoured Logistics Vehicle (ALV) are now in.

- A solid overview of the new NASAMS capability, to be based initially around the AIM120C-7 as the primary effector. It has me wondering whether this system will have to evolve rapidly in the emerging threat environment, as events in Nagorno Karabakh have highlighted. The AMRAAM is a fine weapon and all, but the C model is aging, and far from an ideal fit when dealing with small UAVs and loitering munitions. Perhaps a mix of something like the recently demonstrated Lower-AD interceptor (for smaller targets) combined with AMRAAM-ER (for larger fixed & rotary wings) would provide more flexibility down the track. Time shall tell.

 

[Volkodav]

A few updates in the latest DTR magazine:

- On LAND 400 Ph 3: the MSV variant is now out due largely to the purchase of M1150 under LAND 8160 Ph1, and an Armoured Mortar vehicle (AMV), Mortar Ammunition Vehicle (MAV) and Armoured Logistics Vehicle (ALV) are now in.

- A solid overview of the new NASAMS capability, to be based initially around the AIM120C-7 as the primary effector. It has me wondering whether this system will have to evolve rapidly in the emerging threat environment, as events in Nagorno Karabakh have highlighted. The AMRAAM is a fine weapon and all, but the C model is aging, and far from an ideal fit when dealing with small UAVs and loitering munitions. Perhaps a mix of something like the recently demonstrated Lower-AD interceptor (for smaller targets) combined with AMRAAM-ER (for larger fixed & rotary wings) would provide more flexibility down the track. Time shall tell.

I recall reading that AIM-9X and ESSM are both expected to be adapted to the system. ESSM apparently has an envolope in SM-1MR territory (far superior close in) and the Block II out performs older area air defence missiles and may even have a limited ABM capability.

 

[Boagrius]

I recall reading that AIM-9X and ESSM are both expected to be adapted to the system. ESSM apparently has an envolope in SM-1MR territory (far superior close in) and the Block II out performs older area air defence missiles and may even have a limited ABM capability.

Yes I think the Block I ESSM was tested with NASAMS years ago, so it would seem like a no-brainer to integrate the active Block II version. Strikes me as a more sensible weapon for the job than AMRAAM, which is a bit of an awkward fit in the SAM role.

 

[hairyman]

There was some talk on manufacturing the ESSM here in Australia. Anything further on that?

 

[Boagrius]

Not to my knowledge. I think BAE Aust had a role in manufacturing some of the TVC components but that's about it.

 

[ngatimozart]

IIRC the Spike ER or LR missile is going to being license built in Australia. Since the manufacturing capability is being set up for that, then it may be feasible to use that facility to license build the ESSM Blk 2.

 

[CB90]

IIRC the Spike ER or LR missile is going to being license built in Australia. Since the manufacturing capability is being set up for that, then it may be feasible to use that facility to license build the ESSMZ Blk 2.

ESSM is an international Consortium.

Manufacturing has been spread across the international body deliberately, nobody, not even the US fully produces the entire missile, although Raytheon US is responsible for the final product integration and delivery.

 

[Depot Dog]

The force structure plan 2020 section 9.21 mentions "Defense will explore options to assure the supply of larger critical munitions including propellants and missiles. This will present an opportunities for Australian industry". This has been pushed by Jim Molan and hasten from Covid logistics lessons.